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How do you feel about multiclasses from a roleplaying perspective?

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Comments

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,330
    Of course, customization is fun for all manner of gameplay reasons, but the idea that a character has less personality because that isn't hardcoded into his class is just nonsense.

    If you ask what the difference is between two level 7 fighters in terms of background and personality, the answer is anything and everything, because both of those things are completely divorced from his class. One could be a Lazy Immigrant from the Twelfth Plane of Torment and the other could be a Former Street Urchin with Political Ambitions.

    ThacoBell
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,330
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    In this thread some people use the fighters as an example of lack of customization, that fighters are all alike, and to be honest, I have to agree up to a point. 2e warriors have very limited options to customize: the weapons of choice and little else (if we are talking game and combat mechanics, RP is limitless with any character).

    It is even worse because in most of the IE games you do not use skills besides thief skills or lore to identify items, so of course, all those characters look like the same. You do not have non-combat skills or skills that you can use in combat.

    But If you take a look at other classes that is not the case. An enchanter mage requires a different playstyle than a sorcerer-evoker. An assassin does not use the same tactics as a swashbuckler( One of them does not even have SA). You can use your bard as a ranged caster or as a melee blade with a focus on protection spells. You can have a cleric like Viconia or a cleric like Anomen or Branwen. You can play with your druid as a summoner, support your party with debuffs and healing or polymorph and do the killing yourself (You can even switch your spells to be both depending on the situation).
    And I did not even start with all the multi classes.

    Few customization options in 2e? Yeah. In warriors.

    Some of it also probably depends on your roleplaying group.

    In The Adventure Zone Travis plays a fighter. Every time the two caster characters do something zany and crazy with their spellcasting abilities, often employing a very loose interpretation of the rules, nobody bats an eye, but every time Travis tries to do anything more creative than swing a weapon it seems like he has to spend five minutes justifying himself to the rest of the group. He didn't have a lot of fun and honestly I can't blame him.

    ThacoBell
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,330
    One thing I've been thinking about lately is that a lot of the Multiclass NPC's will tend to just focus on one class.

    Montaron is a thief type, and they don't really devote any particular amount of time towards justifying his weapons training, so it could be overthinking things when I start worrying about how all the time practicing swordcraft reflects on my archetype.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,330
    Skatan wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »

    When you multiclass a something like a mage/thief, do you tend to think of it just as somebody who's trained in both the arts of magery and thievery? Or do you try to mesh both concepts under a singular new banner?

    I see the discussion has bent into new areas, but I'm gonna reply to the original question.

    I think of them as primarily a new class that merges the two types into one, kinda like how PoE2 gives multiclasses a new character class name. I did this in my head even before I played PoE2. Example, my cheated elven assassin/mage was played as an "Alchemist" type, concocting poisons and using whatever means he could to avoid direct confrontation. A fighter/thief is played like a thug, a fairly combat oriented rogue who dabble in thievery but is primarily a brute warrior. A fighter/mage is like the old swordsaint concept. A fighter/cleric dwarf, of which I have played many, is a zealot of his church, a crusader champion of his faith out to bash in skulls and spread the gospel of his God very hands on.

    Since 2e mix profession with classes (IMHO for example rangers and paladins are professions and not classes), I have no problem to mix MCs myself. If the game had a very strict class system, it might have been harder to bend it in my head, but it isn't and I haven't.

    Final Fantasy 1 took a lot of inspiration from Dungeons and Dragons.

    One of the changes they made though, that I like, is that the classes are in a way even looser.

    A white mage practices healing magic. A black mage practices harming magic. Very little is laid out about their ethos beyond that. Does their power come from a god? From a book? From something else entirely? Largely up to the player to imagine or interpret as they will.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Skatan wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »

    When you multiclass a something like a mage/thief, do you tend to think of it just as somebody who's trained in both the arts of magery and thievery? Or do you try to mesh both concepts under a singular new banner?

    I see the discussion has bent into new areas, but I'm gonna reply to the original question.

    I think of them as primarily a new class that merges the two types into one, kinda like how PoE2 gives multiclasses a new character class name. I did this in my head even before I played PoE2. Example, my cheated elven assassin/mage was played as an "Alchemist" type, concocting poisons and using whatever means he could to avoid direct confrontation. A fighter/thief is played like a thug, a fairly combat oriented rogue who dabble in thievery but is primarily a brute warrior. A fighter/mage is like the old swordsaint concept. A fighter/cleric dwarf, of which I have played many, is a zealot of his church, a crusader champion of his faith out to bash in skulls and spread the gospel of his God very hands on.

