A Message to Larian Studios: They Should ALTER The Work on Baldur's Gate 3
kingnight
Member Posts: 54
I post my thread here because I can not register from their forums, my intention is to rally supporters to hold sway on their endeavor of ruining a 20 years old franchise, which is totally unacceptable!
Did you guys see the Baldur's Gate 3 game play demo on YouTube today, if not, go and do it now.
So what will we get in the future? It's not a 3rd title that has been long waited and expected by the community, but a Divinity 3 which just wrapped inside BG skin, will you guys accept that? The most significant feature of this so call "Baldur's Gate III" is that it is utterly turn-based combat system, which although having been predicted, but is still shocking by seeing it. I do not blame them using the turn-based system, and I do believe a good studio should always stick to what they are most capable of, but I also do believe that a great studio should at least show some respect to their predecessor, and by more to the massive long-term community who backing the franchise for over 20 years. But from what we get today, I have the prevision that the so call BG3 is not meaning for the BG community having been existing, but only meaning for the Divinity community of their own, and will you guys just accept that?
I wish the 3rd title should work just like the Pillars of Eternity 2 Dead Fire did, in which by choice the game can be played in full-turn-based system or real-time-turn-based system. I believe most of who diving into the BG franchise have their firm religion onto the real-time-turn-based system, it's not just the Baldur's Gate element, but also the D&D elelment, because there are so many titles following their steps: Icewind Dale, Planescape, Neverwinter, it has became a D&D code book, and by abandoning it, it's not a D&D game, not even mentioning a BG game at all. So why not Larian guys trying something new beyond their turn-based system? If they don't, then they shouldn't inherit the Baldur's Gate title, may be they should just create a new title of their own, just like the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, may be they should just call their game the Baldur's Gate: Illithid Invasion.
I believe no one ever questioning that the BG real-time-turn-based system defines the western PC RPG gaming style, it melt the gaps between action-style(which is fast paced and controlling) and the turn-base-style(which is sluggish and strategic) and bring them all together, and most importantly, we are REALLY REALLY REALLY enjoying it. So will you guys just sitting there and letting the Larian Studios ruining our dreams of two decades, and making one of the most influential gaming title into just another Divinity? Please don't let it happens, when there is still a chance. If you share my vision and have the consciousness, please back me up, support my thread, rally your friends, spread out our vision into other communities, and let the studio hear our voice.
I beg you guys!
Did you guys see the Baldur's Gate 3 game play demo on YouTube today, if not, go and do it now.
So what will we get in the future? It's not a 3rd title that has been long waited and expected by the community, but a Divinity 3 which just wrapped inside BG skin, will you guys accept that? The most significant feature of this so call "Baldur's Gate III" is that it is utterly turn-based combat system, which although having been predicted, but is still shocking by seeing it. I do not blame them using the turn-based system, and I do believe a good studio should always stick to what they are most capable of, but I also do believe that a great studio should at least show some respect to their predecessor, and by more to the massive long-term community who backing the franchise for over 20 years. But from what we get today, I have the prevision that the so call BG3 is not meaning for the BG community having been existing, but only meaning for the Divinity community of their own, and will you guys just accept that?
I wish the 3rd title should work just like the Pillars of Eternity 2 Dead Fire did, in which by choice the game can be played in full-turn-based system or real-time-turn-based system. I believe most of who diving into the BG franchise have their firm religion onto the real-time-turn-based system, it's not just the Baldur's Gate element, but also the D&D elelment, because there are so many titles following their steps: Icewind Dale, Planescape, Neverwinter, it has became a D&D code book, and by abandoning it, it's not a D&D game, not even mentioning a BG game at all. So why not Larian guys trying something new beyond their turn-based system? If they don't, then they shouldn't inherit the Baldur's Gate title, may be they should just create a new title of their own, just like the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, may be they should just call their game the Baldur's Gate: Illithid Invasion.
I believe no one ever questioning that the BG real-time-turn-based system defines the western PC RPG gaming style, it melt the gaps between action-style(which is fast paced and controlling) and the turn-base-style(which is sluggish and strategic) and bring them all together, and most importantly, we are REALLY REALLY REALLY enjoying it. So will you guys just sitting there and letting the Larian Studios ruining our dreams of two decades, and making one of the most influential gaming title into just another Divinity? Please don't let it happens, when there is still a chance. If you share my vision and have the consciousness, please back me up, support my thread, rally your friends, spread out our vision into other communities, and let the studio hear our voice.
I beg you guys!
