@BallpointMan
The exisitence of Gods of Evil is independent of their omnipotence.
The fact that someone prays to a god of literal evil there is a high chance this person sees themselves as evil.
The FR, since their conception, a world of absolut morality.
if a god has evil in his portfolio, and then is killed and evil is taken into a new portfolio - is the new god more evil? Less evil? Equally evil? It's hard to say. Technically, it's impossible to say. That's a challenge for the idea that an absolute evil exists.
That doesn't mean that persons can't change their alignment, it just means that certain actions are defined as good and others as evil.
Or, in other words, there is no action that is not defined on a scale of Good - Neutral - Evil.
Well - the PHB includes unaligned as well. A shark eating a fish is not good, neutral or evil. It's unaligned (according to the PHB)
Slightly off note:
AO is not omnipotent. The deities are as good as omnipotent to mortals and in the same sense AO is as good as omnipotent to the gods. But at the end of the day he is just the branch manager of the FR.
A while ago, the design leader of D&D talked about D&Ds multiverse and basicly, every world (aside from Eberron) has a branch manager who created and maintaines the world.
(Eberron was made by a bunch of -I think- Gods who shielded the world from the greater multiverse.)
Two cent re: the illithid being somewhat sympathetic in terms of being hunted, and how binary good and evil are in D&D:
The D&D alignment system gives us a continuum to begin with by placing Neutral between Good and Evil. If there is a continuum then I would think there is some relativism.
It's just better story telling to tell stories from the subjectiv point of view of the characters. If the perspective of the illithid is that they have a tragic history that's just inherently more interesting to me than simply slapping a label on them.
Two cent re: the illithid being somewhat sympathetic in terms of being hunted, and how binary good and evil are in D&D:
The D&D alignment system gives us a continuum to begin with by placing Neutral between Good and Evil. If there is a continuum then I would think there is some relativism.
It's just better story telling to tell stories from the subjectiv point of view of the characters. If the perspective of the illithid is that they have a tragic history that's just inherently more interesting to me than simply slapping a label on them.
This has been adressed before, but a linear continuum of good and evil has nothing to do with moral relativism. Moral relativism is about what is considered evil/good is not objective, but only defined by your particular culture.
That Sarevok is evil, Jaheira is neutral and Aerie is good has nothing to do with moral relativism. Even if you had a finer spectrum than defined in D&D, this is not the case, e.g. if you say Irenicus = 100 Evil Points, Sarevok = 80 Evil Points and Korgan = 40 Evil Points.
Moral relativism would be saying that both "Sarevok is good and Aerie is evil" and "Sarevok is evil and Aerie is good" are equally valid view points. And here in the D&D universe it is plainly defined in the rules that only the 2nd statement is true & the know alignment spells tells you so.
Anyway, I think if you would use a finer ordering of degrees of evilness, the Illithis would be very close to the top.
Not directly related to the game, this interview on D&D Beyond, which features Wizards of the Coast creative designer Adam Lee talking about the significance of the symbol of Bhaal, the "Dead Three" (Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul), and more.
Just after saying (basically) that the symbol of Baal is the batsignal of BG to call heroes to fix things; he defines why the dead three are evil in a D&D perspective (and a rational perspective, to be honest).
The important part is that he says that "You know when you are a bloodthirsty god of murder, retreating to the Gray Heavens is no good, you want to be in the world feasting on blood. The Dead three find themselves in that sort of position that they are in the mortal world and are enacting their master plan, perhaps if you play this game".
So maybe there is a possibilty that the "Dead Three" are the main antagonists?
So before we can draw any conclusion about the exact content of bg3 we need someone to explain the storyline of descent into avernus to us? That's okay, only a bit over a month of waiting then.
And someone really needs to spoiler that to me since I don't play table top DnD campaigns due to lack of interest at my friends.
About the combat in Bg3, they want to keep it hidden "We want to show the combat, not talk about it"
They stated that they "With respect to the combat system, this is based on D&D, so we’re using their combat system" ( That is not the same as using the combat system of previous games) https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/larian-developer-interview
but they tweak some things to make D&D a videogame experience. What things? We do not know, but they give us some clues:
Swen Vincke how fully his studio is adapting D&D’s character progression, and he said:
“That’s actually been one of the things that we’ve been struggling with, because it’s a very slow leveling process in the books,” he says. As D&D players will know, gaining ten or 12 levels on the tabletop is a journey that could last weeks, but for a videogame, it’s “not a lot.”
