Cavalier vs Blade: Better, more enjoyable character to play through the saga?
ktchong
Member Posts: 88
I have played the game(s) a few times, since the original first game came out in the late 1990s. However, I have never lasted long enough to complete the entire sage due to study, jobs, career, family, moving, losing old save files, changing computers without saving old hard drives, whatever.
I am feeling the urge to try again to finish the original sage with the enhanced additions and bonuses. I want to use the same character to play through and finish the whole sage in Enhanced Edition: starting with Baldur's Gate, Tales of the Sword Coast, importing through Siege of Dragonspear, importing again to Shadows of Amn, and finally Throne of Bhaal.
I am looking for class recommendations. I have narrowed down my final two choices to: Cavalier or Blade.
Based on what I know: both Cavalier and Blade are not as boring or dull as plain base classes like the fighter or cleric. Both Cavalier and Blade start out strong in the first game from the get-go, stay consistently strong throughout the whole saga, become very powerful at the end, has no "downtime" (like, let say, Kensai/Mage or Sorcerer,) level up consistently and quickly enough (unlike multi-classes or dual-classes,) play well in a party but also strong enough to survive on its own, flexible enough to work with any combinations of NPC party members, etc.
I have played the Cavalier once but did not finish the first game with it. I thought it was okay, one of the better and easier classes I have played, (compared to, let say, Kensai, which was a real pain to play in the first Baldur's Gate before I got the chance to duel it to a mage or thief.) Cavalier has always been among the most recommended "best classes to play through the saga".
I have never played Blade. However, I read that Siege of Dragonspear has added some fairly powerful Blade-specific equipment that could be carried over into the later games, so Blade has become a better, easier and more enjoyable class to play through the whole sage. Blade has become one of the most recommended "best classes to play through the saga" since Siege of Dragonspear came out.
So, my final two: Cavalier vs. Blade. I'm looking for analyses, comparisons, opinions, etc., especially for anyone who has play through the game(s) with either or both of those two classes.
My considerations are: Which class is easier, more fun and more consistently powerful throughout the entire saga? Which class complements the other major NPC companions/party-mates better? Which class is given more stories, side quests and interactions with NPC?
I have a huge list of games in my backlog on Steam and GOG. So, I want to use this one character to play through and complete the whole Baldur's Gate saga, once; and then I do not want to replay the same games again with a different character/class. I would rather spend my time to attend to other games in my huge backlog. So I want this one class to give me the best, optimal gameplay enjoyment and experience.
Thanks.
I am feeling the urge to try again to finish the original sage with the enhanced additions and bonuses. I want to use the same character to play through and finish the whole sage in Enhanced Edition: starting with Baldur's Gate, Tales of the Sword Coast, importing through Siege of Dragonspear, importing again to Shadows of Amn, and finally Throne of Bhaal.
I am looking for class recommendations. I have narrowed down my final two choices to: Cavalier or Blade.
Based on what I know: both Cavalier and Blade are not as boring or dull as plain base classes like the fighter or cleric. Both Cavalier and Blade start out strong in the first game from the get-go, stay consistently strong throughout the whole saga, become very powerful at the end, has no "downtime" (like, let say, Kensai/Mage or Sorcerer,) level up consistently and quickly enough (unlike multi-classes or dual-classes,) play well in a party but also strong enough to survive on its own, flexible enough to work with any combinations of NPC party members, etc.
I have played the Cavalier once but did not finish the first game with it. I thought it was okay, one of the better and easier classes I have played, (compared to, let say, Kensai, which was a real pain to play in the first Baldur's Gate before I got the chance to duel it to a mage or thief.) Cavalier has always been among the most recommended "best classes to play through the saga".
I have never played Blade. However, I read that Siege of Dragonspear has added some fairly powerful Blade-specific equipment that could be carried over into the later games, so Blade has become a better, easier and more enjoyable class to play through the whole sage. Blade has become one of the most recommended "best classes to play through the saga" since Siege of Dragonspear came out.
So, my final two: Cavalier vs. Blade. I'm looking for analyses, comparisons, opinions, etc., especially for anyone who has play through the game(s) with either or both of those two classes.