    Since 2e mix profession with classes (IMHO for example rangers and paladins are professions and not classes), I have no problem to mix MCs myself. If the game had a very strict class system, it might have been harder to bend it in my head, but it isn't and I haven't.

    Final Fantasy 1 took a lot of inspiration from Dungeons and Dragons.

    One of the changes they made though, that I like, is that the classes are in a way even looser.

    A white mage practices healing magic. A black mage practices harming magic. Very little is laid out about their ethos beyond that. Does their power come from a god? From a book? From something else entirely? Largely up to the player to imagine or interpret as they will.

    And Red Mages practice the art of being cooler than everyone else. Seriously, Red Mage is probably in my top 3 rpg classes.

    ChroniclerPsicoVicSkatan
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,330
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Skatan wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »

    When you multiclass a something like a mage/thief, do you tend to think of it just as somebody who's trained in both the arts of magery and thievery? Or do you try to mesh both concepts under a singular new banner?

    I see the discussion has bent into new areas, but I'm gonna reply to the original question.

    I think of them as primarily a new class that merges the two types into one, kinda like how PoE2 gives multiclasses a new character class name. I did this in my head even before I played PoE2. Example, my cheated elven assassin/mage was played as an "Alchemist" type, concocting poisons and using whatever means he could to avoid direct confrontation. A fighter/thief is played like a thug, a fairly combat oriented rogue who dabble in thievery but is primarily a brute warrior. A fighter/mage is like the old swordsaint concept. A fighter/cleric dwarf, of which I have played many, is a zealot of his church, a crusader champion of his faith out to bash in skulls and spread the gospel of his God very hands on.

    Since 2e mix profession with classes (IMHO for example rangers and paladins are professions and not classes), I have no problem to mix MCs myself. If the game had a very strict class system, it might have been harder to bend it in my head, but it isn't and I haven't.

    Final Fantasy 1 took a lot of inspiration from Dungeons and Dragons.

    One of the changes they made though, that I like, is that the classes are in a way even looser.

    A white mage practices healing magic. A black mage practices harming magic. Very little is laid out about their ethos beyond that. Does their power come from a god? From a book? From something else entirely? Largely up to the player to imagine or interpret as they will.

    And Red Mages practice the art of being cooler than everyone else. Seriously, Red Mage is probably in my top 3 rpg classes.

    In Jeff Ludwig's Mod of Balance (very good mod, highly recommend it), the Red Mage is pretty much rebranded as the Ranger. Looks really natural in an edited Green Outfit Sprite. The ranger leans a bit more heavily towards martial prowess and a bit less heavily towards magical might but it still covers all your bases.

    Its major boasting point though, is that in the mod Accuracy and Hit Count were made independent of eachother. The Ranger has the highest accuracy stat, and is really nifty for hitting evasive foes.

    Very different from a Baldur's Gate Ranger, obviously.

    ThacoBell
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 749
    edited September 2019
    Chronicler wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    In this thread some people use the fighters as an example of lack of customization, that fighters are all alike, and to be honest, I have to agree up to a point. 2e warriors have very limited options to customize: the weapons of choice and little else (if we are talking game and combat mechanics, RP is limitless with any character).

    It is even worse because in most of the IE games you do not use skills besides thief skills or lore to identify items, so of course, all those characters look like the same. You do not have non-combat skills or skills that you can use in combat.

    But If you take a look at other classes that is not the case. An enchanter mage requires a different playstyle than a sorcerer-evoker. An assassin does not use the same tactics as a swashbuckler( One of them does not even have SA). You can use your bard as a ranged caster or as a melee blade with a focus on protection spells. You can have a cleric like Viconia or a cleric like Anomen or Branwen. You can play with your druid as a summoner, support your party with debuffs and healing or polymorph and do the killing yourself (You can even switch your spells to be both depending on the situation).
    And I did not even start with all the multi classes.

    Few customization options in 2e? Yeah. In warriors.

    Some of it also probably depends on your roleplaying group.

    In The Adventure Zone Travis plays a fighter. Every time the two caster characters do something zany and crazy with their spellcasting abilities, often employing a very loose interpretation of the rules, nobody bats an eye, but every time Travis tries to do anything more creative than swing a weapon it seems like he has to spend five minutes justifying himself to the rest of the group. He didn't have a lot of fun and honestly I can't blame him.

