Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

If I have a mage in team, which dual class should I go for?

Just asking, because everyone suggests mage double class for powerplay, but I didn't see suggested anywhere flavoured dual class that could be fun playing (apart from kensai thief, that is)

Comments

  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 1,041
    Of the standard jobs that you want in your party, the party thief is the easiest to perform with a low-level dualclass. Imoen and Nalia both go for this niche, but they are both dualclassed before getting the party-thief skills to 100.
    Well, the most important ones being Find Traps and Open Locks. But Set Traps could also be very handy. For example, you could make a Bounty Hunter-Mage dualclass. The power of the traps would be determined by your total levels (Mage+Bounty Hunter)/2. So it would take you a long time to get Maze traps. But if you have a second thief in your party (like Imoen), you could make the dualclass at a very low level (since Set Traps would be the only thief skill important to this character).

    Alternatively, you could take a few fighter levels before dualclassing to mage. Not to turn the character into a melee-monster, just to give them a few extra HP and the ability to wear a helm. If you go with the Berserker kit you would also get a very useful immunity to certain status effects (level drain, Imprisonment etc).

    Besides those options, the usefulness of dualclasses is very relative. A fighter dualclassed to mage in Baldur's Gate 1 will not be a very impressive swordsman in Baldur's Gate 2. And in Throne of Bhaal, the same character will basically just be a mage with a few extra HP as described above.
    Meanwhile, a fighter (or kensai) dualclassed in mid- to late Baldur's Gate 2 will be a terrific swordsman once the fighter levels are reactivated. Which will happen somewhere close to the end of Throne of Bhaal. So for most of the game you will have a rather unimpressive character.
    So you need to choose wisely when exactly you want what out of the character. Alternatively go multiclass.

    On the topic of high level thief multi-classes there are a few things to say:
    1) Since the thief HLAs are so cool, dualclassing TO thief is often preferable to dualclassing away from thief. Another reason to dualclass TO thief is the level progression. Thieves go up much faster than other classes, leading to a shorter down-time.
    2) A thief/mage combination will have access to invisibility spells. So you will not necessarily need high levels of Hide in Shadows/Move Silently. Raising these skills can be useful for saving resources though, if you are the sort of person who likes to chain backstabs.

    StromaelArthasSkatansemiticgoddess
  • StromaelStromael Member Posts: 194
    @Humanoid_Taifun I didn't realise the Bounty Hunter traps scale with the level of your second class, too. Very interesting!

    @Arthas the standard powergaming choice is Kensai or Berserker dualled to a Mage at 9 or 13 (9 is quite painless to reactivate, nets you grandmastery in one weapon, Specialisation in Two Weapon Style and full Fighter Hit Dice, 13 is quite painful to reactivate but should be compete before the end of SoA, and for your troubles you get an extra 8 Hit Points, an extra 1/2 Attack Per Round, and couple points better THAC0). Any later than 13 is an extremely late bloomer, and has few concrete advantages beyond slightly better THAC0 or GM in another weapon.

    With GM and 2WS Specialisation at Fighter 9 your character can wield a speed weapon in the off-hand (that add +1 APR to your main hand, e.g., Belm, Kundane) for a total APR of 4.5 (1 [base] + 1/2 [7th level] + 1 [GM] + 2 [DW Speed Weapon]), 3.5 of which are dedicated to the main hand by reason of game mechanics. If your Mage part can cast Improved Haste, then you double that to 9, of which 8 are MH.

    At 13th level by the same reasoning you can reach 10 APR (the game's hard cap), 9 of which are MH. That's like a really long duration Greater Whirlwind! Combine it with crazy weapons like Flail of Ages (33% chance of slowing your opponent) or Celestial Fury (Stun opponent if they fail a save) and those high APR really start to shine, upping the odds of activating one of those awesome effects.

    On top of that, as mentioned above, your Berserker gets neat instant combat/protective bonuses, making them very survivable. On the other hand, the Kensai will be competing with even high-level pure Fighters, well into ToB, thanks to the class' raw bonuses to THAC0 and damage. Plus, just imagine how much Kai wrecks opponents at 9 or 10 APR.

    There's a reason these class combinations are considered powergamey. As already remarked, it's a slow game building their power, but later on, you can end up with awesome Fighting skills at the cost of half a Mage level (at 9th-level dual); you're still super competitive with other Mages, and can dish out the debuffs, buff yourself to the gills, and toss the odd Area of Effect spell for good measure.

    Arthasgorgonzola
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
    Thanks to both. The truth is that I was looking for flavourful double class, rather than a powerful double class. But apart maybe from the barbarian druid I never saw anything else being suggested.

    @subtledoctor @Grammarsalad after installing your kit mods, is there any kit you find particular well done and fun for a EET playthrough ? Not necessarily dual class kits.

    Stromael
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,277
    Flavor is rather personal, but here's a few examples that aren't powergamey wihtout mods;

    low level mage to fighter: wands, find familiar, shield etc. Possible dual after level 4 or 6 spell slots if you want more versatility from mage.
    specialized mage to cleric: the mage specialization adds to cleric spells of the same domain, ie enchantment for Command etc. I'm no expert, but so I've read.
    Cleric of lathander low level dual to fighter (or thief) for boon of lathander.

    StromaelArthasgorgonzola
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    ArthasgorgonzolaStromael
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    Stromael wrote: »

    the standard powergaming choice is Kensai or Berserker dualled to a Mage at 9 or 13 (9 is quite painless to reactivate................