Post edited by kingnight on
1
Comments
Of course, there's not a lack of RTWP RPG games to play, but there's a lack of 8 generation D&D RTWP RPG game to play. Larian Studio can always make the game they wanted to make, but not by twisting a classical title. If they had used their own title, then there would be no argument at all. Just think about what is the intention that they using the BG title, isn't it that they want to attract the attention of the BG community, and they doing this by the means of twisting our will into one of their own, and as a fan you just let it happens without even a word? But by saying that, I even doubt if you are a fan at all.
I have already do that.
I think it's troubling that certain people here want to class certain fans as lesser than, merely because you have an emotional reaction to BG3. I'm sorry but your emotions about this series don't make you a better or more representative fan than me. And, I'm sorry but some perspective, these are just entertainment products. They should be enjoyed of course, but you should not identify this closely with products that you're merely a consumer of.
I think it's good that you came out and stated this. I think a big unspoken assumption being made by folks arguing that Larian has betrayed the soul of the series is that certain consumers in the marketplace are more deserving than others. And that studios have some kind of obligation to cater to a smaller, but more vocal fanbase.
Yes. Let's all try to keep things civil and refrain from personal attacks, please. The fact that we are here means that we are fans of the IE games. Just because some of us like or plan to get BG3 does not suddenly nullify the fact that we STILL love the old IE games.
For what it's worth, I still think BG3 should not have adopted the name because it brings along certain expectations. From what I've seen so far, BG3 looks like it has potential to be a fun 5E D&D game, which is why I most likely will get it, but does it really have anything to do with the Bhaalspawn saga? No, because that story is closed. Finished. We might see some Easter Eggs and a cameo or two (maybe even Minsc as a party member, if I'm speculating), but basically BG3 should be considered a wholly separate game in a wholly separate series. Think of it that way, if it'll help.
Isn't that pretty much the entirety of pop culture at this point?? I mean, Disney listened to these voices when making "Rise of Skywalker", and guess what they found out?? That the people they were trying to appease cannot actually be satisfied. The game nowadays isn't the actual product. The enjoyment doesn't come from a big fight with a dragon or a lich. That thrill, that high, now comes from being really pissed about a movie or a game (though strangely, never an album). ESPECIALLY if you think that game or movie is somehow "betraying" your childhood, or even your early-20s.
There is a real sense among millions of people that they personally "own" these titles and properties because of what they meant to them. I have been 100% guilty of it in the past. I felt that way about "Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull". I know I probably used the words "killed my childhood" about it at some point, long before it was fashionable. But over the years, I simply haven't watched it again. It was easy enough. It's not worth being pissed over. The thing about Baldur's Gate 3 is, it has very little chance of actually being a "bad" game. It's just not going to be what everyone wanted.
But what does everyone want?? Beamdog already did a 25-30 hour bridge campaign in the Infinity Engine. The original Bioware team are all at different studios or different professions entirely. Who should have made it?? Obsidian?? They spent the last half decade making RTwP games, and they've moved on to The Outer Worlds. Owlcat?? Clearly they were interested in finally bringing Pathfinder into the mix, and they did a damn fine job of it. inXile?? Don't make me laugh on that one. Siege of Dragonspear was a niche title. It just so happened to be a niche title that also got review bombed by an internet hate mob (and I've gone over the ridiculousness of the statistics of that incident on various sites numerous times). They were never going to give BG3 to them after that incident. It was the exact same mentality that is now aimed at Larian. The sense of betrayal because something isn't exactly as you imagine in your head it should be. It has completely overtaken Youtube, and thus, the culture.
Dunno, listening to the fanbase did wonders to the recent Sonic movie. All because the initial outrage of their original blue hedgehog aberration was utterly abysmal on all accounts.
And what a successful film it had become.
This game has the potential to be an amazing franchise by itself at this point. From what I have seen, this could have been the next great D&D franchise.
Instead WotC attempted to piggyback off of nostalgia isolating a part of their fan base, and for what? What is gained by calling this BG3?
Not to derail the thread, but as a Nintendo fan I never really followed the Sonic movie much. Is it actually a GOOD movie? (Which would be quite a shock because by and large nearly all video game to movie adaptations were either creative disasters or campy but somehow endearing.)
However, Sonic the Hedgehog made over $200M in worldwide gross from box office since its release on February 13th. In comparison: that's half of what Detective Pikachu managed within about a year. It's user score on metacritic is currently 8.5 and it has a score 6,8 on imdb. It certainly saw success with Jim Carrey back in his goofey role of old.
I think Larian's vision on the Baldur's Gate heritage is rather similar to that of Wizards of the Coast: the old games were epic, but the world has moved on, D&D targets a changed demographic, and while nostalgia calls for doing the same thing over and over, that always has diminishing returns.
