Dual Class or not? Please help!
Raoul
Member Posts: 18
Have a Fighter and a Mage at level 14 (IWD)
Is Dual Class an option? Recommended? Or too late?
Still Heart of Winter and Luremaster to go …
Is Dual Class an option? Recommended? Or too late?
Still Heart of Winter and Luremaster to go …
1
Comments
A cleric in particular is very useful, but if you've made it this far with the team...
As a general tip though, dual-classing is usually better of planned ahead rather than organically added without prior planning. This means already planning for a dual beforehand already at character creation, which level and to which class. Well, at least of you're anything like me (control freak/power gamer).
Cheers!
A fighter after level 13 doesn't have anymore something great to offer, so i totally advice to dual that one. The problem, as already exposed, is about the stats. My two cents opinion is to dual class to mage, because if you have proficiencies in slashing weapons they will be lost if you dc to cleric.
Until your new class, the one you dual into, surpass the previous one in levels (ie reaching level 15 in your case) your abilities from the first class won't be available.
So for the.next done quest you should probably gain four levels in your new class...
the thing to note about multi-classing and dual-classing:
only HUMANS can dual class, they CANNOT multi-class
all other races can multi-class, but they CANNOT dual class
and some races have more multi-class options than others
with the half-elf being able to multi-class into any multi-class option
while the gnome is the only race that can multi-class while be a specialist mage but it must be illusionist
so once you understand the multi-class thing, now perhaps you will want to try out the dual-class option
so first, obviously you have to be human
second, you must have a minimum of 15 in prime requisite ability score for your first class and you must have at least 17 for the prime requisite ability for ability scores for the class you want to dual into
so for example, lets say we want to make a figher dual into a cleric
that means you will need at least 15 STR ( because fighter is your first class, and a fighter's prime requisite is STR ) and you will need at least 17 WIS ( because a cleric's prime requisite is WIS and it's the second class )
so once you hit level 2 you can dual over to cleric, so lets say you hit level 7 in your fighter class, and then you decide to dual over to cleric
now you will have the HP of a level 7 fighter, but EVERYTHING else will be at a level 1 cleric ( saves, thac0, weapon proficiencies, spells ect )
so now you will grow up levels in your cleric class only ( and you will never again gain XP in your fighter class ) - unlike a multi-class character who shares the XP with itself -
and then when you finally hit level 8 in that cleric class, you previous fighter abilities will now become active; your proficiencies will come back, your thac0 will come back, if the level 7 fighter had better saves those will come back ect
and then you will continue on gaining levels in cleric and eventually the cleric will over ride your fighter abilities if they surpass them aka saves and thac0
now with that being said there are some things to look out for;
first, if you have a druid or cleric in any dual class situation you will only ever be able to use weapons associated with that class regardless what you dual into, so if you were to make the above example of a fighter dualling into a cleric, make sure to only master yourself with cleric weapons, or else some of your proficiencies will be wasted
next when it comes to arcane spell casting; you will not be able to cast arcane spells using any kind of armor even though one of your classes allows you to aka if you did fighter -> wizard, despite the fact it will now allow you to wear armor, you still can't cast spells while the armor is on, this also applies for thieves and thieving skills, if you wear anything heavier than light armor, your thieving skills ( except for detection and trap laying ) will be disabled
next you need to kind of think ahead of XP gathering, because if you dual class too late, you might never surpass your original class ( the rule with dual classing is; if you want to regain the abilities of your first class, your second class has to surpass it by 1 level ) so try and keep in mind where you are XP wise before you do it so for example:
in IWD on insane difficulty with no double XP on, the time i hit the last boss my team will usually have around 1.28-1.35 million XP each ( depending on how unnecessary grind was put in )
the time i finish TotLM and HoW with the same team i will usually be around 2.9-3.09ish million XP each ( i think TotLM has about 1 million XP per character worth of XP )