    Yeah, we were talking about 2e but that still happens in newest editions: For warrior types you have issues with non-combat use of skills, or the lack of use for non-combat skills for non-casters, to be more precise. All you can do can be done (better) with a spell.
    The pure caster classes (wizards, clerics, druids, bards...) have much more options than non-casters. I am not talking about combat or buffs. There is almost nothing a non-caster class can do that you cannot do with a spell.
    Yo need scouting? eye of mage, sanctuary, far view, some invisibility spell, and voila, instantly improved scouting.
    You need help in diplomacy? You have discern lies, friends spell, charm, illusion...
    Traps? Find traps (ok, you cannot disable them unless arcane trickster or something like that)
    Problems navigating desfavorable terrain? fly, feather fall, resist heat/cold, oasis.
    Travelling too slow? Wind walk, haste, conjure carriage,
    You are hungry/thirsty? create food and water, good berries,...
    You need brute force? Bull's strength, tenser transformation, polymorph or summon something to do it for you...
    You have to build or repair something? Fabricate!
    A problem that is not of the above? Wish!

    And it is cool to have all those options for casters, I hope they give more, but why bother to learn skills with your fighter, monk or barbarian if you have a druid or mage to do it (better) for you? And as you said before, if you try to do it without using magic you have to justify yourself for 5 minutes or simply refute your approach because "You can do it faster if you use spell X"
    I do not say that because I do not like to play casters. On the contrary, I usually play casters because when I play a warrior type I got bored of inaction until we have to hit something or lift something heavy.

    Post edited by PsicoVic on
    Chronicler
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,330
    edited September 2019
    The whole Linear Warrior Quadradic Wizard situation makes for some interesting stories. We're all familiar with countless stories of some noble warrior with maybe a magic sword trying to overcome the evil wizard whose magic defies imagination with nothing but his wits and courage.

    It maybe gets a bit problematic when you're expecting these characters to work alongside eachother, and one of you is a fairly grounded individual with a defined skill set, and the other just gains a more diverse array of powers every time he blinks. At a certain point it just becomes the Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit sketch.

    Edit: I wanna be clear that I'm not married to this opinion or anything. It's just something the conversation's got me thinking about. I'm working through it as I speak.

    ThacoBell
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 749
    edited September 2019
    Yeah, well, the GM told me to be creative with my monk outside of combat, but the thing is that I am used to playing casters. And a monk, no matter how Uber he is, is bounded by the laws of physics to interact with the world. As you said is a "grounded individual with a defined skill set"
    A magic-user is only bounded by your GM. because, you know, magic XD

    I remember this adventure, "la ciénaga del escorpión" ( I do not know the English name, Scorpion´s swamp?) So, here we are in the swamp, my drunken bar-brawler ranger-monk, and Worthington the third, the erudite barbarian archer. Also a druid with a very talkative raven companion. The monk and the barbarian were thrilled because at last, we would be able to use our hard-earned survival skills in this godforsaken bog and all was set for another chapter of our healthy competition between companions of opposite alignment.
    So, here we are, going bananas with the "I am so going to track us the hell out of this difficult terrain" " Stand down and let my knowledge (nature) superiority take the lead" "you can only lead us to disaster" "The only thing you can accurately find is the bottom of a bottle of mead"... you know the drill.

    It's our moment to shine. And we're gonna ace it
    So we made our checks and stuff and then all that happened was that we made it to the other side of the gorge and we found a water source. We were soaked and dirty and full of mosquitoes bites, but we´ve made it.

    Total 35 seconds of rp.

    Also I found some footprints, so We found earlier that some humanoids were in the defilade.
    Totally cool. So our druid did not have to spend one use of "create water" spell and his raven did not have to warn us (because that feathery show-off totally made his spot check) and all was solved with two dice rolls. The Druid also simply feather-step his way of out the swamp and burned the mosquitoes with a "flare" cantrip without breaking a sweat.
    Even the raven gave us some pitiful stares "Maybe you should go sacred fist from here? (That I know because he rp that. Senda and Worthington the third hate that smartass talking bird for a reason ).
    Our moment to shine... totally worth it (not).