Nevertheless, Larian is making a D&D game. Therefore: “We wanted to stick to it. So we’re figuring out ways of letting you still feel that you’re progressing in a meaningful manner, but in a videogame manner.”
Misses from dice rolls. “The very obvious one would be that you tend to miss a lot when you roll the dice, which is fine when you’re playing on the tabletop, but it’s not so cool when you’re playing a video game,” Vincke said. “We had to have solutions for that.” https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/leveling-system
We already know that the new PA "Bg: descent into avernus" is going to be the prequel of the new bg3.
If you are not planning on buying this product and are a little curious about this campaign´s story, they are making a miniseries here on IGN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxk8bM5OBEw
You can learn a little about Avernus and watch an infernal machine fueled by damned souls in all his glory.
About the combat in Bg3, they want to keep it hidden "We want to show the combat, not talk about it"
They stated that they "With respect to the combat system, this is based on D&D, so we’re using their combat system" ( That is not the same as using the combat system of previous games) https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/larian-developer-interview
but they tweak some things to make D&D a videogame experience. What things? We do not know, but they give us some clues:
Swen Vincke how fully his studio is adapting D&D’s character progression, and he said:
“That’s actually been one of the things that we’ve been struggling with, because it’s a very slow leveling process in the books,” he says. As D&D players will know, gaining ten or 12 levels on the tabletop is a journey that could last weeks, but for a videogame, it’s “not a lot.”
Nevertheless, Larian is making a D&D game. Therefore: “We wanted to stick to it. So we’re figuring out ways of letting you still feel that you’re progressing in a meaningful manner, but in a videogame manner.”
Misses from dice rolls. “The very obvious one would be that you tend to miss a lot when you roll the dice, which is fine when you’re playing on the tabletop, but it’s not so cool when you’re playing a video game,” Vincke said. “We had to have solutions for that.” https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/leveling-system
They also revealed that the "Baldur´s mouth" newspaper of Murder in baldur´s gate will be in BG3, involved in a quest.
Ed: The article also said that we do not have a comeback of Irenicus, and do not respond if we are going to travel to Avernus in the game.
Thanks for the info
Dont know about you but I dont like the sound of it. I know it is too early but BG games or NWN ones were all quite faithful to the rules and became blockbusters. I dont know why suddendly they have to change important things because “they dont work in videogames”.
Perhaps it is just me not having played 5 th edition but I have read the books and I dont find many problems translating the system into a videogame. 3/3.5 editions seem more difficult to me.
About the combat in Bg3, they want to keep it hidden "We want to show the combat, not talk about it"
They stated that they "With respect to the combat system, this is based on D&D, so we’re using their combat system" ( That is not the same as using the combat system of previous games) https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/larian-developer-interview
but they tweak some things to make D&D a videogame experience. What things? We do not know, but they give us some clues:
Swen Vincke how fully his studio is adapting D&D’s character progression, and he said:
“That’s actually been one of the things that we’ve been struggling with, because it’s a very slow leveling process in the books,” he says. As D&D players will know, gaining ten or 12 levels on the tabletop is a journey that could last weeks, but for a videogame, it’s “not a lot.”
Nevertheless, Larian is making a D&D game. Therefore: “We wanted to stick to it. So we’re figuring out ways of letting you still feel that you’re progressing in a meaningful manner, but in a videogame manner.”
Misses from dice rolls. “The very obvious one would be that you tend to miss a lot when you roll the dice, which is fine when you’re playing on the tabletop, but it’s not so cool when you’re playing a video game,” Vincke said. “We had to have solutions for that.” https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/leveling-system
.
As i've said, it will be a Sword Coast Legends 2.0, not baldur's gate 3.
Comments
if a god has evil in his portfolio, and then is killed and evil is taken into a new portfolio - is the new god more evil? Less evil? Equally evil? It's hard to say. Technically, it's impossible to say. That's a challenge for the idea that an absolute evil exists.
Well - the PHB includes unaligned as well. A shark eating a fish is not good, neutral or evil. It's unaligned (according to the PHB)
I didn't know that. That's interesting.
