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100% absolute non-detection?

BracchusBracchus Member Posts: 24
I keep reading mixed answers to this. There's posts around the internet that claim that a stealthed thief wearing Cloak of Whispers is 100% immune to mage or priest true seeing/sight. True or false? If true, what enemies in BG2EE can see through this? If memory serves me correctly that cloak with Stealth has failed already against certain Kuo-Toans with innate detection that bypasses this, and maybe a dragon or 2. I'm basically looking for backstabbing purposes using Hexxat against regular mages not immune to backstabs in SoA and ToB EE v2.5.16.6. Normally I use Keldorn as my anti-mage guy but I want to try something different for an evil party .

Ongoing edit: Add Wandering Horrors in watcher's Keep to list of creatures that see through stealth+cloak of whispers

Comments

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,148
    edited January 19
    Ugh... This is... A long and complicated and immensely confusing... thing. I will attempt to explain it as soon as I have the time, assuming someone doesn't beat me to the punch...

    I suspect that, even after I explain it, it will be a complicated and immensely confusing thing...

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,740
    Bracchus wrote: »
    I keep reading mixed answers to this. There's posts around the internet that claim that a stealthed thief wearing Cloak of Whispers is 100% immune to mage or priest true seeing/sight. True or false? If true, what enemies in BG2EE can see through this? If memory serves me correctly that cloak with Stealth has failed already against certain Kuo-Toans with innate detection that bypasses this, and maybe a dragon or 2. I'm basically looking for backstabbing purposes using Hexxat against regular mages not immune to backstabs in SoA and ToB EE v2.5.16.6. Normally I use Keldorn as my anti-mage guy but I want to try something different for an evil party .

    Ongoing edit: Add Wandering Horrors in watcher's Keep to list of creatures that see through stealth+cloak of whispers

    In these games, Non-Detection protects against effects that dispel illusions, but not against enemies that see through invisibility. The spell True Sight/True Seeing, for some reason, doesn't let the character see through illusions; it just dispels illusions, so Non-Detection protects against it. But Kuo-Toans can see through invisibility; they can get past Non-Detection.

    Pokota
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,550
    Nondetection helps against divination spells that remove invisibility. It doesn't do a thing against effects that see through invisibility without removing it.

    Enemies/potential enemies in BG2EE that see through invisibility:
    - Celestials
    - Dragons
    - Fiends
    - Kuo-toa
    - Liches and demiliches
    - Mists
    - Balthazar and his elite monks
    - Hive Mothers
    - Unseeing Eye
    - Dopplegangers, Irenicus, Sarevok, Eltan, Aran, and Ellesime from the first pocket plane challenge.
    - The alternate version of yourself from the pocket plane challenges
    - Slayer from the pocket plane challenges
    - The Ravager and its Bone Blades from the pocket plane challenges
    - Death Shade (summoned by the Deck of Many Things)
    - Degardan from Edwin's quest
    - Eye of the Dead (fight Iycanth or mess with his eggs to see)
    - Melissan
    - Fell Cats
    - Rilmani (Planar creatures)
    - Flaming Skulls (technically a Lich, but you might not think of them that way)
    - Elder Orbs in Hell
    - Enslaved Genie in Hell
    - Wraith Sarevok in Hell
    - Nyalee
    - Skeleton Cleric and Skeleton Mage in Nyalee's glade
    - Master Wraith
    - Fire Troll
    - Dermin, Ertof, and Reviane from Jaheira's quest
    - Nishruu (but not Hakeashar)
    - Summerheigh from Dorn's quest
    - Ghostly characters (Thief, Ghostly Monk, Rabi'ah, etc.) from Hexxat's quest
    - Culak and Umolex from Hexxat's quest
    - Overseer Akuda, Alorgoth, Overseer Azmadi from Rasaad's quest
    - Sendai (the real one only)
    - Mithykyl
    - Arkanis Gath (the one that kills you if you betray the Shadow Thieves in chapter 2/3)
    - Irenicus on the Tree of Life
    - Rune Assassin
    - Demon Wraith and Slave Wraith (technically fiends, but it's not obvious at a glance)
    - TorGal
    - Beholder (the one you fight for Phaere)
    - Greater Werewyvern
    - Yaga-Shura
    - Chinchilla

    Some non-hostile creatures that the game really wants to be able to see you have this ability too, like messengers or the guards that roust you if you try to sleep outside in a town. I've included the ones you can pick a fight with through dialogue in the list above.
    Some of the categories that broadly have detection lack it in some specific cases - the demons that Irenicus brings with him in Hell, Poison Mist, Crimson Death.

    Spoilered for length. There are a few broad groups, and a bunch of one-offs.

    Most enemies that see through invisibility can be backstabbed if you can distract them; I've landed stabs on kuo-toa before. There are also some enemies that are immune to backstabs; beholders, dragons, golems, and oozes are the main groups.

    BracchusJuliusBorisovKesslannMantis37
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,148
    Heh, and the above isn't even the complicated confusing part... that is easy to get by comparison...

  • BracchusBracchus Member Posts: 24
    edited January 19
    wow that's exactly the kind of list I'm looking for thanks! That's not too bad in the entire breadth of the game after all. I guess it just feels worse when it does happen than it really is. The good news is that I hardly see any mages on that list ;) The bad news is now I have to deal with the annoying ones who come pre-buffed whether they see you or not -_-

  • DonaldDonald Member Posts: 5
    This is simple. A Thief w/ Cloak of Non-Detection will remain unseen to all EXCEPT those with some sort of extra-planar sight. The spell Non-Detection does not work the same way.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,009
    The cloak of non-detection works much better if you give it the equipped effect 205 (protection from spell type) set to a type of 5 (divination attack). It is funny to go invisible then watch enemy mages cast True Sight two or three times in a row only to see it fail every time. Of course, that still won't protect you from beings who have the "invisibility detection" effect (opcode 193). At this time, the only way I know of to get around that would be to mod all those creatures so that they no longer have that effect...but that feels too much like cheating.

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