also note, that the default level cap of IWD or HoW is level 30, do if you dual at level 30 you will never be able to get the abilities of your first class without a level cap remover
so with the above here are some usually used ideas of when people will dual class
fighters;
level 7 -> cleric or thief or mage
this option is very popular because you will hit level 7 in chapter 2, and chances are you will hit level 8 in your second class in the same chapter, plus this will help give your second class more HP, to hit, to damage, APR than a normal cleric or thief or mage would normally get
level 9 ( usually kensai )-> cleric or thief or mage
with this dual you will no doubt be in chapter 3 when you start and depending on the second class you might be in chapter 4 or 5 when you finally surpass the first, hitting level 9 instead of level 7 though in your fighter class gives you one extra proficiency point, a little bit more HP and if you are a kensai 1 more to hit/to damage than level 7, the level 9 kensai works real well with thieves for backstab and mages who can buff themselves for some serious damage, not as effective with clerics since they can't wear armor, but this still get the nice to hit and damage bonuses all the same
level 13 -> cleric or thief or mage
this is usually the highest someone will dual class a fighter since level 13 is when a fighter gets their last ( extra half attack per round at this level )
now at level 13 you are more than likely going to be in chapter 6 or pretty much near the end of the game of IWD the time you dual here ( so this is more for a character that is going to be going into HoW ) also it would be advised to make sure this isn't one of your major damage dealers because this character has a pretty good chance that they are going to be useless in the final IWD battle, and since they are of this high of a level, your might be well into HoW ( perhaps at least half way through with TotLM finished ) before you even surpass your original level 13 fighter
but, if you can do it, this is the "power gamer build" where you will have lots of HP, great to hit, great to damage, some nice APR, and it will just make whatever class you dual into a million times better than what they would have been without those fighter levels ( although with just a little less spells per day from being 1.25 million XP behind ) and this works great with kensai duals as well because now your bonus to hit/to damage is +4 instead of +3 at level 9
so with this being said, usually people will do the level 7 option since its relatively quick and easy and you get your fighter abilites back pretty quickly
*also note that if you have the "double XP" from encounters option on, you will gain XP much faster, but this only applies to story mode, easy, hard and insane which gives; SM: +100%, easy: +50%, normal: +0%, hard: +50%, insane: +100%, plus higher difficulties will also have more monsters in some parts
also, if you plan to import a team to HoF mode, then you will be gaining zounds of XP in that mode, and the chance of you hitting level 30 in HoF mode, is pretty much guaranteed, so some players will do dual classing in that mode just because of the huge XP you will get
another interesting dual classing choice is:
swashbuckler 10 ( or 11 ) -> fighter or cleric or mage
unless you are obsessed with backstab, swashbucklers can make good choices to dual into something that can be taken advantage of the AC bonus/to hit/to damage bonus
as i said unless you like backstab and gratuitous trap laying, thieves kind of get weaker and less useful in IWD so this can be an excellent oppurtunity to dual class them
i usually will dual class a swashbuckler at level 11 because;
1) this should give enough thief points for all the needed thief needs ( traps, locks, setting traps perhaps )
2) the +3 AC bonus and +2 to hit/to damage is a great boon for whatever class i will go into
3) at level 11 that is the next upgrade threshold of thief traps and that is when you get your 3rd trap per day, so especially if you are a trap layer, level 11 is great, if not then you can do this at level 10
so if you dual at level 10, you will no doubt either be at the very end of chapter 2 or the very beginning of chapter 3 and it will be around chapter 5 when your second class finally surpasses those thief levels
if you dual at level 11, it will be somewhere in chapter 3 and you will probably be at the beginning of chapter 6 the time you get your level to surpass your thief levels
luckily, in chaptes 3,4 and 5 i find they are quite doable without a thief, so having that down time isn't all that bad
i would type more on the subject, but im almost forgetting to eat and i need to go get dinner, so hopefully this helps that out a bit
Setting traps - not perhaps, but definately! The level of traps keeps growing when your character level increases, even when you're no longer getting new thief levels.
