After reading about my concerns, what do you think I should do with my party?

Jumbotron

Hello,

I played both BGI and BGII (but not ToB) many years ago.

Now I am playing the enhanced editions and eventually want to play ToB for the very first time with the same character I started playing BG:EE. I have many tweaks installed. In my game, I can dual class non human characters and multiclass human ones.

Currently I am still doing side quests during chapter 2 of BGII:EE. My party is good aligned and is composed by these characters.

Gorion's Ward (NG elf archer, LVL12. Imported from BGI:EE. STR19, DEX20, CON18, INT11, WIS21, CHA17)
Jaheira (fighter/druid)
Minsc (ranger)
Keldorn (inquisitor)
Nalia (mage)
Jan (thief/illusionist)

I have decided that I will replace Nalia with Imoen, mainly for roleplaying purposes. I like the idea of having a party with the four initial characters ending the game. Also, I really like having Jan aboard. He is the only developing thief in my party. And besides, he makes a decent enough second mage, I think. This leaves me with only one vacant in my party. I need to decide how to proceed from this point.

I would want a cleric in my party. But I also would want Keldorn, because otherwise I would miss Carsomyr and the inquisitor anti-magic abilities.

Initially I had planned to dual class my charname to cleric once he hits LVL13 archer, so that he will have 5 ranged attacks per round once he gets enough XP to regain his archer abilities after switching to cleric. This way I would have the cleric I want in my party and would keep Keldorn in it. On the bad side, it also would mean that I would miss gaining new bonus to hit and damage every three levels as an archer.

Another option is forget about dualing to cleric and hence miss one in my party. Or ditching Keldorn and replace him with Sir Anomen, but that would mean say goodbye to Carsomyr and the inquisitor fantastic anti-magic capacity.

Thanks for reading me.

Balrog99

I'd take Sir Anomen myself if I had the restrictions you're applying. Unless you have the tweak that allows ranger/clerics to use bows, I'd avoid dual-classing an Archer. If you really want to use Carsomyr in the endgame and don't feel you need a cleric after using Anomen through SoA, you can add 'SpoilerMan' at the beginning of ToB, dual him to thief and get Use Any Item as your 1st high class ability. It won't take long, especially if you wait to do Watcher's Keep.

SixOfSpades

Do not Dual to Cleric because it's not even an option for you (unless you cheat); only Humans can Dual-Class. Do not lose Keldorn; get rid of Minsc instead. As you are an Archer, he has very little that you don't. Anomen seems the correct replacement, although to be fair, having him & Keldorn in the same party can be awkward, as they both "need" the Gauntlets of Dexterity for really good AC, and the party seems low on pure Tanks.

jsaving

Warrior/clerics are better than warriors almost across-the-board in BG2 so you definitely want to replace one of your warriors with Anomen. You aren't allowed to replace your MC, and Keldorn at least has the advantages you outline, leaving Minsc as the one party who really doesn't have anything to offer beyond a high strength (which isn't relevant given the plethora of ways to raise strength in BG2). Either replace him with Anomen or edit him to be a ranger/cleric.

whalewere

Just so's it's been said, conclusively, your party is fine as it is and they would have a jolly old time taking on that dastardly Irenicus and so forth.

That said, I guess IF your dual class tweaks allow your Archer Cleric to use bows, and IF you are prepared for the pretty lengthy downtime...eh, it could be fun.

ilduderino

Ditch Keldorn and take Aerie. Minsc needs a witch and Keldorn’s quest gives a natural way for him to happily leave the party. Aerie, Jaheira and Jan are late game powerhouses. In pure power terms Minsc is your weakest link though, shame there are so many items to paper over low strength but not dexterity

Though Anomen will also do well

You don’t need a cleric to win, Jaheira and items can cover some of the gaps, but they are convenient. It’s a shame that both good cleric npcs are somewhat annoying

Oswald81

My favorite party is charname, Ano, Korgan, Nalia (swapped for Yoshi then Imoen), Jaheira and Jan.

Maurvir

I would dump Minsc. He is going to be the weak link in that party in ToB. Mazzy would be a good replacement, as she is a pure fighter and gets shorty saves.

Jan is an acceptable thief, but being an illusionist, he misses out on a few spells. However, he can take you through to the end - if you really like turnips. Nalia and Imoen are pretty close, and since you already have a good thief, it's a toss-up. I haven't taken Nalia through, as I always go with Imoen, but I have read that she becomes a bit of a pill in ToB.

As for a cleric, Jaheira can do MOST of what you would need a cleric for. Keldorn, as an inquisitor, can't, but his innate abilities make him incredibly useful. His built-in dispel magic is no small thing, and instant true sight is a game changer in many places. Also, if you happen to run across Carsomyr, the only stock good-aligned NPC who can wield it IS Keldorn. (Anomen doesn't qualify as a F/C)

The only things you are missing out on without a cleric (or non-inquisitor paladin) is turn undead and holy smite. Those are pretty big things to be missing out on, but they aren't fatal. Everything else has either a wizard or druid equivalent.