My considerations are: Which class is easier, more fun and more consistently powerful throughout the entire saga? Which class complements the other major NPC companions/party-mates better? Which class is given more stories, side quests and interactions with NPC?
I have a huge list of games in my backlog on Steam and GOG. So, I want to use this one character to play through and complete the whole Baldur's Gate saga, once; and then I do not want to replay the same games again with a different character/class. I would rather spend my time to attend to other games in my huge backlog. So I want this one class to give me the best, optimal gameplay enjoyment and experience.
Thanks.
- Cavalier vs Blade: Better, more enjoyable character to play through the saga?30 votes
- Cavalier53.33%
- Blade46.67%
1
Comments
To this day it was the most fun I've had in a BG Trilogy run.
The value of blade class is dramatically altered by the Rogue Rebalancing addition, a well-established mod in the community. I would recommend at least considering it for installation. My experience with the blade is based upon the iteration created by the mod. My very first playthrough of the saga was with a paladin that became a cavalier in bg2. Generally speaking, I would also recommend installing the BG1 NPC Project.
BG1-Blade
In BG1, the blade is going to struggle somewhat early on. The inability to wear heavy armor, lack of exceptional strength, and thief THAC0/HP combine to create a pseudo martial character that is mostly useless, frankly. Typically, you should be plinking with a missile weapon at this stage. Offensive Spin is powerful, and allows you to haste yourself for 24 seconds, while adding an attack. This is typically enough to defeat the early dangerous encounters via kiting.
[Rogue Rebalancing Note: with the mod, you begin with three pips in two weapon fighting, giving you a decent chance in melee, but generally still isn't worth it.]
Once you find a few wands, your blade becomes much more dangerous. Wands play an outsized role in effectiveness in bg1, and they are plentiful. They are also easy to recharge. Bards can utilize wands in the same fashion as wizards, and may wear armor while doing so, improving survivability. Eventually, during Chapter 6, you have the possibility of receiving elven chain, allowing you some degree of protection while retaining spellcasting. [Mods can change this to be somewhat earlier - the NPC Project adds a suit of bard only chainmail that is superior. If you want it, take Garrick to the carnival]
Mid BG1, the blade comes into its own. Spellcasting adds a degree of flexibility and survivability. Bard spellcasting can be particularly potent, as they reach caster level 10 in BG1, which results in, for example, an additional layer when using stoneskin. Many spells are slightly more powerful as well. Defensive spin begins to establish some value, and can be devastating in the occasional battle. I have defeated the final boss without taking a single point of damage, and without cheesing, by utilizing buffs and defensive spin.
BG1 - Paladin (Cavalier)
Significantly easier to play, and requires no micromanagement. Immunity to fear and poison are huge in BG1, and removing fear from your allies will prevent wipes. Charm immunity is situationally very useful. Exceptional strength, heavy armor, and fighter hp make you superior to the blade in the early going. Protection from evil can make you a superior ac tank. Lack of missile weapons is a hindrance, but remember that throwing axes and daggers are usable, and benefit from exceptional strength. You are functionally a fighter, but with fewer weaknesses, without a significant tradeoff in BG1. More powerful than a blade without using consumables, but the blade is much more effective if wands are utilized, albeit in a different role. On balance, probably more powerful than a blade, but the blade will be more powerful if spending resources on a specific encounter. Ultimately governed by how much the party rests.
BG1 - NPC Analysis
The surfeit of NPCs in BG1 make it so class choice almost doesn't matter in terms of composition. In early, early BG1, frontliners are somewhat scanty, but this is remedied by the time you reach your first destination. A blade doesn't quite replace a primary caster, in my opinion, though some might disagree. They are the best option as a secondary caster, and can serve as missile support more effectively than a mage. If one considers the npc options for bards and paladins, I don't find any of them essential, so for BG1, NPCs shouldn't influence your decision.
