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Ranger (Archer)/Cleric - what's the point?

So I thought the idea of making an Archer/Cleric sounded interesting, so I rolled one, only to find out that after you retain the stats/features of both classes, you are still unable to use bows, so what is the actual point of even offering this combination, seeing how bows in particular, rather than missile weapons in general, are the strong point of choosing an Archer?

Comments

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,137
    Slings add strength damage bonus , so a character with str 18/xx (or magically enhanced) can cause exceptional damage , not to mention all the strength enhancing buffs that a cleric can cast +archer bonuses.

    sarevok57StummvonBordwehrleeux
  • smoermsmoerm Member Posts: 8
    In the original D&D 2nd ed. rules, none of the class kits like Archer existed-- there was just the Ranger>Cleric dual class option. The kits were later implemented and the Archer>Cleric just happened to become a de facto possibility.

    Quartz
  • H0RSEH0RSE Member Posts: 105
    edited October 25
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    Slings add strength damage bonus , so a character with str 18/xx (or magically enhanced) can cause exceptional damage , not to mention all the strength enhancing buffs that a cleric can cast +archer bonuses.

    it still seems silly, since archers particularly are designed to focus around using bows, which when dualed with a cleric, cannot happen. Seems like wasted potential and that you'd be better off just doing a regular Ranger/Cleric build.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    If you want a good Ranger/Cleric kit with focus in bows I strongly recommend the Hawkeye of Solonor from Deities of Faerun.

    DJKajuruStummvonBordwehr
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,137
    edited October 25
    H0RSE wrote: »
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    Slings add strength damage bonus , so a character with str 18/xx (or magically enhanced) can cause exceptional damage , not to mention all the strength enhancing buffs that a cleric can cast +archer bonuses.

    it still seems silly, since archers particularly are designed to focus around using bows, which when dualed with a cleric, cannot happen. Seems like wasted potential and that you'd be better off just doing a regular Ranger/Cleric build.

    Perhaps , but it's still a functional class and archer bonuses apply to slings as well, so an Archer 9/Cleric 10 will gain +3 attack and damage to slings. If the same character, with strength 18/50 and dexterity 18 , specialized in slings, equipped with a simple sling+2 and bullets+2 he will have a total of +10 to attack and +10 to damage.

    So in the end I must disagree , how can +3 attack and damage be a waste for a character who is meant to stay in the back and shoot? After all, a kitless ranger/cleric may have another role in the group, such as wearing heavy armor and dual wielding .

    Post edited by DJKajuru on
    OlvynChuru
  • H0RSEH0RSE Member Posts: 105
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    So in the end I must disagree , how can +3 attack and damage be a waste for a character who is meant to stay in the back and shoot?

    Stay in the back and shoot in party perhaps, but I'm talking about solo play, so it really comes down to, what is more important - the +atk you get using slings (assuming you have a high enough str to really capitalize on it) or the extra armor choices you get with vanilla ranger?

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,185
    H0RSE wrote: »
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    So in the end I must disagree , how can +3 attack and damage be a waste for a character who is meant to stay in the back and shoot?

    Stay in the back and shoot in party perhaps, but I'm talking about solo play, so it really comes down to, what is more important - the +atk you get using slings (assuming you have a high enough str to really capitalize on it) or the extra armor choices you get with vanilla ranger?

    The archer class has pretty good stealth by level 9 and using only leather armour gives more of a motivation to use it too. I think that could help in a solo run if used properly...

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,348
    H0RSE wrote: »
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    So in the end I must disagree , how can +3 attack and damage be a waste for a character who is meant to stay in the back and shoot?

    Stay in the back and shoot in party perhaps, but I'm talking about solo play, so it really comes down to, what is more important - the +atk you get using slings (assuming you have a high enough str to really capitalize on it) or the extra armor choices you get with vanilla ranger?

    Regardless of their starting strength, an archer/cleric can eventually get very high strength by using Draw Upon Holy Might and/or Righteous Magic. The combination of those two will likely get even a non-min-maxed archer/cleric to 25 strength.

