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How do you resist the temptation of larceny?

I will make a confession. So, I have a very bad habit, an urge that gets hold of me, and that I just cannot shake off. This thing starts with me getting Jan in my party, obtaining a couple of potions of master thievery, and then going on a mega shoplifting spree all throughout Athkatla. Even worse, I always keep using the (steal-sell)^n exploit with the black market shadow thief, and then end up procuring immense sums of money (yeah, I know I could just use EEKeeper, but this is more satisfying and can be done within the game's premise itself), which I then use to buy all the good stuff from the shops where you cannot steal the items, the juicy magical items! I also use this tactic to "recharge" all the single charge wands from Irenicus' Dungeon. I always keep thinking, I will do only this much and not more, but I end up succumbing to my larcenous ambitions. Something tells me, I can do this, just because I can do this.

This obviously kills the fun afterwards. But then I think to myself, if I don't steal everything, I am not using my pickpocket skills to its full potential, and thus playing the game sub-optimally. Also even though steal-sell doesn't make sense realistically, I still feel myself obliged to do it, just because I can do it. I just don't get it. How much is too much? I also wonder if I should allow myself to "recharge" wands or not. I am also constantly worried if I will get enough money just doing all the quests legitimately, in order to be able to buy all the powerful items. Is there enough money to be earned legitimately in the game to fulfill my ambition of acquiring ALL the good magic stuff?

I am in a serious dilemma about all this, so I ask this question: to steal or not to steal? What do YOU do?

How do you resist the temptation of larceny? 34 votes

Steal everything and also use the steal-sell exploit to get infinite money
14%
KamigoroshiBalrog99DhariusStummvonBordwehrRik_Kirtaniya 5 votes
Steal everything and use the steal-sell exploit, but only ONCE
8%
Petyconkaja8JQuailman 3 votes
Steal everything, and use the steal-sell exploit, but only to "recharge" wands
5%
PiqueroMartinW 2 votes
Steal everything, but NOT use the steal-sell exploit
8%
jsavingRyz009mercifulhop 3 votes
Steal everything from NPCs and chests, but not from store windows (i.e. the buy-sell box)
5%
KhyronTESGuides 2 votes
Steal, but only from certain NPCs whom you discriminate as targets because of their alignment or a personal disliking you have towards them or whatever
5%
IseweinArachnus 2 votes
Don't steal anything, but "recharge" wands by selling and then BUYING them
14%
DanacmmessyAdam_en_tiumArviawuke 5 votes
Don't steal anything and also don't "recharge" wands
17%
BelgarathMTHMeraNoonThacoBellLord_TansheronJGP 6 votes
Just ignore all the hassle and moral dilemma like an ascended intellectual, by EEKeeper-ing yourself anything and everything you desire
0%
Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
17%
JuliusBorisovOrlonKronsteenAerakargorgonzolaZaxaresRedRodent 6 votes
JuliusBorisovOrlonKronsteenBalrog99MartinWlolienAerakar
«1

Comments

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,576
    edited May 18
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    fist of all i don't do it every play trough, as infinite money, valuable items early and fully charged wands make the game easier and sometimes i like to have more challenge, to have to choose what i will prioritize to buy and to have to actually wait to have the best items.

    but i often recharge my wands, i often steal a lot and i often use infinite money tactics by selling and stealing.
    i voted other for one reason, i do it but i have my self given rules that are basically 3, even if sometimes i don't use the rule n.3

    1. i never stack 2 identical thieving potions. i consider to steal and pick pocket as integral part of the power of a thief, but i find dumb that even nalia can become the better one at it just staking potions to boost skills that she does not really have. i feel that my thieves have to actually invest skill points in this super powerful skill if they want to use it, at the cost of having other skills developed later or maybe never developed if they are dual class from thief. but i allow me to stack different types of thieving potions.
    2. i never sell to the same fence something that i have steal from him, so i can buy the robe of vecna, then sell it to a regular merchant and steal it from him then go to a fence and repeat to get back part of the price i had payed the robe, but then i will no more sell to the same fence that robe again, even if i can go to an other fence and repeat. in my bg2 world the fences don't magically share with the other ones that they had items stolen from them, and they don do it also in not magical ways as they have a reputation, a face to save, even if the may work for the same organization i see them as free lance fences. but they are not idiots that don't notice that you sell them 10 times in a row the same valuable if not unique item.
    3. if i fail stealing or pick pocketing i accept the consequences and don't reload. as i told not always use this self given rule, but i should probably use it always. to steal is a great power that should come with a great risk, the risk to have a merchant and his precious stuff no more available.

    i feel that, at least for me, those 3 rules make all the difference. the difference between a skilled thief that uses his skill, maybe boosted, but only to a certain extent, like also fighters and other classes can boos their skills using potions and items, to a great result and a nalia that stacking enough potions makes you the richest person of amn with all the best equipment right in the first day of cap 2.

