Right when I thought my evil playthrough would have to be all alone because there was only one female romance character... This is a pleasant surprise. Now Dorn and my evil-protagonist shall be quite happy (and evil) together!
I don't think a character's orientation should be a reason for its exclusion or inclusion. It's more important that a character's background/quests/romance/story is well-written than the individual details. And the orientation is just that; one of several details. It's part of the picture, but certainly not one of the most important ones. For Dorn, I find it much less interesting than him being a half-orc or a blackguard.
and the notion is imported from recent RPGs such as Dragon Age?
I do suspect they wrote Dorn as bi to fill that part of the "Romance Quota", but it's not at Dragon Age's level where they in the sequel just went ahead and made every character bi-sexual. I've seen some people claiming "oh, but they're not bi-sexual, they're player-sexual and only respond to the PC's advances" but I find that to be an apologist excuse on the behalf of lazy/cowardly writing staff.
Ah, almost forgetting what I probably should have put first. I don't mind if there's bi/homo-sexual characters in a game. It's content I have no interest in and won't ever play, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be in. Just like I find Fighters to be the most incredibly boring class in every RPG ever, but I know people enjoy that too somehow and that shouldn't be excluded either. I -do- mind when it's shoveled in just for the sake of it though, i.e. "lets add X romance option to appease X playerbase for more munnies", but Overhaul doesn't seem to be doing that, or when it's just badly written and executed which it apparently was in Dragon Effect 2 where they just made everyone everything.
In a perfect world, NPCs would run the gamut we find in real life, up and down kinsey. However, development constraints make that less than practical. KOTOR was an early game to attempt it, with Juhani as a lesbian only option, as well as two straight options.
I applaud DA2's choices in that respect, though I otherwise do not care for the game. It was a brave choice by the developers that they had to know wouldn't exactly be well-received. Many people complain about what this signifies about the writing, but games often compromise writing in favor of player choice; this is just another example of that.
It really depends on the game....I thought Dragon Age 1 and 2 pulled it off pretty nicely in recent years. Some games the GBLT one-size-fits-all doesn't work, and that is ok too (imo).
It's nice that they're being inclusive, and that the character isn't someone who is a walking stereotype... that being said, I'm also glad they didn't go the (incredibly lazy) route of making everyone charname-sexual, like what was done in DA2. At least I assume they didn't, that I can see.
Kids, Dorn is evil and he happens to be gay. Or if you like, Dorn is gay and he happens to be evil.
If you kids want to read something into that, like gay = evil or evil = gay, you're immature to the point where I'd like to personally smack you all silly.
I think we ought start representing other minorities in game though people. What about transsexuals? I'm sure there's atleast ONE person in BG who flaunts both kinds of private tinkers.
Okay I'm taking the wallet at this point, but seriously, power to all of you for there being a gay character. But please STOP going on about it. We get it. We're happy for you and we in no way are unsupporting you.
All these sexuality threads aren't necessary on a forum where there is clearly no hate, only annoyance in the worth you give things like sexuality in fictional game worlds.
I thought evil was the new cool, anyway. People are wanting more evil this, and more evil that. I'm a goody-two-shoes, the evilest I can get is chaotic neutral (which was the old cool) to justify my rampant throttling of barrels and cupboards for ill-gotten loots. And stealing the cloak off of Algernon's back. RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.
@Nukenin Hell yeah man. If being gay is evil, and evil is cool, being gay must be logically cool. I guess.
But the fact stands that he's just an evil half orc who likes men. That's nothing to do with social commentary. I think it's upsetting people read anything into it frankly.
I have yet to actually meet Dorn outside of that brusque initial encounter at the Friendly Arm. I was under the impression that he swung that sword both ways.
I plan on recruiting him and the monk into my halfling barbarian's party. I just seem to have this aversion to going south from Beregost.
Eyebrows will still be raised liberally if he offers to curl the curlies on my halfling's toes. He just better stay away from Viconia, my halfling's sweet little tanning booth mixup. Maybe Imoen and/or Rasaad can serve as his diversion.
