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Ankheg exploit

Hi there, I currently am on my first-ever BG:EE playthrough. Last night I accidentally discovered - assuming from what I found about this issue in Google search - an exploit with Ankheg worms, in a location directly north from Friendly Arm Inn, down in the Ankheg Nest. I went down there to clear the area, I ran low on HP and I had used up my healing spells (yes, I'm that kind of player who usually stores the potions for a better occassion :D), so I tried to rest... and here we go. Each time I tried resting, one Ankheg would spawn. It can be repeated endlessly.

I don't like cheating, not even in single-player games, so concerning this issue, I have two questions:

- Do you know if this has been reported? If it has, why hasn't it been fixed? That could easily be called game weakness abusing, right? Or perhaps farming is considered part of the game? This feels kind of game-breaking, not literally, of course, but you can pretty easily get infinite XP and gold by just 'rest-spawning' the Ankhegs and selling their shells to Taerom Fuiruim in the city of Beregost, so that just breaks the game's inteded economy and experience gains

- Is it true that Taerom Fuiruim was originally intended to only buy ONE Ankheg Shell from the CHARNAME, or to only accept one shell to make the armour, without the possibility to sell shells to him afterwards? I read that once he'd take all of your shells and just pay for one, now he pays for each shell every time he is talked to

Any help in that matter is much appreciated :)

lost1

Comments

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 965
    BG did its best to replicate the tabletop experience, including highly broken elements like 18/00 strength, the sleep spell, infinite rerolling of your stats during character generation, and per-kill XP from random encounters. The OP is right that availing yourself of any of these exploits makes you stronger than the devs intended which in turn makes the game easier than they intended. However, I would point out that per-kill XP at least involves doing something productive in-game, unlike hitting the reroll button a couple of hundred times until an optimally twinked character appears.

    speancerlost1
  • speancerspeancer Member Posts: 9
    AionZ wrote: »
    There are way bigger and more abusable exploits in the game than just this. And most of the time, if it's an exploit that can be avoided by simply not trying to do it, there'll be people who complain when it's removed.

    Personally, I don’t think this is an exploit worth removing because if you’d rather spend four hours spamming rest and killing ankhegs than actually playing through and enjoying the game, then more power to you.

    Thanks for replying :)

    jsaving wrote: »
    BG did its best to replicate the tabletop experience, including highly broken elements like 18/00 strength, the sleep spell, infinite rerolling of your stats during character generation, and per-kill XP from random encounters. The OP is right that availing yourself of any of these exploits makes you stronger than the devs intended which in turn makes the game easier than they intended. However, I would point out that per-kill XP at least involves doing something productive in-game, unlike hitting the reroll button a couple of hundred times until an optimally twinked character appears.

    Thanks for answering. Why do you think these elements you mentioned are broken? As for rerolling, this is possible in all AD&D games, is it not? I'm planning on playing all the Enhanced Editions, so Baldur's Gate II is next, then Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and Planescape: Torment (not necessarily in that order), this works the same in all these games? I don't really see how else could you make that work. Even if a roll limit was set, people would just cancel character creation and try again. Is it legal in D&D rules to roll stats as much as desired, or are there limits?

    I may be misremembering but I think when BG1 came out Taerom Fuiruim would buy more than one shell from you. But you had to take them to him one at a time. If you had more than one ankheg shell in your inventory he would pay you for one but take them all. I used to stand there with a pile of shells on the floor beside me, pick them up one at a time and sell them to him one by one.

    However, I think you are right, in the original game once you got him to make a set of armour he would stop buying shells. He would also only ever make one set of armour. Now I think he will buy as many shells as you can supply and make as many sets of armour as you want.

    Personally, I don't see any problem with this. If people want to go ankheg farming that is up to them. The critters have killed enough of my characters in their time that I take positive delight in culling them.

    Thanks for your answer. Yeah, that's what I read. I should've written that if not sold one by one, he'd take all of them shells and pay just for one. In current BG:EE version Taerom Fuiruim will only make one armour and he will buy as many shells as desired, I checked it in-game. Apparently once he'd start dropping them if he was sold too many and you could pick them up from the floor and resell them endlessly as well, at least from what Google told me. Not sure if that was fixed.


