Saving Dorn and Neera on Legacy of Bhaal difficulty
enhancedgamerx
Member Posts: 90
I wanted to try to finish the game on the Legacy of Bhaal difficulty and also try out playing through the game with the new companions in my party so, to hit two birds with one stone, I decided to do them both in the same playthrough, but the problem is that both Neera and Dorn get absolutely gibbed pretty much immediately in their introductory events due to their persecutors being madly tough on LOB and Dorn and Neera being complete tossers. I'm completely out of ideas on how to save them and get them to my party so I can finish their personal quests and play through the game with them. Is it actually possible to do this? Can you guys give me some advice?
0
Comments
remember, joinable characters match up with your team for XP in increments of 2000 to a max of 32000
wands of paralyzation, spells of hold person/ blindness, charm person or even dire charm can help in those fights to make them much more bearable ( i believe thalantyr at high hedge - west of beregost sells wands of paralyzation, although bring some decent coin with you to buy them )
I would agree that saving Dorn is significantly harder than Neera, since you can't prebuff and make strategic use of the terrain.
What class are you playing ? What is your level and party composition thus far ?
I think a wand of monster summoning could help in those case (in fact, this single wand can let you win almost all fights in BG1 LoB), if not to finish off the opponents, at least to aggro the enemies.
Early wand of monster summoning can be found in the Valley of the Tombs map ( https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Valley_of_the_Tombs)
Thoughts on Dorn:
- have a mage or bard use Wand of Monster Summoning near the archers on the right side of the ambush
- have a divine spellcaster cast Doom on Senjak (I think he is more of a threat than Dorotea)
- have your best tank try and aggro Senjak and/or Dorotea's attention
Thoughts on Neera:
- the main problem, if I remember correctly, is that Neera tends to melee and aggro the 2 mercenaries... I think that they are the primary threat and should be taken care of first
- you could try and use Algernon's cloak's charm on one of the mercenaries (enemies saves at -1 vs breath). If used by a kitted character (not a specialist mage though), you benefit from another -2 ST malus on top of that (the cloak's spell is listed as "specialist school : none", same as kitted characters).
A few spells, still useful in LoB, that might help you make these encounters easier:
- lvl 2 cleric "silence 15' radius", saves at -5 !!! the bane of enemy spellcasters (and allows some cheese if sent from outside of the fog of war, since silenced enemies don't trigger conversations). Word of caution, it is not party friendly. Should take care of that Thayan mage in Neera's encounter long enough for you to take care of his 2 henchmen. Can't remember if Dorotea also casts spells, would be useful against her too then.
- I found that lvl 1 arcane spell "Blindness" is the most useful spell at this level (Spook has its uses too, with scaling ST malus but very short duration), even though there is no ST malus (unless cast by an Illusionist), once it hits, it's a win (enemy gets -4 AC and -4 thac0, and can't see you if you strike from further than range 1. Two-handed weapons have range 2). Casting Doom and later Greater Malison beforehand might be necessary on later foes though.
- lvl 2 arcane "Web" remains useful until late BG2, especially if stacked in a Sequencer. Obviously, you need to find a way to not fall victim to your own webs though (in BG1 : you can pickpocket a Ring of Free Action from Dushai in Ulgoth's Beard with 60 or more pickpocket at any point in the game, and obviously you later get the Spider's Bane and a 2nd ring of free action on the last floor of the Iron Throne). Contradicts with Haste though.
- "Hold" is a bit difficult to rely on, since the Priest version has no ST malus, and the Mage version only a +1 malus and is overshadowed by the next spell:
- "Slow" is THE lvl3 arcane spell IMO: party-friendly, enemies saves at -4 (!!), very useful for strategic purposes, and enemies affected suffer from -4 AC and -4 thac0 malus ! Stacks with Blindness.
Hope this helps
Dorn being killable is a bug which will be fixed by the 2.6 patch.
So you're saying I have to wait for the Thayans mercenaries to die before I can backstab Neera to death and steal her stuff ?
there is a level 4 cleric spell called free action, which gives you the same benefits from the rings of free action
I'm playing on the current patch, can't remember if I started the game on it, though, but I think i did since it has been around for a long time and I didn't start my game THAT long ago, and both Neera and Dorn are definitely killable in my game during their introductory scenes. They both die almost instantly when the encounter begins. Some bug mayhaps?