    With GM and 2WS Specialisation at Fighter 9 your character can wield a speed weapon in the off-hand (that add +1 APR to your main hand, e.g., Belm, Kundane) for a total APR of 4.5 (1 [base] + 1/2 [7th level] + 1 [GM] + 2 [DW Speed Weapon]), 3.5 of which are dedicated to the main hand by reason of game mechanics. If your Mage part can cast Improved Haste, then you double that to 9, of which 8 are MH.

    At 13th level by the same reasoning you can reach 10 APR (the game's hard cap), 9 of which are MH. That's like a really long duration Greater Whirlwind! Combine it with crazy weapons like Flail of Ages (33% chance of slowing your opponent) or Celestial Fury (Stun opponent if they fail a save) and those high APR really start to shine, upping the odds of activating one of those awesome effects.

    On top of that, as mentioned above, your Berserker gets neat instant combat/protective bonuses, making them very survivable. On the other hand, the Kensai will be competing with even high-level pure Fighters, well into ToB............
    about the 10 apr if i am not wrong in the original game you get 9 MH attacks, but in EE the things are different as the regular 6 sec round is split in 2 short rounds of 3 sec.
    so for each short round you have 4 MH and 1 OH attack for a grand total of 8 and 2.

    about dualing at 9 or 13 there is a 1M difference in the XP needed for the fighter class. this does not mean only that your F->M will complete the dual much earlier, but also that the 9 one will be 1 M ahead as mage xp. and this is really important as he will get much earlier high level spells and HLA, that for the dual don't come at 3M total xp like for multi, but at 3M xp in the given class.
    to be able to cast much earlier in the game (as the xp gain curve is not linear, the more you advance in the game the more xp you get for quests and kills of higher level enemies) key spells like simulacrum, that double your apr and later improved alacrity that combined with PI let you unleash whole spell books.
    imho as late game usually the well build party has already the power to overcome the toughest enemies it gives a tremendous advantage from mid soa to the point the lev 13 reaches 3M mage, somewhere in ToB, compared to 1/2 apr and some thac0 more.

    about the thac0 both will be well behind a pure fighter or a multi as they cap at 12 and 8, while the multi reaches 0. the kensai thac0 boost is not enough to comepnsate and in tob the 9 or 11 dual start to miss a lot more. so i find that to switch the OH speed weapon to crom (7 thac0 bonus from str and 14 dmg) is a wise choice.
    to get the gm in hammer so after underdark he can have 25 str and a OH speed weapon is an other possibility, weaker in the beginning but good up to the end of tob.

    StromaelArthas
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    edited November 2019
    Arthas wrote: »
    Thanks to both. The truth is that I was looking for flavourful double class, rather than a powerful double class.
    cleric of lathander11->M you get enough divine spells to be the only divine caster or to share the role with jaheira or aerie and you get 2 boons of lathander, that last 11 round each and can stack. so you can have +1apr for 22 rounds day, 2 hard battles, or stacking them +2 apr for 10 rounds with a round of +1 apr both before and after. so up to 8apr (cleric can not use speed weapons), but with the cleric buffs, mainly 25 str with no items needed.
    this being at xp cap a lev 28-29 mage.
    it is basically a build that can do most of the things the CM multi do
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47354/superaerie-power-tactics-for-the-c-m-spoilers
    being a weaker divine caster, but a much stronger arcane one. fighting wise you will get less thac0 and hp from your buffs compared to the multi but the kit gives you up to 2 more apr for the key battles.
    a lot of versatility, party utility, casting and somehow fighting power in a build with some flavor, but that is less used friendly then the classic F->M.

    T->F is also a good option if you plan to use nalia or imoen as you can put all your points in hiding in shadows, detect illusions or traps, you get a real thief functionality using 2 toons as imoen do the find trap and open door basic task and charname specializes in stabbing (4x at lev 9, for 5x you need to go up to 13, eventually assassin kit) or setting traps (bounty hunter kit).
    this being respectively a very strong mage and a very strong fighter in the end game.

    F->T is a classic, even if i prefer the multi version that gets both HLA pools. some players like to play K->T, i would never do it as it is a glass cannon until gets UAI, personal tastes...

    C->T is also an interesting option. as well as C->F. you get some basic divine casting (see C->M above), the kit bonuses if you start from the lathander kit (the +1 apr balances to be prevented to use speed weapons for the hardest battles) and add some cleric buffs to the thief (righteous magic gives automatic maxed damage roll, super important in stabbing) and fighter. both RM and DUHM give +1 str every 3 levels, RM gives also some more hp (and the maxed dmg roll) and DUHM rises con, even more hp, and dex, boosting AC. the dual at 12 is ideal as you get +4 buffs, 2 boons and more divine spells, 11 is a good option for C->T, the fighter does not really need to stack 2 boons, but 9 is perfectly viable and takes much less time, you still get 3+3 str bonus so you go in the hard battles with 25 str anyway starting from the 19 str belt, sparing the better ones to empower your other fighters.
    EDIT: don't use holy power with the last 2 builds or your rogue or fighter thac0 will be reverted to the one of a lev (whatever level you dual form) cleric.


    StromaelArthas
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Arthas
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    edited November 2019
    post cancelled by me

    Post edited by gorgonzola on
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
    edited November 2019
    @gorgonzola last time I loaded the page I skipped your posts without noticing it. Thank you too!

    gorgonzola
Sign In or Register to comment.