    (also just after that we mess it up big time with a double hide and spot check, but fortunately, the evasion of the monk kicked and the barbarian had like tons of hp so we survived. The druid took us out with a vine spell and healed us while his "flying bother" laughed at us)

    Maybe it is because I do not have good experiences in our plays: the adventures or the gm does not allow the use of class features wisely. In theory there are lot of potential in most non-caster classes`utility skills, but in practice, we simply do not find much to do besides combat in our plays when we rp warrior classes. And I am not the only one who thinks that. Most of the time we ended with a party of casters unless I play a warrior type.



    As a final side note, in the last D&D editions (besides 5e) and Pathfinder I found that multiclass is more useful for warrior types, due the fact that casters lose caster levels (they addressed it in 5e) so you usually do not take more than a few levels of a class that is not your main caster class unless you want a prestige class. So the era of the uber fighter-clerics, fighter-clerics or fighter-mages ended in 3e.

    And I think it makes sense. Multiclassing caster characters (as used in 2e: you gain levels for both classes at the same time) gained a lot and only lost a few spells, generally speaking.

    gorgonzolaChroniclerDreadKhanSkatan
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    I'll always miss my Paladin of Tyranny/Sorcerer build... one of my more excessive builds, but sometimes you needed to do that in 3rd ed. Nothing like using charisma to literally buff everything nearly!

    Chronicler
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 304
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    In this thread some people use the fighters as an example of lack of customization, that fighters are all alike, and to be honest, I have to agree up to a point. 2e warriors have very limited options to customize: the weapons of choice and little else (if we are talking game and combat mechanics, RP is limitless with any character).

    It is even worse because in most of the IE games you do not use skills besides thief skills or lore to identify items, so of course, all those characters look like the same. You do not have non-combat skills or skills that you can use in combat.

    But If you take a look at other classes that is not the case. An enchanter mage requires a different playstyle than a sorcerer-evoker. An assassin does not use the same tactics as a swashbuckler( One of them does not even have SA). You can use your bard as a ranged caster or as a melee blade with a focus on protection spells. You can have a cleric like Viconia or a cleric like Anomen or Branwen. You can play with your druid as a summoner, support your party with debuffs and healing or polymorph and do the killing yourself (You can even switch your spells to be both depending on the situation).
    And I did not even start with all the multi classes.

    Few customization options in 2e? Yeah. In warriors.

    Some of it also probably depends on your roleplaying group.

    In The Adventure Zone Travis plays a fighter. Every time the two caster characters do something zany and crazy with their spellcasting abilities, often employing a very loose interpretation of the rules, nobody bats an eye, but every time Travis tries to do anything more creative than swing a weapon it seems like he has to spend five minutes justifying himself to the rest of the group. He didn't have a lot of fun and honestly I can't blame him.

    Yeah, we were talking about 2e but that still happens in newest editions: For warrior types you have issues with non-combat use of skills, or the lack of use for non-combat skills for non-casters, to be more precise. All you can do can be done (better) with a spell.
    The pure caster classes (wizards, clerics, druids, bards...) have much more options than non-casters. I am not talking about combat or buffs. There is almost nothing a non-caster class can do that you cannot do with a spell.
    Yo need scouting? eye of mage, sanctuary, far view, some invisibility spell, and voila, instantly improved scouting.
    You need help in diplomacy? You have discern lies, friends spell, charm, illusion...
    Traps? Find traps (ok, you cannot disable them unless arcane trickster or something like that)
    Problems navigating desfavorable terrain? fly, feather fall, resist heat/cold, oasis.
    Travelling too slow? Wind walk, haste, conjure carriage,
    You are hungry/thirsty? create food and water, good berries,...
    You need brute force? Bull's strength, tenser transformation, polymorph or summon something to do it for you...
    You have to build or repair something? Fabricate!
    A problem that is not of the above? Wish!

    And it is cool to have all those options for casters, I hope they give more, but why bother to learn skills with your fighter, monk or barbarian if you have a druid or mage to do it (better) for you? And as you said before, if you try to do it without using magic you have to justify yourself for 5 minutes or simply refute your approach because "You can do it faster if you use spell X"
    I do not say that because I do not like to play casters. On the contrary, I usually play casters because when I play a warrior type I got bored of inaction until we have to hit something or lift something heavy.

    Yes, but how many of your precious few spell slots are you willing to spend on something that could be done continuously with a skill? Maybe it won't be accomplished with the same flair, but it's free.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,330
    I'd imagine precisely how precious those spell slots are depends on the campaign.