Yeah, I'm definitely going to save them for later, until I hit the max level cap, preferrably, if I can solo myself up to that point. I think the early Wand of Monster Summoning would probably be my best bet to help me out with that, and after that the Wand of Paralyzation for sure but, like you said, that costs a lot of money at lower levels.
actually in bg1 branwen is tied for for the highest wisdom of all clerics, i think kagain also has 16, but he will get less spells because he will only reach level 7 in cleric as apposed to branwen's level 8
plus branwen has a couple new special abilities thanks to her class kit
Oh, wait, you have SoD - that raises the experience cap so that clerics get fifth level slots. So then it's just two problems.
Branwen's wisdom? She's at 16, which puts her tied with Faldorn and Yeslick for the highest wisdom among BG1 priests, or indeed any recruitable companions in the game (not including SoD). If you want higher wisdom than that, you'll have to either spend tomes or make your own.
Also, don't try to take Yeslick with that party. He's incompatible with Dorn.
Ah sry I misremembered the ring buff. Anyways, my point with the ring was just to get another skelly summon, as summoned creatures are very useful in LOB.
Branwen it is, then!
unless you bring along your own created cleric or figher/cleric then no
or
unless you want to try and use quayle, but you will have to wait until chapter 5 and again he is a multi-class so he won't be getting that many cleric spells, especially with that "AWESOME" 10 wisdom of his
Is the Ghast summon a unique innate ability of his or is it a cleric spell?
unique ability
Given that Tiax is a multi-class cleric and his wisdom is only 13, I'm guessing he won't have as many skellie summons as Branwen would? How does his Ghast compare up to regular ol' cleric skellies? Is it really worth the trade? Also, would opening locks and finding traps through magical means be a viable choice so that I could skip needing a Thief in my party altogether?
True, but as it is a 4th level cleric spell, it is not available until (at least) 55k XP (and companions have, at the highest, 32k XP when joining you if I remember correctly).
I did not mention the spell since the OP mentioned early encounters. Dushai's ring is available immediately after leaving Candlekeep with 60 in pickpocket (might need a potion for that), it is a big detour from normal playthrough though.
About Tiax, I never used his special ability in LoB so I can't compare his summon with normal skellies. Should be better though (Ghasts are supposed to have a special ability that can Hold opponents, veeeery useful especially in LoB).
Unless you have mods though, Tiax is only available very late, has only 13 Wisdom, and less spells/day.
In fact, at lvl cap, without enhancments from gear/tomes:
- Tiax (lvl7 cleric at max lvl) spells: 4/3/2/1
- Branwen (lvl8): 5/5/3/2
- Faldorn (lvl10): 6/6/3/3/2
So, Tiax only has 1 less lvl3 spell, but gets his summon Ghast special ability, which more than makes up for it. Also has utility as a thief. But he won't cast many spells per day.
Branwen's special ability (Spiritual Hammer) and two casts of Holy Power (lvl4 spell) from her Tempus kit can be seen as 3 more spell slots. And you also get her Chaos of Battle ability which, although random, can notably affect a battlefield. Stacks well with Chant.
On a pure number of spells/day point of view, Faldorn owns any other divine spellcaster. And she also gets a nice special ability (summon Dread Wolf), powerful undead wolf with lots of immunities.
Druidic spells are not the same as Cleric spells though, and lose out on the powerful Animate Dead spell (although, arguably, this spell is not as powerful in BG1 as it becomes in BG2), but have instead the Call Woodlands Beings which is very different, but very powerful.
She gets lvl5 spells too (notably Chaotic commands, Ironskins, Pixie Dust, and the beautiful Insect Plague)
So, if I'm not mistaken, your party would be like:
- you, fighter/mage
- Dorn (Blackguard)
- Rasaad (Monk)
- Neera (Wild mage)
- Baeloth (Sorcerer)
That's a lot of arcane power. You indeed need both Divine power and might use a thief. Tiax seems like a good compromise, although not shining in either classes. Until he becomes available, you will probably prefer Branwen as she is available immediately in Nashkell (I guess if you can wait for Faldorn, you can also wait for Tiax).