Siege of Dragonspear
I've not played either through the expansion, but there is a great deal of mass combat, so I'm inclined to wager the blade would be superior because of wands, which you'll still be carrying from BG1.There is a scarcity of tanks in SoD, which is a point in favor of the cavalier, but the blade is a serviceable frontliner at this point, and can pair with Minsc, Khalid, or dorn as needed. As long as they have spins available, they are great frontlines, but defensive spin rooting limits them as a true tank, particularly with the improved ai in SoD.
Conclusion
On balance, the blade is stronger in BG1, particularly adding SoD, but requires a significant degree of micromanagement to achieve that power. Cavalier is functionally stronger for most battles.
BG2
This is getting comically long, so I'm going to try and condense a little bit.
[RR Note: with the mod, bard spellcasting hits level 8, significantly boosting the blade's power]
The blade in bg2 begins to suffer from escalating THAC0 disparity that can't really be hidden by 19 strength (Tome) anymore. As such, the blade becomes more reliant on spells to bridge the gap. The gap between the blade and the cavalier widens in BG2, with the greater prominence of mage opponents and the intricacies of spell combat benefitting arcane casters. The pendulum doesn't really swing back until Throne of Bhaal HLAs. As a paladin, you gain access to the holy avenger, which makes a paladin relevant in the aforementioned spell battles, but power-wise, you'll still lag behind the Blade, in my opinion.
Paladin spellcasting doesn't really matter, except for draw upon holy might, which will remain useful throughout the saga. Maybe negative plane protection, if you don't have some other way to gain it from items.
BG2 NPCs are more limited, and as a cavalier, you probably won't want Keldorn around, since there is only one carsomyr. (Purifier is a pale shadow, imo). He is one of the stronger npcs, imo, despite needing two stat boosting items. Mostly because of the hilariously powerful inquisitor kit. An inquisitor wielding carsomyr is extremely powerful, and can almost solve most mage battles single- handedly.
Haer'Dalis is a blade NPC, and he has all the goodies of the kit and a dex draining sword that can be used to kill some enemies by stat drain. Either are great, and you probably won't want to bring them if you share their class. I'd rather play blade and bring keldorn, personally.
Throne of Bhaal empowers martials significantly through the use of HLAs. My experience with RR means that my HLAs with the Blade are vastly different from the baseline, but in vanilla, the use of HLA traps is brutally powerful. Timestop trap and offensive spin is quite strong, and spike traps can be the best nuke in the game.
Paladin HLAs are more straightforward; martial suite, and Summon Deva. The latter is great as a paladin HLA, even though devas and planetars are mutually exclusive. A powerful summon without using a top level spell slot has its own uses, particularly in protracted battles.
Overall, I'd recommend the blade. Judging from your post, I think you might find the cavalier boring. Mechanically, not much separates it from the fighter aside from a handful of immunities and special abilities. Blade will give you more to do with your character. Both are fun classes for me, and as a kid I liked the simplicity of the cavalier. Nowadays, I prefer the blade for the added flexibility and things to do.
I read that the Rogue Rebalancing Mod nerfs the Blade quite a bit, by replacing his High Level Abilities with lesser abilities, like replacing Enhanced Bard Song with Whirlwind, Spike Trap with Mass Charm, and Time Trap with Sound Burst.
I remember wands can't be recharged normally in Baldur's Gate. You would have to sell an almost depleted wand to a store and then buy it back, which could be an expensive hassle.
I do not remember, but could you check a wand's remaining charges in BG1:EE? I know you could not in the original version.
In one of my previous games, I was unable to keep Haer'Dalis in my party because my player character was romancing Aerie. i.e., a love triangle over Aerie caused a conflict between my main character and the Blade NPC. However, this time around I intend to romance the new NPC Neera. Neera is in all the BG games including Siege of Dragonspear, so she seems to be the best only option for a long-term romance with a male main character. With the love-triangle conflict out of the way, keeping and using Haer'Dalis as the Bard/Blade in my party seems to be a viable option.
Generally, I do not like to having "repeated classes/kits" in my party, i.e., having two or more party members sharing the same class and kit. So, having a Blade NPC - i.e., Haer'Dalis - available as a companion choice does significantly factor into my considerations and push me towards choosing the Cavalier for my player character.
