I'm fine with what I've seen of Baldur's Gate 3 and I was fine with Siege of Dragonspear.
Also, they might not have called Skyrim "Oblivion 2" but they did call it The Elder Scrolls V, and if you think people didn't complain that IV (Oblivion) didn't tie into III (Morrowind) enough, then you definitely missed out on some mid-2000s complaints.
@ThacoBell if thinking that makes you feel better then that’s fine Like I said before, you’re very welcome to your opinion but it is exactly that, Your opinion! And that is also a FACT
Cool. Can you demonstrate how this is a sequel to BG2 then?
@ThacoBell not that it’s going to make the slightest bit of difference to you because your mind is already made up.
I think that from what I’ve read and heard and correct me if I am wrong but the most attractive piece of info so far story wise is the involvement of the cult and the Dead Three. If this game is following official D&D lore then I believe that Bhaal is one of the dead 3 as he has been resurrected? My point of view on the matter is that one of major story elements that made Baldur’s Gate was Bhaal. Let’s be honest he started it all. If there is a chance that he is now going to be involved In the story as a possible antagonist then that is a pretty decent link and more than enough for me. The fact is without Bhaal there is no Baldur’s Gate 1&2. I think it would be very fitting that he is involved somehow in part of the story for Baldur’s Gate 3. Obviously this is not confirmed and just speculation but I have read that the Dead Three are involved in the plot so I’m just putting pieces together. This part could end up leading to nothing.
I also think a nice touch (even though only really in terms of nostalgia) is the running theme that they are trying to follow of having a great power inside of you and how you respond and use it. That was always a very strong theme of Baldur’s Gate 1&2 and I like the little nod to it here.
I could list some of the gameplay elements we have seen that I think are good continuations but you have made it very clear that you think ‘No Reak Time With Pause’ means no Baldur’s Gate so I don’t see the point in engaging with you on that matter as it is a definite matter of opinion.
I would also like to point out that I’m only engaging in this discussion with you because I like the idea of discussing possible story elements with anyone
How can people write off the game so soon. Maybe the main storyline ties in flawlessly with the bhaalspawn saga. No one has any evidence for it one way or the other. I am sure they will not leak heavy spoilers on the storyline yet.
How can people write off the game so soon. Maybe the main storyline ties in flawlessly with the bhaalspawn saga. No one has any evidence for it one way or the other. I am sure they will not leak heavy spoilers on the storyline yet.
I think a lot of people like to believe they have more information than they actually do. But you make a great point that cannot be said too frequently, imo.
@byrne20 Having bhaal involved doesn't demonstrate a continuation of BG2's story though. He was DEAD at the end of it. It undoes everything the player works towards in the previous games. Its like "rocks fall, everyone dies" except that everyone dies AND the big bad is better off than ever.
How can people write off the game so soon. Maybe the main storyline ties in flawlessly with the bhaalspawn saga. No one has any evidence for it one way or the other. I am sure they will not leak heavy spoilers on the storyline yet.
It can't because the game is assuming p&p and novel tie in. You can't flawlessly tie into the previous games' narrative if bhaal is alive. It directly contradicts the win-state of BG2. Not to mention the bhaalspawn being the Abdel from the novels' canon.
Gods are resurrected all of the time In Forgotten Realms. The overarching point of BG1 and 2 was that Bhaal had foreseen his own death and was trying to be resurrected.
Who is to say that he couldn’t have had multiple plans? It seems entirely plausible that a deity as powerful as Bhaal would have had more than one plan.
@ThacoBell i don’t think at this point you could ever claim to be reasonable but let’s stop this now as it’s getting out of hand and I’m done with you. The fact is your opinion is never gonna have any bearing on my enjoyment of Baldur’s Gate 3 when it’s released. Let’s just leave it at that.
@BallpointMan Ah yes. The fine tradition of "Pull it out of your butt." Truely an example of excellent writing.
I don’t really see how this rebuts my point. You asked how to get around his being dead at the end of ToB. Seeing as how the whole point of the series is that he is trying to be reborn, the idea that he has been reborn would be right in line with the series.
Edit - no need to be patronizing. I had thought we all wanted to move past that. I already apologized when I started getting that way a few days ago.
@ThacoBell i don’t think at this point you could ever claim to be reasonable but let’s stop this now as it’s getting out of hand and I’m done with you. The fact is your opinion is never gonna have any bearing on my enjoyment of Baldur’s Gate 3 when it’s released. Let’s just leave it at that.
I have not directly insulted anyone. Your comment was entirely unneccesary. Having a different opinion from you does not make me unreasonable. Me not liking the direction Larian is going is equally as valid as you liking it Stop acting like me being unconvinced makes me a bad person in any way.
@BallpointMan Ah yes. The fine tradition of "Pull it out of your butt." Truely an example of excellent writing.