    Permidion_StarkThacoBell
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,378
    Thanks for answering. Why do you think these elements you mentioned are broken? As for rerolling, this is possible in all AD&D games, is it not? I'm planning on playing all the Enhanced Editions, so Baldur's Gate II is next, then Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights and Planescape: Torment (not necessarily in that order), this works the same in all these games? I don't really see how else could you make that work. Even if a roll limit was set, people would just cancel character creation and try again. Is it legal in D&D rules to roll stats as much as desired, or are there limits?

    in NWN you don't roll ability scores, there is a point buy system ( i believe they either use 28 or 30 ) and the higher you put points into an ability score the more it costs ( all scores start at 8 then +/- racial modifiers )

    in 3rd edition dnd, the point buy system was there and based on what sort of campaign you were playing was how many points you had ( 25 for easy, 28 for medium, 32 for hard i believe it was )

    they also had an elite array set you could use ( 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 )

    for when it came to rolling ability scores, it was basically whatever you got, you had to keep and you weren't allowed to reroll unless;

    you DM said you could ( house rule )
    or ( actual rules)
    your highest ability score was 13
    or
    all your ability modifiers put together equaled to 0

    usually for my 3rd edition campaigns for PnP we do a 32 point buy system, ( which is what NWN 2 uses ) and it seems to be the sweet spot of not to over powering but enough to be useful for any class, even MAD classes like paladin and monks

    speancerGrond0Aerakar
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 965
    Yeah, most modern CRPGs use a point-buy system so in-game rewards will flow from player skill rather than a willingness to repeatedly press the reroll button.

    Timbo0o0o0
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,568
    BG1 & 2 are based on the 2nd edition ruleset. The rules for rolling ability points are laid out here:

    https://advanced-dungeons-dragons-2nd-edition.fandom.com/wiki/Rolling_Ability_Scores

    The short answer is: No, it is not legal under 2e rules to to roll for stats as many times as you like. However, as mentioned earlier, in the computer game there is nothing to stop anyone from simply reloading character creation until they got decent scores, so allowing infinite stat rolls (for crpgs) makes a twisted kind of sense.

    Grond0speancer
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,159
    I personally would not consider the respawning Ankheg to be an exploit, any more than it's an exploit to repeatedly travel between maps looking for random encounters so you can gain XP from the fights (JRPGs are notorious for practically REQUIRING this if you don't want to be woefully underlevelled whenever you head to a new zone). Of course, there's nothing wrong with feeling that it's kinda gimmicky and avoiding resting in that cave if you don't wish to use it. (I personally never rest in that cave myself. I just go in, clean the place out as requested by the druid, then leave.)
    jsaving wrote: »
    Yeah, most modern CRPGs use a point-buy system so in-game rewards will flow from player skill rather than a willingness to repeatedly press the reroll button.

    While that's true, I do think that deprives the player(s) of feeling that rush of headiness when the dice go your way and you wind up with some amazing stat rolls. At my table, I allow a combination of both; I give a fairly generous point-buy array where players pick one stat (automatic 18), pick another stat (automatic 15) and then have 50 points to divide among the remaining 4 stats as they see fit. However, if a player wants to try his luck rolling for his stats, he's more welcome to try, with the caveat that he's stuck with whatever he gets, no rerolls or opting for point-buy afterwards. ;) Despite this, the dice roll variant has often come up with a surprising number of memorable characters, both good and bad.

    Grond0speancerBalrog99
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,599
    Ankheg farming is even easier if you can cast sleep or have the Wand of Sleep. For some reason ankhegs are particularly vulnerable to that spell. Ankhegs are worth 950xp but are still affected by sleep while ogre berserkers are only 650xp but are immune. Kind of odd...

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,901
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Ankheg farming is even easier if you can cast sleep or have the Wand of Sleep. For some reason ankhegs are particularly vulnerable to that spell. Ankhegs are worth 950xp but are still affected by sleep while ogre berserkers are only 650xp but are immune. Kind of odd...

    Ogre Berserkers are not immune. Welp, have fun with that info!

