Lower Reaches - Fireball fails to destroy 6 gibberlings
arthur05
Member Posts: 28
why would a fireball from a wand of fire fail to destroy utterly a group of 6 gibberlings in the Lower Reaches below the Cult of the Unseeing Eye as part of the retrieval of the first half of the rod.?
lettuce go back to Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn (original; sold 100,000+ copies) and either:
A. leave it there
or
B. call the original coding team to make any upgrades or improvements "if necessary" because
"if there's a problem with a fireball and 6 gibberlings, there are 1000 other problems"
a Fireball does 6d6 pts of damage
the lowly gibberling only has 8 hp
"2 out of 6 gibberlings were still alive with 1hp or something"
the game is unplayable.
update
apparently, 4 of them were mutated gibberlings at 16hp
low and behold 2 of them rolled crit 20 and made save vs. wand for 1/2 dmg
with their lowly saving throw value of 16 save vs. wands
I think you need to roll 17 or higher to make the saving throw rolling a d20
"it's a gibberling. it's not going to make the saving throw."
record
Mutated Gibberling: takes 23 fire damage
Mutated Gibberling: Death.
Gibberling: takes 19 fire damage fr
Gibberling: Death.
Gibberling: takes 29 fire damage fr
Gibberling: Death.
Mutated Gibberling: takes 26 fire damage fr
Mutated Gibberling: Death.
Mutated Gibberling: Save vs. Wand: 20
Mutated Gibberling: takes 15 fire damage fr
Mutated Gibberling: Save vs. Wand: 20
Mutated Gibberling: takes 13 fire damage fr
The Party has gained experience: 15
The Party has gained experience: 35
The Party has gained experience: 35
The Party has gained experience: 15
remaining Mutated Gibberling: takes 8 missile damage fr
Mutated Gibberling: Death.
The Party has gained experience: 15
remaining Mutated Gibberling: takes 3 missile damage fr
Mutated Gibberling: Death.
The Party has gained experience: 15
PS
Do You Know What a DUNGEON MASTER Looks Like.?
lettuce go back to Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn (original; sold 100,000+ copies) and either:
A. leave it there
or
B. call the original coding team to make any upgrades or improvements "if necessary" because
"if there's a problem with a fireball and 6 gibberlings, there are 1000 other problems"
a Fireball does 6d6 pts of damage
the lowly gibberling only has 8 hp
"2 out of 6 gibberlings were still alive with 1hp or something"
the game is unplayable.
update
apparently, 4 of them were mutated gibberlings at 16hp
low and behold 2 of them rolled crit 20 and made save vs. wand for 1/2 dmg
with their lowly saving throw value of 16 save vs. wands
I think you need to roll 17 or higher to make the saving throw rolling a d20
"it's a gibberling. it's not going to make the saving throw."
record
Mutated Gibberling: takes 23 fire damage
Mutated Gibberling: Death.
Gibberling: takes 19 fire damage fr
Gibberling: Death.
Gibberling: takes 29 fire damage fr
Gibberling: Death.
Mutated Gibberling: takes 26 fire damage fr
Mutated Gibberling: Death.
Mutated Gibberling: Save vs. Wand: 20
Mutated Gibberling: takes 15 fire damage fr
Mutated Gibberling: Save vs. Wand: 20
Mutated Gibberling: takes 13 fire damage fr
The Party has gained experience: 15
The Party has gained experience: 35
The Party has gained experience: 35
The Party has gained experience: 15
remaining Mutated Gibberling: takes 8 missile damage fr
Mutated Gibberling: Death.
The Party has gained experience: 15
remaining Mutated Gibberling: takes 3 missile damage fr
Mutated Gibberling: Death.
The Party has gained experience: 15
PS
Do You Know What a DUNGEON MASTER Looks Like.?
Post edited by arthur05 on
0
Comments
Mutated Gibberlings, although still weak, are tougher than the gibberlings we're used to from Baldur's Gate 1. They have 16 Hit Points.
2(two) staggering away I began to analyze it
the math was Wrong and,
the question of the DUNGEON MASTER has occurred as well
they don't understand it
something as simple as roll 1 x d20
if you take a [physical] d20 and cast 1 roll that is acceptable or agreed upon
"the program does not include physics or series"
here is the operation
the computer program has to roll a d20 and "has to do the exact same thing as the real thing" and this is open to debate because "God doesn't play dice"
then the math is right, the program is correct
1. everybody here will agree on the number that comes up when we roll a physical die 20
a. seemingly it could be any number from 1 - 20, 5% chance each
b. there is a "balance of probabilities" there in a (series) of a group of numbers though
start at 10 left or right, the extremes are unlikely
I'll go 60% median with you
Anyway, your example is not something unbelievable, and absolutely could happen. Not a programmer, but i think before blaming them, you would need to do at least 1000 fireballs at the same gibberling rave party in order to say something about pseudo-random in this game.
With a 6d6 wand fireball, a 16 HP mutated gibberling will survive approximately 9.6% of the time if it fails its save and 95.4% of the time if it makes its save.