    OrlonKronsteenlolienRik_KirtaniyaAerakar
  • RedRodentRedRodent Member Posts: 33
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    I 've always had trouble not going to town on innocent NPCs cupboards and drawers in my playthroughs, but as I've grown older and more appreciative of actually roleplaying my characters, these urges seemed to have calmed themselves. I guess I always have had a hoarding mentality (same reason my potions and wands waste away in my bags), so setting up rules for myself helps with this. It also gives me reasons to go all-out whenever I play someone of dubious morals.

    gorgonzolalolienRik_KirtaniyaAerakar
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,576
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    Since there is always a 1% risk of getting spotted, I prefer not to steal en masse.
    from this point of view talking of stealing from shops it is better to sell and steal the same expensive item to a fence, ie a wand that you don't plan to use, and use the money to buy the items then to steal the items directly from the shops.
    if you fail you only loose that particular fence and that particular item, and as long as the item is not a key item, like let's say the robe of vecna, you can live without them with almost no problem. there are other fences and other wands and you loose only some rep.

    to pick pocket is different but there are very few items that is really worth it to risk, in soa i would say only the regeneration ring and maybe the 2 +2 protection rings from terminsel, the scrolls from the amnish guards are useful but in a no reload you can live without them.

    i can not do it as i don't allow myself to sell and steal more then one time every item from a fence, but for those that do it it is certainly better to steal many times the same costly item from roger then to try to steal every single scroll and low cost item from every shopkeeper, both in an allowed reload and in a no reload setting.

    lolienRik_Kirtaniya
  • Ryz009Ryz009 Member Posts: 52
    Steal everything, but NOT use the steal-sell exploit
    I tend to steal if I can get away with it.

    Don't tend to use pickpocket unless I know the person has something good. Can't be bothered with the reload spam lol.

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,558
    Don't steal anything and also don't "recharge" wands
    I feel so lonely in my choice, haha.

    I just feel bad stealing from people. Even digital ones.

    OrlonKronsteenlolienRik_Kirtaniya
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 762
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    It depends on my run and my RP concept. I rarely even try playing evil anymore (and usually quit all my evil runs early), so my stealing has been greatly reduced. But I laughed aloud reading the OP - I've had the same temptation with Jan for years. I almost can't stop myself when he's in my party.

    Basically, back when I played evil I'd let Jan loose. That said, I would usually apply some of the rules gorgonzola uses to keep things from getting too cheesy. Depending on my mood, I may or may not recharge the initial Chateau Irenicus wands - but only once. I might sell, steal and resell the two rogue stones from the thieve's guild - but only once, etc.. As for pick-pocketing: every poor bastard in Athkatla was fair game.

    In a good run, I might allow very limited stealing - but only from Cowled Wizards and the thieves guild, and only for the 'greater good,' with the immediate goal of saving Imoen in mind. And if I remember, maybe a donation to a temple at some point, though admittedly I forget to do this more often than not. No looting every chest and barrel in the game, and no pick-pocketing civilians. As I type this, I can imagine Jan looking at me with sad eyes...

    lolienRik_Kirtaniya
  • JLEJLE Member Posts: 46
    I never sell the same item to a shopkeeper that I've stolen it from, but all else is fair game. I keep careful track of which fences I've stolen from... there's Gorch (until you kill him in Mae'Var's quest), the guy in the Thieves Guild itself, the Black Market Thief on top of the Copper Coronet, Jayes in Waukeens Promenade, Roger the Fence in the sewers, and finally Kich the black marketeer in Trademeet, whom you can't steal from at all, so he ends up as the final destination for any item that I've stolen from everybody else if I don't want to keep it...

