@Shandyr I'm tempted to go back and pick up different people just to see if he has comments about anyone else. I couldn't point the finger at Ajantis, the last member of my merry band of adventurers. (I even tried kicking a couple of the others, but I can't say I was gossiping with Ajantis) Seriously, I'm starting to think he and Dorn have some sort of bromance going on behind my back -_- I do have one thing you might enjoy:
*Dorn kills Imoen* Dorn:There. That should still any other tongues from wagging. Aramina: Thanks for sparing me the effort of doing that myself. (I know, I'm mean like that) Dorn: It was a pleasure. If you need any more killings, you have but to say the word.
*conversation ends* *short pause*
Ajantis: We can only be content that our companion has fallen while pursuing a just cause. (wait...what? I basically told Dorn to kill her, and that's a just cause? Hmm...methinks Ajantis is not really a Paladin)
and I agree 100% about the whole redemption thing. It's ok if it makes sense, but if someone tried to convince me Dorn could be redeemed I could never take them seriously. I mean, come on, he made a deal with a devil! He happily slaughters anyone on a whim...he completely enjoys being evil. Any CHARNAME that is interested in "saving" him is one he would never respect enough to listen to.
Is that all Dorn's romance is? I was at least hoping for Dorn to open up about his affection toward the PC.
Keep in mind that all three romances with the new NPCs will carry on over to BG2. That's probably where things start to heat up. By the end of Throne of Bhaal, Dorn will probably fall for CHARNAME like Viconia did.
@Arsene_Lupin: Jaheira's different, that's changing a mechanical value (her D&D alignment) to fit how she behaves in-game. It doesn't actually change who she is or how she behaves. She's only true neutral because druids have to be in AD&D.
I have gotten derailed from BG:EE by Skyrim, so I'm now lurking in this thread for more Dorn spoilers. Keep 'em coming!
Ok i knew i said something wrong ion the talks cause i never had a conversation where i could complement Dorn. And now i finished the game and screwed up the whole romance bit
Was it the conversation Where you gotta say you consider him a friend that starts it? cause i chose the "We do't have to be friends we just have to trust eachother" choise. Or was it the questioning your decisions talk? I picked the " If you disagree with me I'll respectfully ask you to leave" option. I wish there was a Walkthrough somewhere .
Anyway i can fix my later saves? Can i edit the variables someway? i don't want to have to go back all the way to chapter 3
@ElDiablo The dialogue with the "romance" in it is:
The questioning decisions talk. Without just giving you the whole dialogue chain, to get the option to compliment him, don't say anything remotely teasing (he'll either get annoyed or say you're weak) or too aggressive (that will just lead to a mini-standoff, where it still ends well but you lose the chance to flirt with him). At some point you will find an option to compliment him. Do so, then keep in mind that in the next set of choices there is a tricky option that will actually get him very very mad. As in mad enough to kill someone.
Hopefully that was enough of an explanation without giving everything away. If you really really want, I could send you the whole conversation, as I made a save a second before it fires. Cause I'm creepy and obsessive like that.
Edit: And I have no idea what the variables for Dorn even mean, so I can't help you there, sorry. At least in my game, all the ones labeled as romance variables have numbers that look more like timers. It doesn't seem to matter too much, as that is always the last timer talk I get with him.
@ElDiablo The dialogue with the "romance" in it is:
The questioning decisions talk. Without just giving you the whole dialogue chain, to get the option to compliment him, don't say anything remotely teasing (he'll either get annoyed or say you're weak) or too aggressive (that will just lead to a mini-standoff, where it still ends well but you lose the chance to flirt with him). At some point you will find an option to compliment him. Do so, then keep in mind that in the next set of choices there is a tricky option that will actually get him very very mad. As in mad enough to kill someone.
Hopefully that was enough of an explanation without giving everything away. If you really really want, I could send you the whole conversation, as I made a save a second before it fires. Cause I'm creepy and obsessive like that.
Edit: And I have no idea what the variables for Dorn even mean, so I can't help you there, sorry. At least in my game, all the ones labeled as romance variables have numbers that look more like timers. It doesn't seem to matter too much, as that is always the last timer talk I get with him.
I see. that sounds rather ..specific Do you all think one will be penalized if you missed that in BG 2EE?
My guess is that the devs just "seeded" hints of stories to come in the dialogues of the new npc's, to be fully realized in the next game. BG1 has never had a lot of dialogue or character development, without the BG NPC Project mod.
