IDW2 questions: bard stats and tanks

kale

Hello there,

I'm a bit stumped and need some help figuring out how to spread my stat points for a bard in IWD2. He's supposed to be the group's main leader and support spell caster (but I have a rogue for thieving skills). I usually balance pg and rp considerations. Taking a drow would be the best race choice I suppose, because they already got + points in relevant stats. I'd prefer human though, as a drow leader makes little sense rp-wise (although I'd be open to a drow or any other race if I can find a reasonable rp background ....). I'd also prefer not to dump any stats beyond -8. So: dex, const, cha, and int seem to be very important, with a focus on dex and cha I reckon. Any suggestions for how to distribute the stat points?

And for my tank question: I'm considering playing with two clerics (Selune/Ilmater), a rogue/ranger (archery), the bard, a monk, and a wizard (or sorc). There'd be no melee dmg dealer or I'm I underestimating the monk? Thoughts?

semiticgoddess

Drow tend to be super under-leveled in pre-EE Icewind Dale 2 unless you're playing Heart of Fury mode. Generally I'd go with humans as the power-gaming choice. Notably, humans get free skill points per level, so using Intelligence as a dump stat works well with humans.

Bards will want high CHA, which governs how many bard spells they can cast and how strong their spells are (your CHA modifier is added to the save DC of your spells, such as Sleep). Dexterity is worth maxing out because a bard isn't very sturdy and is usually better off attacking from range. Otherwise it's a fairly even tradeoff between STR, CON, and WIS. If I had to power-game it, I would go:

10 STR
18 DEX
12 CON
8 INT
10 WIS
18 CHA

mostly because I don't like dropping INT too low.

The monk would not be dealing very much damage, but it would have the best potential AC because monks can add their WIS bonus to their AC when not wearing robes, armor, or shields. A plain human monk with

14 STR
18 DEX
10 CON
8 INT
18 WIS
8 CHA

and the Dodge feat at level 1 should be able to hit 19 AC right off the bat. Have a party member cast Mage Armor (+4 armor bonus), Barkskin (+3 to +5 generic), Protection from Evil or Ghost Armor (+2 or +5 deflection), and Cat's Grace (+1d4+1 DEX bonus), and that monk will have pretty solid AC. A deep gnome monk is even better, since it can get 20 DEX and WIS and also gets a +4 generic AC bonus from its race (though it'll be a lousy damage dealer due to its sluggish level growth).

Your two clerics will be your damage dealers. Single-classed clerics are basically the best tanks and damage dealers in vanilla IWD2 because of their awesome buffs.

m7600

Hi,

I'm currently playing IW2 with one of the pre-made parties, "Lady's Lament". The leader is a human bard, she has some decent stats for that class IMO. The two tanks are half-orcs who are also quite good at what they do.

For a character made from scratch, I would give the bard leader 18 in charisma. If you want a human, you could specialize even further and go for an aasimar (+2 wisdom, + 2 charisma) or a tiefling (+2 intelligence, + 2 dexterity). They don't get negative points (so you're looking at +4 free points either way), but the drawback is that they will level up slower. However, those extra points allow you to ramp up charisma up to 20 instead of 18 in the case of an aasimar, which will be handy for a bard leader. As for spell casting, remember that in IWD2, unlike the other infinity engine games, a bard's spellcasting ability is based on charisma. But you might want to have a decent Intelligence score because that will give you more points to spend in skills (Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate would be the main ones for a bard leader, IMO, though you might want to spend some points on Concentration as well).

Don't worry about spending too much points in dexterity for your bard, because you can compensate that with Cat's Grace, to an extent. The same goes for strength, you can use Bull's Strength to ramp up that ability score.

As for the rest of your party, you can certainly make it work without a melee damage dealer / tank. You can use summons to soak up the damage from the enemies, but it might be a bit tough in certain battles.

Lastly, regarding a drow party leader and your concern over rp... I'd say that the developers of IWD2 probably wanted players to have the option of playing a character with a background similar to Drizzt's. Afterall, Icewind Dale basically received a lot of attention thanks to the Drizzt novels.

EDIT: spelling mistakes.

m7600

Ah, never mind, @semiticgod gave way better feedback than me, I didn't see the reply before I posted mine. : P

kale

Thanks @m7600 and @semiticgod! This will give me some ideas to play around with. Just a quick question regarding INT and the bard: does it not in some way also influence available dialogue options in-game? And even if I give him 10 INT, that's not nearly enough points for spellcraft, knowledge, diplomacy, buff, and concentration. Knowledge (and alchemy) can be covered by my primary spell caster I guess and I've read somewhere that concentration is actually not that useful anyway, given that your spell casters shouldn't be hurt in the first place (which they tend to get nonetheless, at least under my tutelage ....). But spellcraft is a must-have for learning spells?

I guess I could move some DEX points into INT, as suggested...

semiticgoddess

@kale: Concentration is very important. Everyone gets hit sometimes, even arcane spellcasters with Mirror Image.

You only need one character with high Spellcraft to identify enemy spells as they're being cast. If you want to take the Spirit of Flame feat or the other elemental damage bonus feats, you'll need 10 Spellcraft and level 4 spells, but other than that, the only time you'll ever need high Spellcraft is if you're a mage who needs to scribe scrolls--sorcerers and bards don't learn spells from scrolls and therefore don't really need Spellcraft.

Knowledge (Arcana) isn't very necessary. It's convenient, but the Identify spell is sufficient. Same goes for Alchemy. There are very few uses for it in vanilla.

Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate checks tend to be pretty low in vanilla IWD2. In many cases, you can get by just with maxed-out CHA, even without any actual investment in the skill. Dialog skills are seldom used after Targos anyway.

m7600

@kale: about moving points from Dex to Int, it depends if you're going to roll a standard human, or one of the specialized options: aasimar or tiefling. For a pure human, @semiticgod is definitely right, you don't need a high intelligence, since humans get bonus feats and skill points regardless. For an aasimar or tiefling, I would give it 12 intelligence, so that you get the +1 bonus.

What I wouldn't do is spend points in Knowledge arcana, alchemy or spellcraft. Spellcraft is not a must-have for learning spells if you're rolling a bard. Bards get their spells in the same way as sorcerers do, they don't need to find scrolls. Spellcraft would be useful for a wizard.

I think @semiticgod is also right about maxing Dex. Here's how I would make a bard:

Race: Aasimar
Class: Bard
STR: 10
DEX: 18
CON: 10
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 20

I can't remember if vanilla IWD2 has the spell "Bear's Endurance". But if you're going to have a cleric of Ilmater, then you'll have access to "Ilmater's Endurance", which is a good substitute.

EDIT: Spelling.

m7600

Lol, @semiticgod keeps beating me to these replies : D

kale

Thanks, again @semiticgod. @m7600 's input is also appreciated of course;). Ok I still remembered from IWD that bards had to scribe scrolls (if I'm not completely mistaken), so thanks for clearing that up. I know that the talking skills aren't of that much use, but that's where my rp-concerns kick in again lol. I'll find a compromise ... at least knowledge I usually like to have, because I hate swapping identity spells in and out of the spellbook (which I found annoying in IWD1) ...