We live in the 21st century for Bhaals sake, sexual orientation shouldn't be a matter of discussion in any way. Just look at DC comics, they made one of their main characters gay (the Green Lantern) and BioWare also has at least bi-sexual characters in there games included for years (I think Mass Effect was the first). Heck, one of my homecountries main ruleing polticians is gay and no body gives a fuck.
Took way to long if you ask me. Let's just hope that even the last stupid prick finally notices, that being homo- or bi-sexual has nothing to do with someone being a bad person.
Now go make Viconia bi-sexual for BG2:EE, Overhaul! You know you want to! (Gosh, I'm so gay for her )
PS: Just look at Metal Gear Solid for crying out loud! This game series is so homoerotic (especially the third and fourth game), it's not even funny! (Well actually it's quite hilarious...) I mean, the main character, one of the most manly video game heroes of all time lives together with his best friend and they raise a small girl together. Oh, and both are single (well, Otacon not out of own choice, but still). And don't let me mention this one little scene during the end fight of MGS4...
@Shandyr What they must understand is that, as it seems to me and many people here, that some of them here assume sexuality is all that matters. Forget personality, ethics, morals, integrity, none of that matters. For some reason the one thing that seems to matter is sexuality, which is disappointing.
I agree with everything you have said though so I have no objections man.
For the record, saying Dorn is evil because he's gay or gay because he's evil is like saying the black guy in X movie is evil because he's black. He isn't evil to support conservative people, he's evil because he is naturally.
If we can't have evil blacks, evil gays or evil women in fictional worlds then we are in serious trouble.
@Elender You speak the ironic truth man. That is how our world works. You can't let the black guy die because that's racist. You can't let the gay guy be represented in anyway except utterly perfect because that would be very homophobe.
@Ward Really only the OP has even hinted at conflation between homosexuality and Dorn's alignment, while subsequent posts actively refuted the claim. In fact, myself and at least one other poster have praised Overhaul for taking the step of making an evil, LGBTQ character.
While I haven't been around these forums long enough to know that sexuality discussions have been overdone, this discussion has been an entirely civil discourse on a potentially contentious topic.
I don't think that sexuality is the only thing that matters in character development, and I rather doubt anyone here actually does. Nonetheless, this is a noteworthy departure from the original game and merits some degree of discussion, I think.
There is obviously some context I am missing here (alluded to by yourself and @Shandyr ), but at least in a vacuum, this discussion strikes me as perfectly reasonable, and it is a topic worth speaking about.
I bet Overhaul would love to have the approval and budget to, er, overhaul a lot of the NPCs. Especially Mazzy. I'd love to sit at a campfire and give Mazzy a shoulder-pillow in which to seek solace. Er, embarrassed cough but I digress…
We as a collective humanity aren't there yet. But I think we're stumbling in good directions.
@Deucetipher I do hope it continues to be civil. I've heard other people mention the fact that Dorn is evil and gay in some other posts, so when I spoke about it before, don't think I was talking at all the people here who refuted what OP said.
When I say some people think all that matters is sexuality, I did just mean some people. Not everybody, not most I hope, but some people here don't make anything else matter. Atleast it comes across in that way though. Sexuality isn't as important as people make it seem.
I like it. It is however, just another stereotype. I wouldn't mind if they added another gay or bi character, who is perfectly normal in every way, who is not coming from a twisted family, not being full of hatred, in other words, a balanced personality. What I dislike about portrayal of gay and bi characters in video games is that they always are in some way twisted implying as if their orientation was caused by some trauma from childhood.
Personally I think it's Beamdog's way of continuing the original BG tradition: If your sexual leanings are outside the norm, then you achieve godlike power. Just look at Coran the hyper-womaniser, best NPC in the game. Along comes Dorn, who's too much Half-Orc for one gender to handle? Second best NPC in the game.
Comments
Arath (bisexual) - http://www.shsforums.net/forum/624-arath/
Sarah (lesbian) - http://gibberlings3.net/sarah/
Ah, almost forgetting what I probably should have put first. I don't mind if there's bi/homo-sexual characters in a game. It's content I have no interest in and won't ever play, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be in. Just like I find Fighters to be the most incredibly boring class in every RPG ever, but I know people enjoy that too somehow and that shouldn't be excluded either. I -do- mind when it's shoveled in just for the sake of it though, i.e. "lets add X romance option to appease X playerbase for more munnies", but Overhaul doesn't seem to be doing that, or when it's just badly written and executed which it apparently was in Dragon Effect 2 where they just made everyone everything.