I appreciate all the voice acting, very well done, in what few dialogues we have here.
It looks to me like their efforts on the first go-around were heavily focused on coding, graphical, and other tech issues, and not as much on artistic creativity. I would guess that, with the heavy-lifting of technical revision done, they will be able to spend a lot more of their human resources on art and writing, for BG2:EE.
The devs posted an abridged version of some of the contract terms and one of the terms was effectively 'This is a port, you ain't changing anything existing unless you absolutely have to.' The NPCs bypass this of course, since they're added 'premium' stuff. However, there is another aspect to consider; writing and voice acting takes time and money (especially time, as I am sure many BGII modders I've spotted on this forum can attest to!). They already had a tight deadline, and writers would need to be at least vaguely familiar with the npcs (especially ones that appear in BGII as well, let alone as joinable characters) in order to avoid what players would see as character derailment. There's very little interaction between NPCS as @theacefes mentions on page two. They're glorified packmules and you'd lose little just building an entire group in multiplayer. If there was mod-level dialogue for three NPCs it would seem a bit out of place. Honestly, it already feels a bit out of place with what we've got but massive dialogue chains would be really stick out. Plus fellow members of the old-fart brigade might recall just how damned buggy Jaheria's stuff was in Baldur's Gate II in part due to it's length. It takes a good few versions and months to make an NPC mod stop being buggy, and that's with a dedicated team working on it. Which, again, the BG1EE team don't have.
Then there's the money aspect: to be perfectly blunt without the nostalgia goggles this is a very old game and in many ways horrifically dated. While it's fun for people like myself to retreat to a younger (and in my case, just as foolish) age and enjoy revisiting these places it's a bit of a crapshoot on just how profitable it is going to be. I believe it's done well on the Ipad apps sale charts, but I don't know about others. Paying voice actors/actresses for lines drains the money from other stuff, and one or two developers have publicly stated they hate romance paths precisely because they divert resources from making the game good. Along with poor design choices I feel Dragonage II discovered that the hard way. Back to the subject at hand the point I'm trying to make is there's little reason to spending time, money and effort on what may be a damp squib, something that may have trouble breaking even if it's 'just' a platform/OS port. Especially in the middle of a recession. No, it's better to test the waters (like Delainy/Durlyle originally did for the entire concept of romance paths) and drop it in Baldur's Gate II Enchanced Edition when the responsive is positive (and the first sold well enough of course.) There a 'full fledged' NPC is fair less intrusive to the game. It also has perhaps the added bonus of avoiding accidental 'First Girl Wins' syndrome. Assuming they even do an import-check on a BG1 savegame. Which in turn means you could be 'locked out' if you're starting in Baldur's Gate II....
I see no one have said anything about Rasaad's romance yet, what do you guys think?
I like him/his romance, I find funny that he tries to loosen up, he even tries to make jokes XD ! It has the potential to become a nice romance in BG2EE, IMO.
Yeah im stuck on "Somedays im suprised you let me tag along" kissy part...unless i piss her off and not get the kiss she hasent said anything since then......and i can just talk to her to do this convo over and over
That is far has Neere goes more like your middel school romance the a true adult relationship
On the topic of Dorn, I got some flirty dialogue with him. I said "I love when you refer to yourself in the third person," and something salacious after that, can't remember exactly what. Dorn got all flustered and was like "What?? What do you mean?"
Haven't played much since then, but I think it's progressing.
CLUAConsole:GetGlobal("DornRomanceActive","Global") isn't recognized by the engine, however CLUAConsole:SetGlobal("DornRomanceActive","Global","1") is, what doesn't make any sense.
Neera is cute, kind of reminds me of Veronica from Fallout New Vegas. But in some ways she seems to be competing with Imoen, personality-wise.
Rasaad is really sweet, and that was a surprise. 99% of male 'romances' seem to be with spoiled, hateful, broody emo kids (Anomen set a horrible precident!) so it was really refreshing to have a male romance who was gentle and kind for a change. However, I really hate his picture, so I commissioned a more 'Arabic' look for him so he could have a face to match his personality and voice.
I just butcher Dorn outside of Nashkel every time, so I've no interest in what he's like.
One thing annoys me though; it's 2013, not 1998. It's okay to be gay now, people...