... Or you could not take Rasaad, who's a goody-two-shoes that doesn't mix well with the rest of the team, Neera excepted, and take Branwen and a thief (Montaron would be nice RP-wise, or Shar-Teel dualed to thief is even better).
EDIT : you asked about the necessity of having a thief. You can detect traps with cleric spells (Rasaad as a monk can do the same), but you can't disarm them.
Opening locks with the lvl2 arcane spell Knock is off course viable, and since you have so many spellcasters, it should not hinder you too much.
But not disarming traps, especially in LoB, means that you need good metagaming knowledge on which traps are dangerous and who can trigger them without taking too much damage.
Example: I know which traps have magic missiles (nashkell mines, thieve's maze for example), I always cast Shield (spell or amulet) before triggering them if I don't have thieves.
For the traps that trigger Lightning Bolts (Bandit Camp, again the thieve's maze), I either rely on micro to avoid the bold (random), or simply cast Prot. from Lightning (lvl4 cleric, lvl5 mage) or gulp a Potion of Absorption. But I mostly play solo. If I have a party, I always have some kind of thief for convenience sake.
So, you can do without one, but it is a bit of a hassle.
In BG2 though, I don't know who to suggest, since there is no cleric/thief. I think a good cleric (Viconia, given the evil touch of your party) would be more important than a thief (Hexxat would come to mind if going the thief route, and she is also one of the new NPC from EE).
Or, again, just ditch Rasaad and make an evil party with both Vicky and Hexxat
I tried invoking monsters to aggro Senjak & Dorotea. They don't care and directly go for Dorn.
I tried crowd control : with higher levels and saves, disabling the 2 of them takes time and Dorn only has 10 or so HP...
I had to result to cheese : force-talk against one, while focusing fire on the other (with party & summons). Did not feel very satisfying...
My party was at 32k XP already, and composed of:
- Myself (scald)
- Kagain
- Shar-Teel (dualed to thief, armed with a bow)
- Edwin
- Viconia
I don't see how a lvl1 party can do it without cheese in LoB. Fixing this to make him unkillable in patch 2.6 is indeed a good thing
It really depends on what you are looking for:
- all familiars except true neutral, lawful evil and chaotic evil are immune to sleep (who cares), petrification (great against basilisks, but that’s it) and level drain (great against vampires, but they still take the damage so not really tanky)
- no familiar is really tanky: in non-LoB their low HP means that they die in 1 or 2 hits max, and even with LoB HP, the enhanced thac0 of enemies should not make even the Pseudo Dragon (LG, NG) that good with his 0 AC (-1 with Blur).
- In SoA and ToB, the Pseudo Dragon’s attack can make the ennemy unconscious (save vs death negates), which can seem interesting, but not with 13 thac0 against LoB’s -11 AC...
- the Imp (LE) is interesting. Less HP, alas, 100% res fire/cold/ele (situational), but gets Polymorph Self, which can make it actually very useful, especially in LoB and/or solo runs. Transform it in spider and launch webs at your enemies, and watch it wreak havok in melee. Face a mage? Let it transform in Mustard Jelly and watch it absorb all enemies spells with its 100% magic resistance. Or you just need some more punching power to help your other fighters, and either go for Bear form (great APR+dmg, bad AC, average thac0), Ogre (only 1 base APR but hits hard) or Flind (strikes at +3, better thac0, 2 APR and does +1 fire damage).
- lawful neutral ferret has 50% pickpocket in BG1 (75% in BG2!), comes really handy if you don’t have a thief and want to steal some stuff.
- the chaotic neutral cat has 75% stealth (99% in BG2) and makes for a great scout
- in BG2 only, the chaotic good Fairy Dragon has Invisibility 15’ radius. Your mage could cast it himself off course but still, it is worth mentioning.
That should not be a bug. There are too many invincible NPCs as is
The invincibility isn't supposed to persist after their introductory fighting events. During normal gameplay they are killable, just like all the other NPC companions. Were you talking about non-companion NPCs?
Since it's probably going to be a while before the 2.6 patch hits the shelves so would it be possible to circument my problem with some console command to make Neera and Dorn invincibile for the duration of their intro encounters? Given that they are supposed to be that way anyway, I don't feel particularly cheesy for using a cheat like that.