    Oh, and I have NO problem stealing from the Underdark Duergar, or indeed the Drow of Ust'Natha (I'm probably going to kill the Drow later anyway.) Robbing the Duergar while disguised as a Drow and then intimidating them into giving the same good deal to the party of humans they saw earlier because "they are guests" is all part of playing a Drow properly :-)

    I could technically pickpocket from Bernard in the Copper Coronet, who is a lot harder to steal from than most merchants in the game (I believe he's actually harder to steal from under Lehtinan than under Hendak, or is it just that I get more skilled?).

    MartinWgorgonzolaRik_Kirtaniya
  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    edited May 18
    Steal everything, and use the steal-sell exploit, but only to "recharge" wands
    I steal all what I need and I recharge wands with sell-steal, but I buy something for same amount of gold for value of remaining charges.
    I think it is okay that for all your help to Shadow Thieves, they'll recharge wands for minimal fee you know :) but I won't get money by reselling already stolen items, because it is just not immersive.

    Overall, I don't think it is gamebreaking, because you'll have hundreds thousands of gold in the end of SoA even after you bought everything you need. It is just some fun part of the game... like learning spells with genius pots... you can use pots or you can simply reload, it's up to your immersion meter.

    I was re-loading for years, but now I'm using genius pots. But they are mostly stolen, he-he :D

    gorgonzolaRik_Kirtaniya
  • BlackbɨrdBlackbɨrd Member Posts: 145
    I mean, you could just turn it into a challenge. Some people have no-reload challenges, solo challenges etc your challenge could be to not steal? Resisting the urge (of murder stealing).

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,530
    Don't steal anything and also don't "recharge" wands
    Stealing is wrong. Shame on all you criminals. ;)

    ThacoBellRik_KirtaniyaZaxares
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,594
    Steal everything and also use the steal-sell exploit to get infinite money
    "Morale dilemma"? What's that? Can you eat it? :trollface:

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 966
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    Confession time. In any RPG, one of the first things I usually do is open up the console and give myself enough gold to buy the kingdom. XD Whenever I come to a new town, I make a beeline for the merchants and hoover up all the best magic items for my party, yet due to my packrat tendencies, by the time I've finished whatever side-quests are available in the area, I typically make back whatever gold I've spent buying up all that expensive gear.

    As such, the only times I'll really use thief skills like Pick Pocket is when I feel like doing it for RP reasons, or when there's a particular magic item on an NPC that isn't available for sale.

    gorgonzolaRik_Kirtaniya
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,576
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    Stealing is wrong. Shame on all you criminals. ;)

    are you saying that you side with the sheriff of nottingham and not with robin hood? :o;):D
    even RP a good oriented party there are situations where to steal can be at least "less wrong".
    if you sell a wand with only one charge and then steal it fully charged as the merchants seem to have the magical ability to recharge wands without any effort you steal from them only the very few money they pay for the almost depleted wand.
    and as every merchant and his brother seems to have unlimited amount of money in the game, they are all billionaires, you can donate to a church the same amount of money that you got selling the wand, that is not enough to have a personal advantage, to have your rep rise, in a perfect robin hood style, you steal from the rich and give to the poor (hoping that the priest uses that money to actually do it instead of commissioning not useful sculptures to overrated artists).

    and if you steal from the drow merchants in the drow city, that possibly as good oriented charname you will kill anyway as they become hostile if you don't run very fast, you steal useful weapons to the evil drows to use them for your good purposes and you avoid to finance the drow economy for their evil war.

    i really feel that only saying "stealing is wrong", at least in the game, about the RL i share your opinion, is too draconian. is the context in which you decide to steal or don't do it that makes all the difference, even in a RP oriented run.

    MartinWRik_Kirtaniya
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,450
    edited May 19
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    A controversial opinion, probably:

    Now when I'm replaying BG2, I've come to the conclusion recharging wands might be intended. Reason: you get 1-charge wands in the initial dungeon of BG2, and the player most likely saw the same wands, but with charges in BG1. When the player sells the wands to a storekeeper, they most likely will notice the number of charges going up in the menu and will most likely want to buy them back (much more costly, but with charges).

    smyth25Rik_Kirtaniya
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,576
    edited May 19
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    in bg2 wands that use 10 as level of the caster and have only one charge are a joke, a rare item that you can use only 1 time should have an outstanding effect, not only match a single memorization of a spell that your mage is able to cast better quite early in the game.
    this is the reason why selling them to having them charged seems to me very legittimate, even if intended or not is much tricky to find out as you need to have access to the original developer that coded them so.