OK, it may not be used much when playing with a full party, but its crazy helpful in plenty of situations with a smaller party or solo
11s/f i believe means;
swashbuckler 11 then dual over to fighter
so 24s/f would be;
swashbuckler 24 then dual over to fighter
note;
if you are super hardcore you can actually reach level 25 in swashbuckler and then dual over to fighter and still hit level 26 in the ToB XP cap, now that is a truly scary character ( although it will be at the very end of ToB at best when you hit level 26 in that fighter class )
Of course, harder settings force you to learn more things about the game, to use scrolls, wands, potions, many different approaches etc.
I would recommend core / normal difficulty for your first solo, and there is nothing shameful to continue doing so with your next solo playthroughs.
Enjoy the whole content, learn your chosen kit/class more intimately. For each class you will still learn plenty of things in order to succeed and will not lose your interest.
When you're unprepared and its insanely hard - you just risk abandoning the whole solo thing and killing the enjoyment before it actually gets so good that you might not even want to do parties anymore
Profs.: Long Sword, Scimitar/Wakizashi/Ninjato.
Two-Weapon Style. On Core Rules.
Hope this works. Feels good alone. But I can‘t imagine,
to get to the first dragon.
So when doing it proper without resting, you should kinda know that 3 traps will bring him down to nearly half hp on core already. The rest is for you to figure out. Some challenge is always fun, as long as its not crazy tought. You may start attack with a bow or some throwing weapon. Set traps, initiate fight by shooting from distance, move further away, shoot again when he starts coming to you, by that time he will eat the traps and poison dmg will kick in, there wont be much life left in him. The rest is up to you, may finish him off with melee.
Little unfortunate you couldnt get 16 int for mind flayers.. So you could survive 3 attacks instead of 2. But its ok i guess.
Are you planning to dual to fighter later on or stay as swashbuckler? Because if you are going to dual to fighter then there is no point now to put pips in 2 different slashing melee weapons, since you will again override it when leveling a fighter.
So you could focus on for example long swords now and for example quarterstaff , and then fully max scimitars, or visa versa.
You will need to use a crushing weapon occasionally, quarterstaffs +3/+4 will be very handy against golems, other quarterstaffs with elemental summoning will also be very useful. Traps + summons and you are free to cut them baddies and slash them from side to side. It will be really bad if you are going to be totally unproficient with quarterstaffs.
Btw. What you mean with „doing it proper without resting“.
And I want to dual at lv. 24 or so. And then max scimitars or whatever.
Quarterstaffs I didn‘t had on my mind. But I should.
24s/f is quite the distance, i hope you wont get bored. But this way you will actually obtain good experience in soloing with 2 different classes.
Downside to that is constant desire to start playing at full potential, knowing that there is still a long long road ahead.
The good thing about it is getting 1 thief HLA before dual. It will be up to you what to pick, but I would go with use any item hla. It will remain when you dual. I wasn't sure, so I just checked: any hla will remain when you dual to fighter, thats nice.
So maybe get some scroll cases and store all scrolls you get in the game, you might want to use them after unlocking use any item hla.
Another thing to think about:
When you reach 24 you dont have to dual if you are not really feeling like it, if you are not looking forward to starting from scratch as a fighter, if you are happy with what you've got then stay a pure swashy till the end
He will get even more damage and insane ac, thief hlas, new awesome OP traps etc. So, you dont really have to worry about it.
Save the game at 24 so you can reload it from there, if you stop enjoying grinding fighter levels
But the transition to a fighter is very good. Its not like you are suddenly a level 1 mage, no.
By that time in the game you will have good gear for a fighter and as soon as you dual, gear up, invest in pips and you are ready to keep going strong.(plus use any item)
You will be able to max ANY 2 new weapons plus max old weapon of choice. Might end up dual wielding hammers/flails and bow on swap haha, who knows)