I don’t really see how this rebuts my point. You asked how to get around his being dead at the end of ToB. Seeing as how the whole point of the series is that he is trying to be reborn, the idea that he has been reborn would be right in line with the series.
Edit - no need to be patronizing. I had thought we all wanted to move past that. I already apologized when I started getting that way a few days ago.
Considering that the whole point of BG was to end Bhaal's taint, no. I don't think bringing him back is at all fitting for the series.
@byrne20 Having bhaal involved doesn't demonstrate a continuation of BG2's story though. He was DEAD at the end of it. It undoes everything the player works towards in the previous games. Its like "rocks fall, everyone dies" except that everyone dies AND the big bad is better off than ever.
@BallpointMan Ah yes. The fine tradition of "Pull it out of your butt." Truely an example of excellent writing.
And yet that is how the Bioware writers handled the BG2 plot. Imoen was dead (together with about every other thief) at the end of my BG1 run. And yet here she was, and not only that, but she was the "unique snowflake" Bhaalspawn-edition: she could be resurrected! No dustification for her.
By your own rules BG2 is not a sequel to BG1, because it breaks off from the lore it established in the first part, and actively undoes the choices (and the consequences of those choices) the player made in BG1.
Yeah, I mean criticizing "pulling things out of your butt" in the fantasy genre is just... I dunno. I can't see how you could like any fantasy plot that way! I mean the destruction of the One Ring in LOTR...
@byrne20 Having bhaal involved doesn't demonstrate a continuation of BG2's story though. He was DEAD at the end of it. It undoes everything the player works towards in the previous games. Its like "rocks fall, everyone dies" except that everyone dies AND the big bad is better off than ever.
@BallpointMan Ah yes. The fine tradition of "Pull it out of your butt." Truely an example of excellent writing.
And yet that is how the Bioware writers handled the BG2 plot. Imoen was dead (together with about every other thief) at the end of my BG1 run. And yet here she was, and not only that, but she was the "unique snowflake" Bhaalspawn-edition: she could be resurrected! No dustification for her.
By your own rules BG2 is not a sequel to BG1, because it breaks off from the lore it established in the first part, and actively undoes the choices (and the consequences of those choices) the player made in BG1.
So let me get this straight. Because you let Imoen die in BG1, a game that was made in, I think, 2002 should somehow have a way to track that specific state, even though no one had ever been able to state tracking of that level to that point? And because of this, BG2 shouldn't be a sequel to BG1? Somehow I don't find this very sincere.
Something you forgot to mention, is that Imoen only came back as a central character because the fans wanted it. BIoware and Black Isle listened to feedback from the fans of BG1. Something that Larian refuses to do, trudging on with dos3.
@byrne20 Having bhaal involved doesn't demonstrate a continuation of BG2's story though. He was DEAD at the end of it. It undoes everything the player works towards in the previous games. Its like "rocks fall, everyone dies" except that everyone dies AND the big bad is better off than ever.
@BallpointMan Ah yes. The fine tradition of "Pull it out of your butt." Truely an example of excellent writing.
And yet that is how the Bioware writers handled the BG2 plot. Imoen was dead (together with about every other thief) at the end of my BG1 run. And yet here she was, and not only that, but she was the "unique snowflake" Bhaalspawn-edition: she could be resurrected! No dustification for her.
By your own rules BG2 is not a sequel to BG1, because it breaks off from the lore it established in the first part, and actively undoes the choices (and the consequences of those choices) the player made in BG1.
So let me get this straight. Because you let Imoen die in BG1, a game that was made in, I think, 2002 should somehow have a way to track that specific state, even though no one had ever been able to state tracking of that level to that point? And because of this, BG2 shouldn't be a sequel to BG1? Somehow I don't find this very sincere.
Something you forgot to mention, is that Imoen only came back as a central character because the fans wanted it. BIoware and Black Isle listened to feedback from the fans of BG1. Something that Larian refuses to do, trudging on with dos3.
@byrne20 Having bhaal involved doesn't demonstrate a continuation of BG2's story though. He was DEAD at the end of it. It undoes everything the player works towards in the previous games. Its like "rocks fall, everyone dies" except that everyone dies AND the big bad is better off than ever.
@BallpointMan Ah yes. The fine tradition of "Pull it out of your butt." Truely an example of excellent writing.
And yet that is how the Bioware writers handled the BG2 plot. Imoen was dead (together with about every other thief) at the end of my BG1 run. And yet here she was, and not only that, but she was the "unique snowflake" Bhaalspawn-edition: she could be resurrected! No dustification for her.
By your own rules BG2 is not a sequel to BG1, because it breaks off from the lore it established in the first part, and actively undoes the choices (and the consequences of those choices) the player made in BG1.