As for which character is more fun, it depends on whether you like a character to be very efficient, or very versatile. The Blade has many more tools at its disposal, both in terms of spells and in terms of items, and there's not really anything the Cavalier can't do that the Blade cannot. However, the Cavalier does deal physical damage faster and more reliably, and aside from a brief period at the start of BG1, the Blade will never be able to match the damage output of a Cavalier... unless you have Rogue Rebalancing and you're combining Offensive Spin with Whirlwind Attack while in Iron Golem form from Shapechange or something crazy like that.
If it's more important for your character to have a bunch of tools, the Blade is going to be more fun. If you want your character to chop through enemies quickly and you don't want to fuss around with a bunch of special options, the Cavalier will be faster and smoother for you.
Somebody suggested Anomen, Keldorn as off tanks for BG2. Both have weak Dex resulting in getting hit a lot in melee and there is only one set of dex gauntlets. If taking that path aim for 17 or 18 Dex at character creation. Con might have to be a trade off depending on how high you roll. 10 Int if you can and minimum Wis.
I agree with making the PC a dual wielder with bastard sword and axe specialisation to go front line with either Anomen or Mazzy as shield bearer/tank. I would take Mazzy with Aerie or Anomen if not using Aerie. Keldorn second line with 2H swords.
Cavalier has staple immunities, full plate, fighter thac0, its faar easier in the begining and remain strong through the saga.
Just don't try to melee with them before getting a few levels and defensive spells.
In BG2 they are great tanks and have an excellent damage output, due to weapons granting extra attacks and spells like Stone Skin and Improved Haste.
But in the end it is simple: the Blade is so good because the kit is functionally close to the Fighter/Mage multiclass, which is regarded as the most powerful class combination by many players.
The Blade is a bit better in the beginning and somewhat worse in the BG 2 endgame.
I used to like the blade, but as i dislike the nerfs to the enhanced song introduced by EE i almost dont see any reason to chose it instead of a multi F M, that has no down time and is much stronger as fighter and caster.
The cavalier is a good fighter with some utility spells and immunities from the kit, that balance well the impossibility to attain GM.
So FM if you like a versatile and powerful toon trough the saga, pally if you like a fighter type with added RP value or blade if you like to micromanage a lot, to concentrate on charname a lot of good stuff to have him effective.
125k
blade lev 9, 9d6 hp 16 thac0, 8 spells max lev 3.
FM lev 6,7 hp average of 6d10 and 7d4, thac0 15, 10 spells max lev 4.
500k
blade lev 12, 10d6+4 hp, thac0 10, 11 spells max lev 4.
FM lev 9,10 hp average of 9d10 and 10d4, thac0 12, 15 spells max lev 5.
3M
blade lev 23, 10d6+26 hp, thac0 15, 26 spells max lev 6.
FM lev 14,14 hp average of 9d10+15 and 10d4 +4, thac0 7, 26 spells max lev 7.
end game the blade thac0 is still at 10 and the FM's one is at 0, he has +1.5 apr from level and specialization and is able to cast 2 lev 9 spells while the blade is stuck with lev 6 max. The access to PI and simulacrum multiply the numbers of FM's spells and give the access to a super strong clone to go mlee.
trough all the saga the FM has more hp and thac0 and even if has less levels as spellcaster (so a fireball is less damaging and some buffs last less) he is able to cast more and more powerful spells.
the blade has a powerful dispel magic, while the one from a multi is almost not useful.
the higher the level get the more the blade sub optimal thac0 and lack of high level spells becomes relevant, and the wands, that both can use, become obsolete.
at high levels the HLA kick in, and some of the rogue ones are really useful, UAI and traps are very good ones. But if a real thief is used instead of imoen or nalia the trap department is covered any way and most of the items a blade can equip thanks to uai can be equipped by a FM or are not effective in bard's hands, like the pally sword that in the hands of a 1 apr toon with rogue thac0 and not even a proficiency in its style is certainly not game breaking. the FM trades that with fighters HLA and high level mage HLA (additional spells, improved alacrity, summon deva and so on.