    and in my experience, even if i make a quite intensive use of them in the first part of soa, you really need to charge them only once, as they have 50 or 100 charges. the only 2 exceptions i see are if you run a bard with armor that uses his spells to protect himself before equipping the armor and beginning the battle but then only uses the wands to cast while in combat and the wand that resurrects, but also completely heals instantly and at range, that has only 10 charges, that one is very easy to deplete if used as way to heal in combat.
    usually the other ones become obsolete for me before consuming all the charges as my mages start to have both more spell slots and better spells.

    anyway to sell an buy wands to have them charged is one thing, to sell and steal them to have them charged for free or maybe doing it many times with a fence to have unlimited money is a completely different thing as with a wand in your hands and buying the thieving potions from gorch you can go to shop every expensive item, all the enchanted ammo and scrolls in town right at the beginning of chap 2 if you wish to play that way.

    JuliusBorisovRik_KirtaniyaMartinW
  • smyth25smyth25 Member Posts: 199
    A controversial opinion, probably:

    Now when I'm replaying BG2, I've come to the conclusion recharging wands might be intended.

    If I remember correctly, back in the days of loading screens, one of the tips that could be shown said that players could sell wands to merchants to refresh their charges, so it must of been an intended feature and not just an engine quirk.

    In regards to stealing, I often do fall prey to some larcenous tendencies x), but I do try and curb them as much as possible. I usually only steal if I'm actually going to use the item and not just sell it for money. If I am going to sell something I try to limit it to one sell. I'm usually okay with sell-stealing wands just because I only use a small number of the different kinds of wands anyway (fire, monster summoning, paralysis, cloudkill, and resurrection).

    Okay looking back at that list maybe it's a lot.... But to be fair with scs, gaelen's shadow thief cost and the magic license cost is very high!

    gorgonzolaRik_KirtaniyaJuliusBorisovMartinW
  • iosfrustrationiosfrustration Member Posts: 114
    The one item I absolutely cannot resist stealing on every play through is the bottle of efreeti summoning. Even if I have to recruit some second rate thief from a dark corner of the copper coronet, pour a fortune of potions down their throat, that bottle will be mine!

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,600
    Steal everything and also use the steal-sell exploit to get infinite money
    Thanks for all your views, folks. I appreciate all the feedback! I can tell you that I find solace in knowing that I'm not the only one with an ambition to "acquire" all the good magic stuff (I don't care about gold, I just get it to buy stuff off of stores where there is no steal option).

    However, I will probably do a vanilla run with no shoplifting this time (pickpocketing will still continue, because why not?). I might just recharge the wands, but that will be it (probably will even buy them, but I cannot be sure about that).

    The only thing that concerns me is this: is there enough money in the game to be earned legitimately, so that I'll be able to buy ALL the unique magic stuff (that is, all the unique equipment) with just that much money?

    JuliusBorisovThacoBell
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 762
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    There is more than enough money in the game to buy everything you could ever want. What the stealing exploit does, is give you access to everything right out of the gate. If you don't steal you have to save money and buy items piecemeal throughout (usually) chapter 2 & 3. This is fun because you have to make strategic decisions about what will help you the most, based on unique party builds.

    But with the Jan Jansen trick, you can escape Chateau Irenicus, beeline for the government district, get Jan, head to the docks, do the lock-training room on level two to get 3 potions of master thievery (making a total of four if you saved the one from Chateau Irenicus), drink those, and hit the shop-keep downstairs. You can then clean him out (including 8 more potions of thievery) and sell-steal-sell-steal the two rogue stones at 3000gp ad infinitum until you have as much gold as you want. From there, you can head straight to Ribald's, the bonus merchants, etc. and buy all the best gear in the game. It can be fun in it's own way, but it does significantly reduce the challenge.

    Rik_KirtaniyagorgonzolaThacoBellJuliusBorisov
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,576
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    But there is a trick for infinite money: there is a trap during the Unseeing Eye quest which spams Skeleton Warriors. They drop treasure. As long as you haven't disarmed that trap, you can get new and new, eg. high-level scrolls which you can sell (the skeletons there don't give XP).
    yep, they also drop +1 2Hswords if i recall correctly, that sold in bunches of 16 to merchants that don't have them in their inventory give you some more money, all you have to do is to give the right (wrong) answer to pass the bridge.