So let me get this straight. Because you let Imoen die in BG1, a game that was made in, I think, 2002 should somehow have a way to track that specific state, even though no one had ever been able to state tracking of that level to that point? And because of this, BG2 shouldn't be a sequel to BG1? Somehow I don't find this very sincere.
Something you forgot to mention, is that Imoen only came back as a central character because the fans wanted it. BIoware and Black Isle listened to feedback from the fans of BG1. Something that Larian refuses to do, trudging on with dos3.
We’re fans too : )
It'd be nice Larian would listen to more than half of us...
Oh you should see some of the people on Larian's forums about DOS2 back when it was first released. There will always be critiques but that is -not- a bad thing. I think echo chambers are unproductive for making strong ideas and thoughts. Exchanging clashing opinions, as long as it is done healthily and politely, is a very good thing.
I respect Thacobell's opinion even if I do not agree with it at all. I think Larian should always listen to fans, even if they do not act on their criticism. There are other ways to add more of BG's spirit to the game beyond real time with pause, and I hope to see more of that, specifically with some remarks about events in BG2/BG1, or use of those characters that could still be alive.
@Legendary its only a small portion of the original fans that are not on board. Don’t take to much that you see in here to serious. Some people are just upset because things haven’t worked out how they would envision them. I’ve seen almost overwhelming positivity feedback on nearly every other group I’ve been involved with.
On the plus side I saw some new gameplay posted on Facebook earlier. Looks amazing not sure if it’s been posted on here yet but it shows a fight with a bunch of goblins. Also shows the animation for Magic Missile Looks great ??
It'd be nice Larian would listen to more than half of us...
Not all fan feedback is useful. In fact, a lot of it is downright useless. In Larian's position, I'd just have to ignore everyone demanding that foundational design principles be abandoned.
Just want to clarify something. As far as I know, Bhaal and the other gods being resurrected has already happened in 5e lore, and that is done by WoTC. I think it's not being done as part of BG3, and has nothing to do with Larian regardless. BG3 is following up on 5e lore, in the direction that WoTC wants(or at least agrees). So BG3 will not be a direct continuation of BG1&2 as those belong to 2e lore, which is way in the past now.
This is all my understanding though, could be wrong. Regardless, I watched and hated everything I saw regarding BG3 sample gameplay. The only thing I liked was the initial cinematic shown last year with ceremorphosis (I didn't like this new one with dragon riders for sure).
The reason I don't like has nothing to do with BG3 not being a continuation of the story of BG1-2. After all, the cancelled Black Hound game would also be unrelated to BG1-2. I have no problems with that. The main reason for my dislike is the game doesn't feel like a BG game at all to me. And not just because the combat is turn based, or it's not isometric 2D etc (I still love playing Might and Magic games which are neither RTwP nor Isometric).
Based on what I've seen, the combat, the characters, the atmosphere, the graphics, the camera, the voicing, the encounters, basically nothing feels like a BG game. I'm okay with improvements to a game from 20 years ago, but these are just changes to BG, not improvements in my subjective opinion. The end result is just a Divinity game, with BG title and some selected D&D rules mixed with some strange Larian mechanics like superhero jumps or dipping a wooden bow into fire and still being able to use it (seriously? bow itself, not arrows?). I would even be more interested if this was named DOS3, as at least they would stick to their own system, instead of the mixed bag we see now.
Thus, even as a huge RPG and in particular D&D games fan, I have 0 interest in this game and wouldn't waste my time even if it was given to me for free. Based on what I have seen so far, I believe I have enough information to make an informed decision. Luckily we have lots of great games already out there and more great ones upcoming, so I couldn't care less about the end result of BG3.
Yeah, Bhaal's resurrection is described in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide as a consequence of the events in "Murder in Baldur's Gate" module, I think.
Comments
Also, they might not have called Skyrim "Oblivion 2" but they did call it The Elder Scrolls V, and if you think people didn't complain that IV (Oblivion) didn't tie into III (Morrowind) enough, then you definitely missed out on some mid-2000s complaints.
Cool. Can you demonstrate how this is a sequel to BG2 then?
I think that from what I’ve read and heard and correct me if I am wrong but the most attractive piece of info so far story wise is the involvement of the cult and the Dead Three. If this game is following official D&D lore then I believe that Bhaal is one of the dead 3 as he has been resurrected? My point of view on the matter is that one of major story elements that made Baldur’s Gate was Bhaal. Let’s be honest he started it all. If there is a chance that he is now going to be involved In the story as a possible antagonist then that is a pretty decent link and more than enough for me. The fact is without Bhaal there is no Baldur’s Gate 1&2. I think it would be very fitting that he is involved somehow in part of the story for Baldur’s Gate 3. Obviously this is not confirmed and just speculation but I have read that the Dead Three are involved in the plot so I’m just putting pieces together. This part could end up leading to nothing.