The D&D alignment system gives us a continuum to begin with by placing Neutral between Good and Evil. If there is a continuum then I would think there is some relativism.
It's just better story telling to tell stories from the subjectiv point of view of the characters. If the perspective of the illithid is that they have a tragic history that's just inherently more interesting to me than simply slapping a label on them.
This has been adressed before, but a linear continuum of good and evil has nothing to do with moral relativism. Moral relativism is about what is considered evil/good is not objective, but only defined by your particular culture.
That Sarevok is evil, Jaheira is neutral and Aerie is good has nothing to do with moral relativism. Even if you had a finer spectrum than defined in D&D, this is not the case, e.g. if you say Irenicus = 100 Evil Points, Sarevok = 80 Evil Points and Korgan = 40 Evil Points.
Moral relativism would be saying that both "Sarevok is good and Aerie is evil" and "Sarevok is evil and Aerie is good" are equally valid view points. And here in the D&D universe it is plainly defined in the rules that only the 2nd statement is true & the know alignment spells tells you so.
Anyway, I think if you would use a finer ordering of degrees of evilness, the Illithis would be very close to the top.
Just after saying (basically) that the symbol of Baal is the batsignal of BG to call heroes to fix things; he defines why the dead three are evil in a D&D perspective (and a rational perspective, to be honest).
The important part is that he says that "You know when you are a bloodthirsty god of murder, retreating to the Gray Heavens is no good, you want to be in the world feasting on blood. The Dead three find themselves in that sort of position that they are in the mortal world and are enacting their master plan, perhaps if you play this game".
So maybe there is a possibilty that the "Dead Three" are the main antagonists?
Yep, and I'm gonna wager that Bhaal is the pivotal player.
And someone really needs to spoiler that to me since I don't play table top DnD campaigns due to lack of interest at my friends.
In one of the recent interviews with Vinke and Mearles, Vinke says in the video that Murder in Baldur's Gate is also a sequel to BG3.
They stated that they "With respect to the combat system, this is based on D&D, so we’re using their combat system" ( That is not the same as using the combat system of previous games)
https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/larian-developer-interview
but they tweak some things to make D&D a videogame experience. What things? We do not know, but they give us some clues:
Swen Vincke how fully his studio is adapting D&D’s character progression, and he said:
“That’s actually been one of the things that we’ve been struggling with, because it’s a very slow leveling process in the books,” he says. As D&D players will know, gaining ten or 12 levels on the tabletop is a journey that could last weeks, but for a videogame, it’s “not a lot.”
Nevertheless, Larian is making a D&D game. Therefore: “We wanted to stick to it. So we’re figuring out ways of letting you still feel that you’re progressing in a meaningful manner, but in a videogame manner.”
https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/leveling-system
Misses from dice rolls. “The very obvious one would be that you tend to miss a lot when you roll the dice, which is fine when you’re playing on the tabletop, but it’s not so cool when you’re playing a video game,” Vincke said. “We had to have solutions for that.”
https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/leveling-system
There is also another article that confirms the timeline of the games and the sinergy with WotC PA´s of Bg Murder in baldurs gate and the upcoming Descent into Avernus.
https://venturebeat.com/2019/06/06/baldurs-gate-iii-is-coming-for-pc-and-stadia-when-its-ready-takes-place-after-dds-descent-into-avernus/
They also revealed that the "Baldur´s mouth" newspaper of Murder in baldur´s gate will be in BG3, involved in a quest.
Ed: The article also said that we do not have a comeback of Irenicus, and do not respond if we are going to travel to Avernus in the game.
If you are not planning on buying this product and are a little curious about this campaign´s story, they are making a miniseries here on IGN
You can learn a little about Avernus and watch an infernal machine fueled by damned souls in all his glory.
Thanks for the info
Dont know about you but I dont like the sound of it. I know it is too early but BG games or NWN ones were all quite faithful to the rules and became blockbusters. I dont know why suddendly they have to change important things because “they dont work in videogames”.
Perhaps it is just me not having played 5 th edition but I have read the books and I dont find many problems translating the system into a videogame. 3/3.5 editions seem more difficult to me.
As i've said, it will be a Sword Coast Legends 2.0, not baldur's gate 3.