Hear hear brother! What upsets me about some of the arguments being made is that there's a second, more troubling assumption, that has nothing to do with me. It's that people think other people's work, other people's labor needs to be conscripted for their personal satisfaction. I'm sorry but the employees at Larian or even Disney, aren't our servants. They are employees at a company, most of them are not super wealthy either.
They are allowed to do their jobs however they want. Look, if you want to boycott as a fan that's fine. For example, I liked the original Star Wars trilogy a lot. I've never seen Episode 2 and probably won't see the latest one ever either. I wouldn't say I'm boycotting anything, I just can't be motivated to see things that have been panned by people I trust. But I really wish some folks would understand that when they insist these things are "betrayals" or whatever, that the logical consequence of the argument they're making, is that people owe them their labor.
This is well said too. The thing is, a big chunk of even hardcore BG fans have moved on from video games in part or sometimes in whole. The age group old enough to have bought these games around release generally has less time for games, especially 100 hour RPG kinds. Larian has to make a product that's profitable, and so they have to respect the market.
Larian didn't think anything of BG. That was just cynical spin t try and keep fans of the originals on board. This was made abundantly clear when it was revealed that Sven never even played through the games.
I just fired up PoE, which I could never get Into, and now I have a newfound appreciation for it.
Yes. Yes, they did. I honestly wasn't going to bring this up because I have a feeling people are still fired up about this, but it needs to be said in more detail and context.
Beamdog gave the community exactly what it clamored for, more Baldur's Gate. They were incredibly forthright in what they could and couldn't do. It was RTwP. It could not have been closer to the source material. They brought back David Werner and Jim Cummings among other excellent voice actors. The game had a startling amount of choices that affected the mid and late game. More than ever what your class, race, and stats were determined how the world reacted to you. Some would say this is exactly what people making a wish list for BG3 would have written down. It still wasn't enough.
And the community almost ate itself alive, "fans" took great liberty in s!@#ing on anything they could, the forums were infiltrated by all manner of trolls and wind up merchants, they questioned how the writers could have the AUDACITY to include an unthinkable scenario in a setting where literally anything is possible, many were banned and worse many were tainted by "the passions" of the community. The game was review bombed. It was an absolute s!@#show.
So I don't even envy Larian at this point. But the community should do well to heed the past. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Swen came out and said, "Not for nothing, but we actually have a recent case study that tells us we're better off sticking to what we know." They've already said the latter bit. But @jjstraka34 is only the second person I've seen bring up SoD and it's relevant.
"You, will, learn."
If you got unlucky and played it at launch and only then, I have to say it's a lot better now. The White March content especially shines. Makes me sad they scrapped so much of combat mechanics in Deadfire, because they had clearly learned alot, and had made dungeon crawling super great in WM.
Everything is well said in this post.
One thing that I think the Larian critics are relying on is some sense that their views are more representative of the BG fanbase or whatever. But there's no evidence for this. But as you point out, there is no consensus among this fanbase. It's a disparate fan base with different takes on what RPG features are good or necessary.
Larian needs to make a game that will succeed in today's market. And, I'm sorry, but they're much more the experts on that subject than anyone here.
Agree. It really begged the question, “are there really this many trolls among us?”
It was more than new accounts. Long time posters here lost their rag over SoD.
Funny bit about TB vs RTwP, PC mag did a survey and it was like 54 to 46% in favor of TB. There are loads of fans in both areas.
https://www.geek.com/games/return-of-the-king-an-interview-with-baldurs-gate-iii-producer-david-walgrave-1819466/?utm_medium=socialflow&utm_source=twitter
The producer. 'His player base', that are the players of Larian games.
If PoE, Tyranny, and Deadfire could only manage to get diminishing returns on a medium value production, it is evident that high production values for Baldur's Gate 3, with 300 people working on it, need a much wider player base than the isometric rtwp diehards.
Balder's Gate 3 will have to be different from BG2, otherwise it cannot return its investment.
I can forgive Larian for the Divinity playstyle. I honestly didn't expect a modern day top down isometric game; Dragon Age Origins was it's death knell for RPGs, anyhow.
The problems with this game are two fold; first, lore-based decisions by WOTC that are beyond Larian's control, namely what happened to the "canonical" Bhaalspawn Abdel, and the return of Bhaal. Second, claiming this game is Baldur's Gate 3, which it is clearly not, that IS in Larian's control. You can call it Baldur's Gate: The Illithid Invasion or Baldur's Gate: The Mind Flayer Attack or Baldur's Gate: 100 Years Later. Or as was said in this thread, you could call it Yartar: the Arrival. But one thing you cannot honestly call it is Baldur's gate 3. Yes, the world has moved on, so let your branding reflect that fact, thanks. And being upset about it does not make one a troll. Skyrim wasn't called Oblivion 2.