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,901
    I guess that's why it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't on them. I just assumed they had some find of resistence. OF COURSE the real answer is a lot more hacky :D

    Balrog99Aerakar
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,636
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I guess that's why it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't on them. I just assumed they had some find of resistence. OF COURSE the real answer is a lot more hacky :D

    Well if you play with SCS then ogre berserkers really can go berserk (and sleep is useless against that) - but if you're careful you can still catch them without their buff active.

    ThacoBellBalrog99Aerakar
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,599
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Ankheg farming is even easier if you can cast sleep or have the Wand of Sleep. For some reason ankhegs are particularly vulnerable to that spell. Ankhegs are worth 950xp but are still affected by sleep while ogre berserkers are only 650xp but are immune. Kind of odd...

    Ogre Berserkers are not immune. Welp, have fun with that info!

    I never had it work on them so just figured they were immune and stopped trying. Who knew there were so many types of ogre-berserkers???

    ThacoBell
  • CloutierCloutier Member Posts: 225
    In P&P sleeping creatures are awakened upon hit, and there's a cap to the amount of enemy HDs that can be affected from the spell. Makes the Sleep spell much more balanced.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,901
    @Cloutier Its capped in BG.

    If op is uneasy about farming Ankhegs, better not tell them about the Flesh Golems...

    Aerakar
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,378
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Cloutier Its capped in BG.

    If op is uneasy about farming Ankhegs, better not tell them about the Flesh Golems...

    i thought the EEs changed that cave and now make it so only carrion crawlers summon instead of flesh golems?

    although you can still get waken up by more than 1 sirine in the same map just outside the cave...

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,901
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Cloutier Its capped in BG.

    If op is uneasy about farming Ankhegs, better not tell them about the Flesh Golems...

    i thought the EEs changed that cave and now make it so only carrion crawlers summon instead of flesh golems?

    although you can still get waken up by more than 1 sirine in the same map just outside the cave...

    Yeah the EEs fixed that.

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,683
    You can also rest outside in the Sirine area and get woken up by Sirines which are worth 2000 experience each.

    lost1
  • ithildurnewithildurnew Member Posts: 232
    edited November 5
    Getting woken up by Sirines with SCS and ATweaks improvements is no picnic. If you want to exploit that, then by all means please do. >:)

  • FateAscendsFateAscends Member Posts: 62
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Cloutier Its capped in BG.

    If op is uneasy about farming Ankhegs, better not tell them about the Flesh Golems...

    i thought the EEs changed that cave and now make it so only carrion crawlers summon instead of flesh golems?

    although you can still get waken up by more than 1 sirine in the same map just outside the cave...

    Yeah the EEs fixed that.

    I was about to post this exact change, but you beat me to it I see. So perhaps OP is on to something? I mean if the flesh golem cave was meddled with, why not the ankheg one? Spawn crappy beetles in there or something.

    Also on the note of sirens, anyone remember when Sil was a juicy 9k exp? Why the nerf to 2k?! :(

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,901
    @FateAscends With Ankhegs, it would be possible to deplete the spawns before taking the quest for hunting them. Its small, but nobody like missing out on content because of something they couldn't know in advance. Also, the ankhegs take like 4 hours when farming them solo. If you want to spend that much time grinding, so for it. But I don't think most player will.

    sarevok57
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,378
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Cloutier Its capped in BG.

    If op is uneasy about farming Ankhegs, better not tell them about the Flesh Golems...

    i thought the EEs changed that cave and now make it so only carrion crawlers summon instead of flesh golems?

    although you can still get waken up by more than 1 sirine in the same map just outside the cave...

    Yeah the EEs fixed that.


    Also on the note of sirens, anyone remember when Sil was a juicy 9k exp? Why the nerf to 2k?! :(

    Sil was never worth 9000 XP, perhaps you had a mod back in the day that made her worth more?

    the only other sirines that are worth more are the one in durlag's tower and the sirine queen on werewolf island and their XP values aren't changed

    Grond0ThacoBell
  • FateAscendsFateAscends Member Posts: 62
    edited November 6
    Maybe a mod I'm remembering.

    sarevok57
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