    They're essentially an unlimited resource in Baldur's Gate for example, since very little is time sensitive.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 749
    edited September 2019
    shabadoo wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    In this thread some people use the fighters as an example of lack of customization, that fighters are all alike, and to be honest, I have to agree up to a point. 2e warriors have very limited options to customize: the weapons of choice and little else (if we are talking game and combat mechanics, RP is limitless with any character).

    It is even worse because in most of the IE games you do not use skills besides thief skills or lore to identify items, so of course, all those characters look like the same. You do not have non-combat skills or skills that you can use in combat.

    But If you take a look at other classes that is not the case. An enchanter mage requires a different playstyle than a sorcerer-evoker. An assassin does not use the same tactics as a swashbuckler( One of them does not even have SA). You can use your bard as a ranged caster or as a melee blade with a focus on protection spells. You can have a cleric like Viconia or a cleric like Anomen or Branwen. You can play with your druid as a summoner, support your party with debuffs and healing or polymorph and do the killing yourself (You can even switch your spells to be both depending on the situation).
    And I did not even start with all the multi classes.

    Few customization options in 2e? Yeah. In warriors.

    Some of it also probably depends on your roleplaying group.

    In The Adventure Zone Travis plays a fighter. Every time the two caster characters do something zany and crazy with their spellcasting abilities, often employing a very loose interpretation of the rules, nobody bats an eye, but every time Travis tries to do anything more creative than swing a weapon it seems like he has to spend five minutes justifying himself to the rest of the group. He didn't have a lot of fun and honestly I can't blame him.

    Yeah, we were talking about 2e but that still happens in newest editions: For warrior types you have issues with non-combat use of skills, or the lack of use for non-combat skills for non-casters, to be more precise. All you can do can be done (better) with a spell.
    The pure caster classes (wizards, clerics, druids, bards...) have much more options than non-casters. I am not talking about combat or buffs. There is almost nothing a non-caster class can do that you cannot do with a spell.
    Yo need scouting? eye of mage, sanctuary, far view, some invisibility spell, and voila, instantly improved scouting.
    You need help in diplomacy? You have discern lies, friends spell, charm, illusion...
    Traps? Find traps (ok, you cannot disable them unless arcane trickster or something like that)
    Problems navigating desfavorable terrain? fly, feather fall, resist heat/cold, oasis.
    Travelling too slow? Wind walk, haste, conjure carriage,
    You are hungry/thirsty? create food and water, good berries,...
    You need brute force? Bull's strength, tenser transformation, polymorph or summon something to do it for you...
    You have to build or repair something? Fabricate!
    A problem that is not of the above? Wish!

    And it is cool to have all those options for casters, I hope they give more, but why bother to learn skills with your fighter, monk or barbarian if you have a druid or mage to do it (better) for you? And as you said before, if you try to do it without using magic you have to justify yourself for 5 minutes or simply refute your approach because "You can do it faster if you use spell X"
    I do not say that because I do not like to play casters. On the contrary, I usually play casters because when I play a warrior type I got bored of inaction until we have to hit something or lift something heavy.

    Yes, but how many of your precious few spell slots are you willing to spend on something that could be done continuously with a skill? Maybe it won't be accomplished with the same flair, but it's free.

    ,
    Chronicler wrote: »
    I'd imagine precisely how precious those spell slots are depends on the campaign.

    They're essentially an unlimited resource in Baldur's Gate for example since very little is time-sensitive.

    Also, you have free cantrips, rituals and the option to use wands or scrolls. Some classes like sorcerers can use points to recast. I´ve played lots of casters and you only run out of spells at a low level or if the campaign is very time-sensitive. Never happened to me.
    If we are talking about outside of combat, and If I want to "save" my spell slots for a reason, I simply use polymorph, the familiar/companion, free cantrips or use my skills... because casters could also use the same skills as the warrior-types(sometimes even better), a fighter or monk would never cast spells by themselves.

    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,330
    Mage Hand is a cantrip right? From what I understand it's essentially just telekinesis. Sounds pretty broadly applicable outside of combat.

    PsicoVic
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,208
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Mage Hand is a cantrip right? From what I understand it's essentially just telekinesis. Sounds pretty broadly applicable outside of combat.