With a 10d6 caster fireball, a 16 HP mutated gibberling will survive approximately never if it fails its save and 30.5% of the time if it makes its save.
A wand of fire isn't all that impressive in BG2. If you really want to kill enemies, the most generally useful wands are lightning and cloudkill. One shot of the cloudkill wand is guaranteed to instantly kill that whole pack.
"also it would appear the computer allows a save on or above the saving throw of 16 for the gibberling in this instance here"
I could swear with a save vs wands of 16 you have to roll a 17 or greater
there must be a brief argument here then between D&D rules and let us say W&W rules
well 6d6 is 36, Theoretical Maximum
even the mutated gibberling at 16 hp is (less than half of that), thus the group is wiped out in the first
as for making saving throws the gibberling has a save vs wands of 16 as we've already mentioned. 1 roll of a d20 with a median of 60% spread starting from 10 puts your greatest roll at 16 and your lowest roll at 4 on average, a slight majority of the time, which means not a single gibberling made their saving throw.
that's a good point about the fireball scroll being 10d6 and the upcoming tip on the invoker is a good one but,
a group of gibberlings are the least impressive group of enemies in all of Baldur's Gate or 2
No, 16 is the roll required to 'make' the save. There are a few modifiers though. I'm pretty sure the -2 saving throw penalty for an invoker applies to the save even though it's from a wand (also the +2 bonus to the save would apply if it was used on an invoker). Any bonus to fire damage would also be added (ie: +10% to fire damage from Robe of Red Flames).
4 mutated gibberlings and
2 lowly gibberlings
wouldn't you say the balance of probabilities favoured this outcome to begin with or not.?
(and the 1st encounter is most important, not the 4th encounter or trial afterall)
"a Mutated Gibberling does not have 16 hp" "It has 14 hp"
DUNGEON MASTER
(From the Adventurer's Guide)
"Saving Throws
Saving Throws are a character’s resistance to special types of attacks—poisons, magic, and attacks affecting the whole body or mind of the character. A character’s Saving Throw value behaves in much the same way as THAC0; when a character makes a Saving Throw, their d20 roll must meet or exceed their Saving Throw score for the effect being resisted...."
Comparing to what the PHB says for 2E
"Rolling Saving Throws
To make a saving throw, a player rolls a 20-sided die (1d20). The result must be equal to or greater than the character's saving throw number. "
Where events do have a low probability on any given occurrence, you do need to bear in mind the number of occurrences to get a feel for the importance of that event. For instance I play no-reload solo games, which means a death for my character ends the game. In melee fights I have a rule of thumb that I won't pay too much attention to the combat when the enemy needs 2 criticals or more to kill me. If I'm not paying close attention though (playing at 60 fps), there's a good chance I will not be able to react in time after an enemy gets one critical, to take evasive action before they get another attack in - and if that's also a critical death may follow.
On the face of it the chance of getting two criticals in a row (0.25% for most enemies in unmodded, though playing with SCS quite a few have weapon style proficiencies boosting the chance to 1%) seems very low. However, in a fight with tougher opponents they can get many attacks during the combat. There will also be many hundreds of combats in a full run (BGEE, SoD, BG2EE). That means there will almost certainly be quite a few occasions during a run where enemies get 2 criticals in a row. Thus, even though the chance of this occurring at any particular time is small, it's not a factor you should ignore if you really want to be successful in a no-reload run (that partly explains why I'm very rarely successful
it's very difficult to translate a physical die roll into a computer program
though at this point I almost prefer the computer programs roll of d20 to the roll of the physical d20, Theoretically
1. 16hp is less than half of 6d6 36 thus the group was wiped out in the first
the first point is or appears to be on the "balance of probabilities" or proportions
2. the second point has to do with saving throws, the computer program for a d20 roll and, the dividing line
"if you paint a picture 1000 times it's going to look very similar most of the time (especially during the 1st(First) encounter)" and,
what is that similar picture.? all 6 died and not even 1 made their "saving throw",
they will appear if you reload
probably depends upon the level of your group, it's possibly scaled or something
the minimum may also be another consideration
6 x 1's = 6
For example, here are my thoughts when trying to make sense of the above post.
Why 19? It is a d20.
Why are there possibilities left if it has settled? And why has the number increased by one?
Yes, that is the median, but otherwise why? And go with it for what?
Why is this sentence here?
25% of the time 2 staggered away
25% of the time 0 staggered away
50% of the time or, most of the time, 1 staggered away
"however you may or may not notice that it's backwards because 2 staggered away in the important 1st(first) encounter and 0 staggered away in the last encounter"
@Grond0
Maybe you can help with your knowledge.
EDIT: from the logs above I guess the roles are probably separate most of the time, but does it depend on whether enemies are hit at the same exact time, as with spells in sequencers?
5th trial or instance: 0 staggered away
6th: 0 staggered away
7th: 1 staggered away
8th: 2 staggered away
9th: 3 staggered away
10th: 0 staggered away
11th: 1 staggered away
12th: 1 staggered away
13th: 1 staggered away
14th: 1 staggered away
15th: 0 staggered away
16th: 1 staggered away