  • H0RSEH0RSE Member Posts: 105
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    H0RSE wrote: »
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    So in the end I must disagree , how can +3 attack and damage be a waste for a character who is meant to stay in the back and shoot?

    Stay in the back and shoot in party perhaps, but I'm talking about solo play, so it really comes down to, what is more important - the +atk you get using slings (assuming you have a high enough str to really capitalize on it) or the extra armor choices you get with vanilla ranger?

    Regardless of their starting strength, an archer/cleric can eventually get very high strength by using Draw Upon Holy Might and/or Righteous Magic. The combination of those two will likely get even a non-min-maxed archer/cleric to 25 strength.

    you quoted me, but didn't actually address the main point of my words, lol. If you are playing solo, you can't just "stay in the back and shoot," whether you have 25 str. or not and if you can get your str that high, why not just take the stronger armor and the bonus 2-weapon fighting perks, and do melee?

    I just feel that if you can't use the bow and get it to grandmaster, which is a main perk of the kit, you're just left with a poor man's archer. I mean at that point, by definition, you're not even an archer.

  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 335
    edited October 29
    I think an archer is a bad choice for solo play whether or not dualled with cleric, as it is a dps class not a tank and it is helpful to have a party to tank for you. In theory you could use summons to tank if you dual to a cleric. If you are playing an archer solo you won’t want enemies to get too close and will have to play smart regardless of armour.

    The benefits of having a slinging archer/cleric have been mentioned, yes you can’t use bows but it makes slings much more powerful. If you are slinging from the back, leather armour is fine. And you can heal very well.

  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 945
    H0RSE wrote: »
    If you are playing solo, you can't just "stay in the back and shoot,"

    Why not? If you're playing a cleric, you can have undead upfront to tank most of the time. And for the time when you can't, just run around hasted & shoot.

    Unless you plan on starting HoF from level 1, a character, even a solo one, doesn't have to be powergamed in every aspect. IWD isn't that difficult.

    OlvynChuru
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,433
    H0RSE wrote: »
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    H0RSE wrote: »
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    So in the end I must disagree , how can +3 attack and damage be a waste for a character who is meant to stay in the back and shoot?

    Stay in the back and shoot in party perhaps, but I'm talking about solo play, so it really comes down to, what is more important - the +atk you get using slings (assuming you have a high enough str to really capitalize on it) or the extra armor choices you get with vanilla ranger?

    Regardless of their starting strength, an archer/cleric can eventually get very high strength by using Draw Upon Holy Might and/or Righteous Magic. The combination of those two will likely get even a non-min-maxed archer/cleric to 25 strength.

    you quoted me, but didn't actually address the main point of my words, lol. If you are playing solo, you can't just "stay in the back and shoot," whether you have 25 str. or not and if you can get your str that high, why not just take the stronger armor and the bonus 2-weapon fighting perks, and do melee?

    I just feel that if you can't use the bow and get it to grandmaster, which is a main perk of the kit, you're just left with a poor man's archer. I mean at that point, by definition, you're not even an archer.

    The archer cleric can be pretty vicious as others have said. If you're playing solo you will either be doing lots of stealth, hiding behind summons or using movement & sniping tactics. In the 1st and third instances there's not that much difference between the APR with sling or bow as you will be tend to be moving between shots anyhow. Total damage from a sling is very competitive with that from a bow - the amount done depends on tactics, equipment and levels so you can't easily generalize, but it's not necessarily the case that a bow does more overall despite the difference in weapon proficiency.

    If you prefer playing more as a tank, then the standard ranger would be a better fit for you due to their ability to wear plate armor.

    StummvonBordwehrDJKajuru
  • H0RSEH0RSE Member Posts: 105
    edited November 1
    deleted

    Post edited by H0RSE on
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,849
    H0RSE wrote: »
    so what is the actual point of even offering this combination, seeing how bows in particular,

    The point is to offer choice to the player, that doesn't mean the player have to make that choice because it exist. IWD/BG isn't PoE, not all character classes and/or combinations are equally balanced and/or suited for solo and you should be aware of this already I assume because you are indeed playing solo.

    Archer/cleric has it's perks as already expertly described above, however is nothing I personally would ever use for anything but a flavor character.

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