    The only thing that concerns me is this: is there enough money in the game to be earned legitimately, so that I'll be able to buy ALL the unique magic stuff (that is, all the unique equipment) with just that much money?
    possibly yes, as long as you sell all the enchanted but not unique, named, items and you don't buy too much scrolls and enchanted ammo.

    but this is more a collector concern, as most of the named items becomes any way obsolete as you get more powerful versions of the same item type, the real difference is to have the key powerful items all at once very soon or to have to wait and make choices.

    to have early the 19 str belt, the RoV, the sling of everard, the defender, the fortress shield, the anti beholder one, all the scrolls you need and 2 good ac bracers for your mages for your mages (more versatility and also more xp), enchanted ammo and the rest or to chose which of them buy after each quest, hoping to have enough money to do it, is what really make the difference.
    so you can play without stealing from shops and paying the recharge of the wands for the challenge, then if some items are missing in your collection at the end of soa you can sell and steal from a fence to get the money to buy them and stuff them in some WK container, as you can get back to the other areas from the city of the elves if you want, at least if you do it before activating the statues and entering the tree area that is the no return point.

    JuliusBorisovRik_Kirtaniya
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,558
    Don't steal anything and also don't "recharge" wands
    I never steal, and I always end up with FAR more gold than I ever need to equip everyone. I'm pretty sure there's enough to buy all the unique items.

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,987
    Steal everything and also use the steal-sell exploit to get infinite money
    I don't resist. It's just a game, not some indicator of my inner self. At least I hope not.. ;)

    Rik_Kirtaniyakaja8
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,576
    Other (all good polls have an "other" option!)
    on a side note if you use mods like item upgrade, where to upgrade stuff cost much more then what you have to pay for the vanilla upgrades, or BoM item pack, where you have a new merchant that sells some very high priced stuff, you are not flooded with money any more.
    there the problem is not if to steal to have earlier things that you can surely buy later, is to have to make deliberate choices about what to upgrade/buy and what you simply can not afford to buy or use "creative" ways to get more money.

    an example, the merchant of item pack sells special staves, restricted to wild mage and specialist ones, a staff for every school. each staff makes immune vs the opposite school and gives some interesting cast/day, some of them very powerful like spell trap and one gives even immunity to TS.
    for a bard or a thief with UAI to have all those staves is really useful, as equipping the right one equals to have a SI active and many free spells, some of them of a level a bard can not naturally cast. and if a FMT uses the staff that gives him immunity to TS he can use 3 GWW with it every time your mage cast it , while maybe the mage spams spells using improved alacrity and RoV.
    to have an idea of the cost of those staves the most expensive cost 100K GP and the others in the range of 20-50k if i remember correctly as is a long time i don't use that mod any more.

    to buy all the staves (but the wild mage one, that is useful only for actual WM as it gives a permanent chaos shiled, now made partially obsolete by a EE item, and some dwehomers, too risky as a regular mage never learns the improved chaos shield) costs probably as much as to buy or upgrade all the soa named items and to buy high level scrolls for your mages and recharge wands trough all soa.

    i find the concept of very powerful and costly items combined with self restrain, avoiding to use sell/steal strategies or self restrain in it, like never selling to a fence something you have already stolen from him, very interesting as compels you to make choices about what you will buy and when you will, prioritizing the most useful items for your party.
    those special or upgraded items are surely not needed to beat the vanilla game, but in a hard modded setting can be very helpful for those that like the concept of more power for you and more difficult enemies.

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • ArviaArvia Member Posts: 1,092
    Don't steal anything, but "recharge" wands by selling and then BUYING them
    I don't steal, period.

    In BG2, wands aren't worth it any longer, but I sometimes recharge wands in BG1, especially when playing no or minimal reload. They can make quite a difference.

    I don't see anything wrong with it, because it costs a lot of money. I don't consider it cheating. It doesn't make sense that they get consumed in the first place. Any reasonable mage should build them to be rechargeable. It's logical that you can take them back and get a refill, at least if you take them to a really good mage and not any innkeeper.

    gorgonzola
  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 398
    Steal everything and also use the steal-sell exploit to get infinite money
    I thought everyone played this way?...

    Jan, Hexxat and Haer’Dalis united!!!! Pickpockets rule :)

    gorgonzola
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