I applaud DA2's choices in that respect, though I otherwise do not care for the game. It was a brave choice by the developers that they had to know wouldn't exactly be well-received. Many people complain about what this signifies about the writing, but games often compromise writing in favor of player choice; this is just another example of that.
Kids, Dorn is evil and he happens to be gay. Or if you like, Dorn is gay and he happens to be evil.
If you kids want to read something into that, like gay = evil or evil = gay, you're immature to the point where I'd like to personally smack you all silly.
Okay I'm taking the wallet at this point, but seriously, power to all of you for there being a gay character. But please STOP going on about it. We get it. We're happy for you and we in no way are unsupporting you.
All these sexuality threads aren't necessary on a forum where there is clearly no hate, only annoyance in the worth you give things like sexuality in fictional game worlds.
I thought evil was the new cool, anyway. People are wanting more evil this, and more evil that. I'm a goody-two-shoes, the evilest I can get is chaotic neutral (which was the old cool) to justify my rampant throttling of barrels and cupboards for ill-gotten loots. And stealing the cloak off of Algernon's back. RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.
ahem
But the fact stands that he's just an evil half orc who likes men. That's nothing to do with social commentary. I think it's upsetting people read anything into it frankly.
I plan on recruiting him and the monk into my halfling barbarian's party. I just seem to have this aversion to going south from Beregost.
Eyebrows will still be raised liberally if he offers to curl the curlies on my halfling's toes. He just better stay away from Viconia, my halfling's sweet little tanning booth mixup. Maybe Imoen and/or Rasaad can serve as his diversion.
Heck, one of my homecountries main ruleing polticians is gay and no body gives a fuck.
Took way to long if you ask me. Let's just hope that even the last stupid prick finally notices, that being homo- or bi-sexual has nothing to do with someone being a bad person.
Now go make Viconia bi-sexual for BG2:EE, Overhaul! You know you want to!
(Gosh, I'm so gay for her
PS: Just look at Metal Gear Solid for crying out loud! This game series is so homoerotic (especially the third and fourth game), it's not even funny! (Well actually it's quite hilarious...) I mean, the main character, one of the most manly video game heroes of all time lives together with his best friend and they raise a small girl together. Oh, and both are single (well, Otacon not out of own choice, but still).
And don't let me mention this one little scene during the end fight of MGS4...
SPOILER WARNING FOR MGS4!
I agree with everything you have said though so I have no objections man.
For the record, saying Dorn is evil because he's gay or gay because he's evil is like saying the black guy in X movie is evil because he's black. He isn't evil to support conservative people, he's evil because he is naturally.
If we can't have evil blacks, evil gays or evil women in fictional worlds then we are in serious trouble.
I hate the indoctrination of PCness.
Watch this guys:
While I haven't been around these forums long enough to know that sexuality discussions have been overdone, this discussion has been an entirely civil discourse on a potentially contentious topic.
I don't think that sexuality is the only thing that matters in character development, and I rather doubt anyone here actually does. Nonetheless, this is a noteworthy departure from the original game and merits some degree of discussion, I think.
There is obviously some context I am missing here (alluded to by yourself and @Shandyr ), but at least in a vacuum, this discussion strikes me as perfectly reasonable, and it is a topic worth speaking about.
We as a collective humanity aren't there yet. But I think we're stumbling in good directions.
When I say some people think all that matters is sexuality, I did just mean some people. Not everybody, not most I hope, but some people here don't make anything else matter.
Calling bisexual people gay tends to annoy bisexuals. Not because there's anything wrong with being gay, but because bisexual erasure is A Thing.
Not a coincidence people!
I think he lusts after your PC regardless of gender because he lusts after power, which you have in abundance.
Hey guys, why is dorn the only bisexual NPC? - View 340k, Replies 1659, page 1 of 27, 84 new
Not again this LGBT theme in a good game.
As if occupying TV and movies is not enough for them.