Dwarven Shadowdancer?
Aerakar
Member Posts: 1,024
Has anyone had fun playing a dwarven shadowdancer? I have never played this class, but in some testing it seems fun and quite different. I'm quite well-versed in playing all the other thiefly variants. I tend to like dwarven thieves because of the savings throws, 19 strength in BG, and the strong skill bonuses to offset the racial dexterity cap. This being a melee thief, it seems the 17 max dex should not be such an issue, especially since trapping is not possible.
Also, what are the general recommended weapon proficiencies? I was thinking longsword (Varscona), shortbow, SWS, dagger (Venom) in BG, then building out TWF and eventually scimitar in late BG2 (I use the RR mod so my thieves may get 3 pips in TWF). Shortbow and dagger would be the ranged options as needed.
I could add quarterstaff also for a blunt, but not sure if needed given the different tactical approach of this class. It seems to me this class is not about big bodacious backstabs, but more about multiple on-hit effects/elemental damage from the constant HiS lower damage backstabs
Any feedback/advice/wisdom appreciated!
Also, what are the general recommended weapon proficiencies? I was thinking longsword (Varscona), shortbow, SWS, dagger (Venom) in BG, then building out TWF and eventually scimitar in late BG2 (I use the RR mod so my thieves may get 3 pips in TWF). Shortbow and dagger would be the ranged options as needed.
I could add quarterstaff also for a blunt, but not sure if needed given the different tactical approach of this class. It seems to me this class is not about big bodacious backstabs, but more about multiple on-hit effects/elemental damage from the constant HiS lower damage backstabs
Any feedback/advice/wisdom appreciated!
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Comments
I strongly recommend playing with another thief in the party, so that your protagonist can afford to crank up stealth immediately. Going even beyond 100/100 stealth is a good idea here - you want to be able to not just hide in plain sight, but hide in broad daylight consistently.
One trick to using a shadowdancer: it's all about patience. Despite the stealth timer, there's a way to stab and then hide immediately; if you take an action such as selecting a weapon or switching to trap detection mode that ends hiding mode without immediately breaking stealth, you start that timer. Wait for it to expire and make the hide button active, then strike.
I can't say much more than this, since I've never seriously run a shadowdancer myself.
But I agree that shadowdancer is fun and different despite being much weaker than the alternative!
No, you can't duplicate the power of HiPS with any other class. Invisibility magic is not a perfect substitute for nonmagical stealth; while a mage/thief can get off a few backstabs each day with it, they can't do stunts like clearing entire areas with backstabs. And while shadowdancers don't get HLA traps, they do get their own unique HLAs.
I've read comments from others on the forum and it seems like Shadowdancer is not everyone's cup of tea due to the needed micromanagement. There seems to be a power curve fall off in ToB also because of no traps (but other fun HLAs instead). From the playthroughs I have read it seems the class is a good escape artist when in trouble (obviously with HiPs and Shadowstep!).
I have been using the stealth timer trick and it really helps. In fact I felt a bit overpowered using HiPS with this approach.
On backstabbing weapons, any reasons to focus on certain weapons other than what other thief variants use?
I can't recommend enough this mod - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/76631/mod-siege-of-dragonspear-2-baldurs-gate2-ee-item-upgrade-v1-1-0-released/p1 . You will get a nifty club (thieves-specific) imported from SoD into BG2 which you'll be able to upgrade further. It will provide the much-needed change of the usual route with backstabbing weapons.
I'd invest all points in stealth and not waste a single point in any other thief skill, since reliable stealth is alfa and omega for SDs (I do the same for Assassins). I'd probably use another mage, unless solo but I've never tried SD solo, for everything else.
Your Thac0 will suck and pure rogues miss even with attacks from stealth, so I'd go with the best choice of THAC0 enchantments depending on NPCs, but probably staffs because in BG1 to 2 there's always an easy high-enchanted quarterstaff available and you could use a staffmace and buckler when/if needed. For example in BG1 to reach 20 CON for some mid-map regeneration. Leftover points would be daggers for the APR "cheese" in BG2 with fire tooth since the standard APR weapons usually can find their way into NPC hands, like belm for jaheira and kundane for Haer'dalis.
APR weapons tend to have lower enchantments than other weapons, but as you say the scimitar category have excellent choices. But it's better to hit rare than to miss often, so the few times I've played pure rogues I tend to not bother with APR so much. Admittedly though, I've never installed the RR mod which might change this.
And I totally agree on the choice of the master race dwarf.
In the end I did go with crossbow - he is a dwarf after all! - and added quarterstaff/THS and short sword. Short sword is not a bad choice with RR mod as it adds/enhances the weapon type in both games. I will add 3 pips in TWF in BG2 (RR mod) and later add scimitar so he can dual-wield decently and have increased combat utility later in the game. All points will go in stealth and later detect illusion until those are maxed.
The detect illusion stealth timer trick is really key to making shadowdancer effective, in my opinion. He suffered tremendously in close quarters combat until I figured that out. There is a lot more micromanagement with the backstabbing-centric approach, but it is something new!
I will say that the 'thief' feel is different than all other thieves. I have never played a thief without traps before.