Lastly, archers don't do well in BG2 like they do in BG1. Of course, most people feel like archers are completely OP in BG1 and just "normal" in BG2, so there is that. Losing arrows of detonation also puts a crimp on archery. However, if you dual at the start of BG2, you will definitely be depending on your party to carry you for a while. You may have the HP and other characteristics of a mid-game character, but it's a tough road getting back up to speed.

That said, dualing to cleric might be a real option to fill in that missing gap. Experience comes fast in Amn, so you will be able to cast Holy Smite pretty quickly. Unfortunately, if you wait until BG2, you likely won't have enough turn undead ability to be truly useful until long past the point where it matters.

Oswald81

jsaving wrote: »

Warrior/clerics are better than warriors almost across-the-board in BG2 so you definitely want to replace one of them with Anomen. You aren't allowed to replace your MC, and Keldorn at least has the advantages you outline, leaving Minsc as the one party who really doesn't have anything to offer beyond a high strength (which isn't relevant given the plethora of ways to raise strength in BG2). Either replace him with Anomen or edit him to be a ranger/cleric.

Minsc can be used as a tank with Armour of Faith, Defender of Easthaven and Hardiness, though I think Valygar does it better and he is not shouting all the time. But yeah both are pretty limited and longbows lose their luster in BGII. Shortbows are serviceable with Gesen and Tasherron and xbows even more so. Must admit I mainly miss Protection from Evil from clerics, but that is useless comes TOB, I'm also a big fan of Remove Fear less half my party is running everywhere. Maybe I'm just really incompetent that I regard this as an issue.

Jumbotron

Thank you for your replies and votes.

Yes, I have the tweak that looses dual and multiclass clerics and druids equipment restrictions installed, so if I opt to go dual class my charname should still be able to use bows. And not only that, theoretically at least he would gain access to heavy armor because of his new class (losing his stealth ability while wearing any piece of heavy armor of course).

However, I am now almost certain that I won't go that route. Jaheira, as a multiclass druid, is already taking advantage of that tweak. Having a second member of my party with that advantage is too much, I think. In fact, I should not have installed these tweaks in the first place.

How do you deal with the vampires without a cleric? Level draining is something druids cannot restore. Lesser restoration scrolls? Can these be bulk bought in the temples perhaps?

Balrog99

Jumbotron wrote: »

Thank you for your replies and votes.

Yes, I have the tweak that looses dual and multiclass clerics and druids equipment restrictions installed, so if I opt to go dual class my charname should still be able to use bows. And not only that, theoretically at least he would gain access to heavy armor because of his new class (losing his stealth ability while wearing any piece of heavy armor of course).

However, I am now almost certain that I won't go that route. Jaheira, as a multiclass druid, is already taking advantage of that tweak. Having a second member of my party with that advantage is too much, I think. In fact, I should not have installed these tweaks in the first place.

How do you deal with the vampires without a cleric? Level draining is something druids cannot restore. Lesser restoration scrolls? Can these be bulk bought in the temples perhaps?

Every temple sells at least 3 Restoration scrolls. Since you're installing tweaks, you can even use the one that removes the arbitrary fatigue effect if you want to. Saves on rests for no valid reason. You can cast Wish or Resurrection/Raise Dead without any aging or fatigue but not Restoration? Annoying and dumb IMHO...

JuliusBorisov

I would install the Yeslick mod and take him instead. This would let you stay as an archer and get an amazing fighter/cleric.

Jumbotron

I already have almost 30 restoration scrolls. No cleric then.

Thank you all.

ithildurnew

Minsc, as some others have already said, is the clear weak link in terms of sheer efficiency/power/mechanical benefit long term. Obviously you might want to keep him for story/character/personality reasons, but if you're primarily concerned about power, drop Minsc and get Anomen; a fully buffed anomen wielding Flail of Ages is a much superior melee hitter than Minsc, and eventually you're going to want more divine spell slots than Jaheira alone can provide (Chaotic Commands for one). Or Take Aerie ONLY if you have the experience to care for, feed, and utilize a cler/mage properly.

A lot depends on your playstyle, mods, and experience. If you're playing vs vanilla mobs and AI, you'll eventually steamroll most things without too much trouble regardless of who is in your group.

Maurvir

Aerie really isn't that much trouble, unless your PC is dating her. Keep her out of the combat zones and let her do her thing. If you consider her a magic user who can also cast cleric spells, it's pretty straightforward.

Yes, I know, she CAN buff up and be a front-line fighter, but I have always found this to be far too fraught with peril to be worth the effort.