I see no one have said anything about Rasaad's romance yet, what do you guys think? I like him/his romance, I find funny that he tries to loosen up, he even tries to make jokes XD ! It has the potential to become a nice romance in BG2EE, IMO.
I think he's a really refreshing change. It was nice to have a male romance who wasn't a complete jerk for once.
Neera is cute, kind of reminds me of Veronica from Fallout New Vegas. But in some ways she seems to be competing with Imoen, personality-wise.
Rasaad is really sweet, and that was a surprise. 99% of male 'romances' seem to be with spoiled, hateful, broody emo kids (Anomen set a horrible precident!) so it was really refreshing to have a male romance who was gentle and kind for a change. However, I really hate his picture, so I commissioned a more 'Arabic' look for him so he could have a face to match his personality and voice.
I just butcher Dorn outside of Nashkel every time, so I've no interest in what he's like.
One thing annoys me though; it's 2013, not 1998. It's okay to be gay now, people...
Aha! So that picture was commissioned by you! I was curious. I guess I owe you for another portrait
Neera is cute, kind of reminds me of Veronica from Fallout New Vegas. But in some ways she seems to be competing with Imoen, personality-wise.
Rasaad is really sweet, and that was a surprise. 99% of male 'romances' seem to be with spoiled, hateful, broody emo kids (Anomen set a horrible precident!) so it was really refreshing to have a male romance who was gentle and kind for a change. However, I really hate his picture, so I commissioned a more 'Arabic' look for him so he could have a face to match his personality and voice.
I just butcher Dorn outside of Nashkel every time, so I've no interest in what he's like.
One thing annoys me though; it's 2013, not 1998. It's okay to be gay now, people...
I agree about Neera and Imoen being rather similar (in my case, both have a grating, annoying voice and remind me of younger siblings - I had enough of that irl, don't need it in games).
The "it's okay to be gay" is a potential powder keg. It's been hinted/suspected/rumored that BG2EE will address the lack of lesbian romance options... Knowing the one new NPC in BG2EE will very likely be an EVIL female thief, that would make both non-straight NPCs evil. It's not 1998, but not 2030 either, so I'm not expecting a game to glorify non-straight orientations or anything; that would be (weird) scifi. Diversity away from "ALL SO EVIL" or simply neutral alignment and "however you want to play it" would be fine and reasonable.
A society where "everyone is bi" is weird scifi to me. It's not better than "everyone is straight". Such extremes simply don't exist in societies and it makes no sense to discriminate against one or another. When I hear about such a scenario - everyone is bi and lives happily ever after - I picture a Star Trek Original Series planet, complete with pseudo-historic costumes and cheap makeup. Planet Everyoneisbi fits right in with Planet WeAllHatePeopleWhoAreBlackOnOneSide and Planet WePunishViolentThoughtsWithDeath.
If a game makes all companion NPCs bi and have no restrictions who they'll romance whatsoever, that's just lazy writing to me, not glorification. I haven't played Dragon Age, but from what I read, that is what happened there.
Aha! So that picture was commissioned by you! I was curious. I guess I owe you for another portrait
Glad you like it!
He's a Calishite, and a scimitar-weilder, which says 'Sinbad' to me. The whole 'scowling Scarlet Brotherhood monk' look doesn't suit his voice and personality in my opinion.
A society where "everyone is bi" is weird scifi to me. It's not better than "everyone is straight". Such extremes simply don't exist in societies and it makes no sense to districiminate against one or another.
What you're overlooking, though, is that our contemporary concepts of "gay", "straight" and "bisexual" are culturally constructed. Sexual preference wasn't perceived as an indicator of identity two hundred years ago (sodomy was a crime because it was something you did, not something you were) and if you go even further back, ancient Grecian society and the Roman Empire had very different views on sexuality.
Worlds like Faerun and Thedas are markedly different from our own - to the extent that concepts such as "gay" or "straight" may not even exist there. "Dragon Age 2" never categorizes Hawke in one way or another if the love interest is same-sex, there's no "Aah, so you're gay!" moment. So I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine that in these particular fictional worlds, the dominant perception of sexuality is one which allows compatible people to be intimate regardless of their gender.
>It's not 1998, but not 2030 either, so I'm not expecting a game to glorify non-straight orientations or anything; that would be (weird) scifi.
Is Dragon Age 'glorifying non-straight orientations'?
What is so bad about allowing players to have the romance they want? It's only a game.
>Worlds like Faerun and Thedas are markedly different from our own - to the extent that concepts such as "gay" or "straight" may not even exist there.