I also think a nice touch (even though only really in terms of nostalgia) is the running theme that they are trying to follow of having a great power inside of you and how you respond and use it. That was always a very strong theme of Baldur’s Gate 1&2 and I like the little nod to it here.
I could list some of the gameplay elements we have seen that I think are good continuations but you have made it very clear that you think ‘No Reak Time With Pause’ means no Baldur’s Gate so I don’t see the point in engaging with you on that matter as it is a definite matter of opinion.
I would also like to point out that I’m only engaging in this discussion with you because I like the idea of discussing possible story elements with anyone
I think a lot of people like to believe they have more information than they actually do. But you make a great point that cannot be said too frequently, imo.
It can't because the game is assuming p&p and novel tie in. You can't flawlessly tie into the previous games' narrative if bhaal is alive. It directly contradicts the win-state of BG2. Not to mention the bhaalspawn being the Abdel from the novels' canon.
Who is to say that he couldn’t have had multiple plans? It seems entirely plausible that a deity as powerful as Bhaal would have had more than one plan.
Writing can never be criticised, got it. Thanks for the ad hominem btw. It really shows how reasonable you are.
I don’t really see how this rebuts my point. You asked how to get around his being dead at the end of ToB. Seeing as how the whole point of the series is that he is trying to be reborn, the idea that he has been reborn would be right in line with the series.
Edit - no need to be patronizing. I had thought we all wanted to move past that. I already apologized when I started getting that way a few days ago.
I have not directly insulted anyone. Your comment was entirely unneccesary. Having a different opinion from you does not make me unreasonable. Me not liking the direction Larian is going is equally as valid as you liking it Stop acting like me being unconvinced makes me a bad person in any way.
Considering that the whole point of BG was to end Bhaal's taint, no. I don't think bringing him back is at all fitting for the series.
Enough chitchat. Give me some sugar, baby. ~ Neera
Now, let's skip the small talk and get straight to the killing. ~ Drasus
Please stop those & follow the Site Rules. ~ me
Yeah, I mean criticizing "pulling things out of your butt" in the fantasy genre is just... I dunno. I can't see how you could like any fantasy plot that way! I mean the destruction of the One Ring in LOTR...
So let me get this straight. Because you let Imoen die in BG1, a game that was made in, I think, 2002 should somehow have a way to track that specific state, even though no one had ever been able to state tracking of that level to that point? And because of this, BG2 shouldn't be a sequel to BG1? Somehow I don't find this very sincere.
Something you forgot to mention, is that Imoen only came back as a central character because the fans wanted it. BIoware and Black Isle listened to feedback from the fans of BG1. Something that Larian refuses to do, trudging on with dos3.
We’re fans too : )
It'd be nice Larian would listen to more than half of us...
Stay mad I guess. I never imagined there were BG fans not hyped for this until I found this thread.
I respect Thacobell's opinion even if I do not agree with it at all. I think Larian should always listen to fans, even if they do not act on their criticism. There are other ways to add more of BG's spirit to the game beyond real time with pause, and I hope to see more of that, specifically with some remarks about events in BG2/BG1, or use of those characters that could still be alive.
On the plus side I saw some new gameplay posted on Facebook earlier. Looks amazing
Not all fan feedback is useful. In fact, a lot of it is downright useless. In Larian's position, I'd just have to ignore everyone demanding that foundational design principles be abandoned.
This is all my understanding though, could be wrong. Regardless, I watched and hated everything I saw regarding BG3 sample gameplay. The only thing I liked was the initial cinematic shown last year with ceremorphosis (I didn't like this new one with dragon riders for sure).
The reason I don't like has nothing to do with BG3 not being a continuation of the story of BG1-2. After all, the cancelled Black Hound game would also be unrelated to BG1-2. I have no problems with that. The main reason for my dislike is the game doesn't feel like a BG game at all to me. And not just because the combat is turn based, or it's not isometric 2D etc (I still love playing Might and Magic games which are neither RTwP nor Isometric).
Based on what I've seen, the combat, the characters, the atmosphere, the graphics, the camera, the voicing, the encounters, basically nothing feels like a BG game. I'm okay with improvements to a game from 20 years ago, but these are just changes to BG, not improvements in my subjective opinion. The end result is just a Divinity game, with BG title and some selected D&D rules mixed with some strange Larian mechanics like superhero jumps or dipping a wooden bow into fire and still being able to use it (seriously? bow itself, not arrows?). I would even be more interested if this was named DOS3, as at least they would stick to their own system, instead of the mixed bag we see now.
Thus, even as a huge RPG and in particular D&D games fan, I have 0 interest in this game and wouldn't waste my time even if it was given to me for free. Based on what I have seen so far, I believe I have enough information to make an informed decision. Luckily we have lots of great games already out there and more great ones upcoming, so I couldn't care less about the end result of BG3.