what made in not EE the blade interesting for me was the enhanced song. not, or at least not only, for the use of it with multiple mislead clones, thing that i have done, but not so often. with a little micromanagement was possible to have a blade activating the song and attacking in the same round, in EE it is no more possible as the auto pause interaction with the song is changed.
and in EE the AOE of the enhanced song, that before was too wide, is ridicously small, is almost impossible to have the full party affected if some work ranged, other mlee and other casting.
to have a blade singing and attacking, enhancing the whole party AC and thac0 while getting a 10 AC bonus himself was balancing him well against a FM, in EE i feel that no matter how i try but is always an inferior choice, still useful as the game can be beated with each class, but less interesting then before as it need a lot of good stuff to work and does not match the power of a FM at any point if not at the very beginning of bg.
At least to my way of thinking, neither of these classes do a great job satisfying the OP's requirements but blade comes much closer than cavalier. Plus blades are just a lot of fun to play despite their shortcomings.
Cavalier, a solid choice for a character for the entire saga. You have summon deva.
but
Blade: more fun and challenging. Not many spells but you can cast them at high level and level up faster. Spìns are fun and useful. Nice equipment choices. Good HLA. Rogue rebalancing is a must. Also:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/baldursgategame/images/d/df/CORAN26.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20170705025353
also very often my 5th and 6th slots are left empty.
so probably, even if we are both bard fans we use them to cover different roles in our parties that being different need different tactics.
those games are great because they don't force you to a certain style or to certain tactics, but really give the chance to experiment with a lot of freedom.
please explain it better, i don't know it and i want to taste every possible piece of cheese in the game, my mouse familiar also loves cheese
Test of Selfishness
Test of Wrath
If you keep Carsomyr +5 in quick slot before using the evil tear, you can keep using it being evil as long as you don't remove it. And you also get the ability to use Soul Reaver +4. Only downside to this is you can't upgrade Carsomyr to +6, which really only matters against Melissan's Divine Mantle.
Also because you get the evil tears from these tests, Cavalier can consequently get undispellable 25 strength and AC cap, if you use STR tear three times, and AC tear two times. This also leads to 10 apr FoA +5 critical strikes with 25 str bonus, without needing Crom Fayer.
Thank you!
The older versions were fine.
People have been posting in the Spellhold Studios to report the virus in the latest version, but the staff there were acting very defensively like a bunch of assholes, claiming the anti-virus programs were wrong without showing any evidence or proof.
I don't have an account at Spellhold Studios, and I have no prior experience with the forums or people there. However, based on what I read on their forums, those people are some serious assholes. Personally, I'd rather trust reputable anti-virus apps than a bunch of assholes over at the Spellhold Studios.
IMO, the latest file is infected with a Trojan. I am especially wary because the mod project has recently changed hands, from "aVENGER" to "Wisp". So be careful.
false positives are possible and as a mod is something that changes a program is even more likely that some antivirus flag as positive something that is not so.
i think that if spellhold studios would allow on purpose infected files it would be a suicidal move from their side.
by the way what antivirus are you using? have you sent the suspect file to virus total or a similar online service? i can not do it as i am not working with my pc now as i am not at home and i don't want to download a potentially infected virus on a computer that is not mine.
EDIT: i gave a quick look and on their forums the only thread i am able to find that deal with the possible trojan is
http://www.shsforums.net/topic/60014-rogue-rebalancing-492-possible-virus/
and there only a single person asked about the trojan and only a single antivirus flagged the file as infected.
but you told: and people is different from a single person, programs is different from a single antivirus and a single person of the staff replied telling "Nothing but a false positive", thing that is different from "the staff there were acting very defensively like a bunch of assholes", a person is not a bunch and that answer does not qualify as asshole imho.
i don't see why to bring here a 1 year old topic, without giving the link to the source, i had to google to find it, to give us a wrong report, from what you write it seems that the issue has been brought up by more then 1 person and that the spellhold s. staff had answered in a different way than how they did.
to warn us about a possible virus in a download related to the games is wellcome, but i am not happy about the way you did it