This is pretty much what Ed Greenwood and David Gaider have said. 'You can be gay if you want. Nobody thinks it's a big deal either way.' In the 1st edition FR hardback handbook, there's a female town leader with a female consort
I'm not talking about in game perceptions. No-one makes any comments about Dorn being interested in a male charname. Though, yeah, his romance is only a romance if you want to interpret it that way; someone who is unaware of romance paths in the game will likely not have a moment of clarity in those dialogues. (And it can all change in BG2 anyway.) In game, no-one applies stereotypes or terms to Shar-Teel, who is both very aggressive towards men and very protective of women. In the real world, she would be labeled "butch lesbian", even without ever having a relationship with a woman.
I only mean the implications from an outside perspective. And you know people will draw conclusions based on the smallest things, regardless if there are good reasons for things being the way they are. For example, take the "OMG RACISM" discussion that spawned from Dynaheir and Khalid dying. Why did they really die - because someone decided to kill all non-caucasian characters? Or because Jaheira was very popular and appealed to a mostly male target audience as a romance option, which meant her husband had to go; and Minsc needed a traumatic event to develop his character further and he was arguably the more popular and iconic half of the NPC pair? Likely the latter, but that doesn't stop people from making the racism accusation. Now give them two evil and no neutral or good gay NPCs and they'll make a case - and here, I honestly can't see a good reason why both need to be evil. Writers need to consider the reactions of players. Some, myself among them, would just like to discuss the game and fun stuff about it on forums and leave topics like politics, racism and sexism out of it. So my disagreement with "all gay NPC are evil" is mostly my annoyance threshold for forum discussions talking.
Comments
Dorn:There. That should still any other tongues from wagging.
Aramina: Thanks for sparing me the effort of doing that myself. (I know, I'm mean like that)
Dorn: It was a pleasure. If you need any more killings, you have but to say the word.
*conversation ends*
*short pause*
Ajantis: We can only be content that our companion has fallen while pursuing a just cause.
(wait...what? I basically told Dorn to kill her, and that's a just cause? Hmm...methinks Ajantis is not really a Paladin)
and I agree 100% about the whole redemption thing. It's ok if it makes sense, but if someone tried to convince me Dorn could be redeemed I could never take them seriously. I mean, come on, he made a deal with a devil! He happily slaughters anyone on a whim...he completely enjoys being evil. Any CHARNAME that is interested in "saving" him is one he would never respect enough to listen to.
And does changing Jaheira's alignment to neutral good to fit her character count?
I have gotten derailed from BG:EE by Skyrim, so I'm now lurking in this thread for more Dorn spoilers. Keep 'em coming!
Anyway i can fix my later saves? Can i edit the variables someway? i don't want to have to go back all the way to chapter 3
Hopefully that was enough of an explanation without giving everything away. If you really really want, I could send you the whole conversation, as I made a save a second before it fires. Cause I'm creepy and obsessive like that.
Edit: And I have no idea what the variables for Dorn even mean, so I can't help you there, sorry. At least in my game, all the ones labeled as romance variables have numbers that look more like timers. It doesn't seem to matter too much, as that is always the last timer talk I get with him.
The NPCs bypass this of course, since they're added 'premium' stuff. However, there is another aspect to consider; writing and voice acting takes time and money (especially time, as I am sure many BGII modders I've spotted on this forum can attest to!).
They already had a tight deadline, and writers would need to be at least vaguely familiar with the npcs (especially ones that appear in BGII as well, let alone as joinable characters) in order to avoid what players would see as character derailment. There's very little interaction between NPCS as @theacefes mentions on page two. They're glorified packmules and you'd lose little just building an entire group in multiplayer. If there was mod-level dialogue for three NPCs it would seem a bit out of place. Honestly, it already feels a bit out of place with what we've got but massive dialogue chains would be really stick out. Plus fellow members of the old-fart brigade might recall just how damned buggy Jaheria's stuff was in Baldur's Gate II in part due to it's length. It takes a good few versions and months to make an NPC mod stop being buggy, and that's with a dedicated team working on it. Which, again, the BG1EE team don't have.
Then there's the money aspect: to be perfectly blunt without the nostalgia goggles this is a very old game and in many ways horrifically dated. While it's fun for people like myself to retreat to a younger (and in my case, just as foolish) age and enjoy revisiting these places it's a bit of a crapshoot on just how profitable it is going to be. I believe it's done well on the Ipad apps sale charts, but I don't know about others.