    IIRC, Mage Hand is a minor form of telekinesis, yes. You're limited to moving a single object that weighs no more than 5 pounds, and no faster than 1 foot/second. Furthermore, you are unable to perform precise tasks such as, say, tying a knot in a rope using the Mage Hand spell.

    There is a higher (3rd level, I believe) spell called Telekinesis that is much more functional and can perform broader tasks than Mage Hand.

    Chronicler
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 749
    edited September 2019
    You can also cast "prestidigitation" for free. You can even cast it several times non-stop and have up to three effects at the same time. You have a lot of useful effects to use in RP situations outside combat.
    https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Prestidigitation

    Or even use your familiar, animal companion or an unseen servant to do tricky things for you.

    Chronicler
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,330
    This is all focusing pretty heavily on the mage class here, but I'm imagining other caster classes have equivalent Zero Cost actions they can perform whenever?

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 749
    edited September 2019
    Oh, bards and Warlocks can use prestidigitation and mage hand, too.
    And a bard with Magic Initiate and Ritual Caster feats or the Magical Secrets class feature could use find familiar and some other spells from other caster classes.
    That also allows you to cast ritual spells, that do not use spell slots. Wizards have the superior ritual book casting for free.

    Clerics and druids also have unlimited cantrips and can cast spells as rituals.
    IMHO clerics and druids´ cantrips are not as versatile as wizard´s but could be ok in some situations.
    Druids have cantrips like Shape water or mend earth that allows interacting with the environment. You can repair objects with mending or use druidcraft to make some tricks. You can create bonfires or use frostbite to quench it. I like "thorn whip", too. Instant living rope anywhere you need.
    I do not care much about cleric´s cantrips, to be honest.
    Rituals require a longer casting time (plus 10 minutes) but do not spend spell slots. Remember that I am talking about spells outside combat so maybe you do not require instant-casting spells or you want to have a ritual prepared beforehand to use in some situation. You can cast a lot of divination spells as rituals, and also some very useful ones like "comprehend languages" "speak with animals" "water breathing/walking" "purify food and water" "animal sense "commune/commune with nature" "contact other plane" etc

    Some of them are blatant cheating, like the cleric´s "augury" spell, that allows you to see the future ( i.e the DM has to tell you something about what is going to happen).

    Strangely enough, there is a totem barbarian that can cast rituals.

    Post edited by PsicoVic on
    Chronicler
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,226
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    You can also cast "prestidigitation" for free. You can even cast it several times non-stop
    "You instantaneously clean or soil an object no larger than 1 cubic foot"

    I think a normal person can do that without magic just fine.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 749
    edited September 2019
    lroumen wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    You can also cast "prestidigitation" for free. You can even cast it several times non-stop
    "You instantaneously clean or soil an object no larger than 1 cubic foot"

    I think a normal person can do that without magic just fine.

    Yeah, but prestidigitation also allows you to

    • You create a nonmagical trinket or an illusory image that can fit in your hand and that lasts until the end of your next turn.

    • You create an Instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musical notes, or an odd odor.

    • You instantaneously light or snuff out a Candle, a torch, or a small campfire.

    • You instantaneously clean or soil an object no larger than 1 cubic foot.

    • You make a color, a small mark, or a Symbol appear on an object or a surface for 1 hour.

    • You chill, warm, or flavor up to 1 cubic foot of nonliving material for 1 hour.


    I am pretty sure a normal person cannot do that unless you are David Copperfield.

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,271
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    lroumen wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    You can also cast "prestidigitation" for free. You can even cast it several times non-stop
    "You instantaneously clean or soil an object no larger than 1 cubic foot"

    I think a normal person can do that without magic just fine.

    Yeah, but prestidigitation also allows you to

    • You create a nonmagical trinket or an illusory image that can fit in your hand and that lasts until the end of your next turn.

    • You create an Instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musical notes, or an odd odor.

    • You instantaneously light or snuff out a Candle, a torch, or a small campfire.

    • You instantaneously clean or soil an object no larger than 1 cubic foot.

    • You make a color, a small mark, or a Symbol appear on an object or a surface for 1 hour.

    • You chill, warm, or flavor up to 1 cubic foot of nonliving material for 1 hour.


    I am pretty sure a normal person cannot do that unless you are David Copperfield.

    Don't be so sure, I can create puffs of wind and odd odors many times per day and can soil 10 cubic meters of ie an apartment in a matter of minutes.

    PsicoVic
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