Paying voice actors/actresses for lines drains the money from other stuff, and one or two developers have publicly stated they hate romance paths precisely because they divert resources from making the game good. Along with poor design choices I feel Dragonage II discovered that the hard way.
Back to the subject at hand the point I'm trying to make is there's little reason to spending time, money and effort on what may be a damp squib, something that may have trouble breaking even if it's 'just' a platform/OS port. Especially in the middle of a recession.
No, it's better to test the waters (like Delainy/Durlyle originally did for the entire concept of romance paths) and drop it in Baldur's Gate II Enchanced Edition when the responsive is positive (and the first sold well enough of course.) There a 'full fledged' NPC is fair less intrusive to the game. It also has perhaps the added bonus of avoiding accidental 'First Girl Wins' syndrome. Assuming they even do an import-check on a BG1 savegame. Which in turn means you could be 'locked out' if you're starting in Baldur's Gate II....
...well anyway, I hope you get the idea.
I like him/his romance, I find funny that he tries to loosen up, he even tries to make jokes XD !
It has the potential to become a nice romance in BG2EE, IMO.
Haven't played much since then, but I think it's progressing.
Rasaad is really sweet, and that was a surprise. 99% of male 'romances' seem to be with spoiled, hateful, broody emo kids (Anomen set a horrible precident!) so it was really refreshing to have a male romance who was gentle and kind for a change. However, I really hate his picture, so I commissioned a more 'Arabic' look for him so he could have a face to match his personality and voice.
I just butcher Dorn outside of Nashkel every time, so I've no interest in what he's like.
One thing annoys me though; it's 2013, not 1998. It's okay to be gay now, people...
The "it's okay to be gay" is a potential powder keg. It's been hinted/suspected/rumored that BG2EE will address the lack of lesbian romance options... Knowing the one new NPC in BG2EE will very likely be an EVIL female thief, that would make both non-straight NPCs evil. It's not 1998, but not 2030 either, so I'm not expecting a game to glorify non-straight orientations or anything; that would be (weird) scifi. Diversity away from "ALL SO EVIL" or simply neutral alignment and "however you want to play it" would be fine and reasonable.
Besides, it's FR, and Ed Greenwood has said being gay in FR is just a personality quirk and not a big deal or moral issue.
If a game makes all companion NPCs bi and have no restrictions who they'll romance whatsoever, that's just lazy writing to me, not glorification. I haven't played Dragon Age, but from what I read, that is what happened there.
Worlds like Faerun and Thedas are markedly different from our own - to the extent that concepts such as "gay" or "straight" may not even exist there. "Dragon Age 2" never categorizes Hawke in one way or another if the love interest is same-sex, there's no "Aah, so you're gay!" moment. So I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine that in these particular fictional worlds, the dominant perception of sexuality is one which allows compatible people to be intimate regardless of their gender.
Is Dragon Age 'glorifying non-straight orientations'?
What is so bad about allowing players to have the romance they want? It's only a game.
>Worlds like Faerun and Thedas are markedly different from our own - to the extent that concepts such as "gay" or "straight" may not even exist there.
This is pretty much what Ed Greenwood and David Gaider have said. 'You can be gay if you want. Nobody thinks it's a big deal either way.' In the 1st edition FR hardback handbook, there's a female town leader with a female consort
I only mean the implications from an outside perspective. And you know people will draw conclusions based on the smallest things, regardless if there are good reasons for things being the way they are. For example, take the "OMG RACISM" discussion that spawned from Dynaheir and Khalid dying. Why did they really die - because someone decided to kill all non-caucasian characters? Or because Jaheira was very popular and appealed to a mostly male target audience as a romance option, which meant her husband had to go; and Minsc needed a traumatic event to develop his character further and he was arguably the more popular and iconic half of the NPC pair? Likely the latter, but that doesn't stop people from making the racism accusation. Now give them two evil and no neutral or good gay NPCs and they'll make a case - and here, I honestly can't see a good reason why both need to be evil.
Writers need to consider the reactions of players. Some, myself among them, would just like to discuss the game and fun stuff about it on forums and leave topics like politics, racism and sexism out of it. So my disagreement with "all gay NPC are evil" is mostly my annoyance threshold for forum discussions talking.
Especially with emotive things like the gay issue.