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Very new BG2EE player. Don't know what I'm doing. Need some help please.

BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
Hi there,

I have recently started playing BG2EE for the first time. I am playing SOA v 2.6.6.0 on PC.

I guess I am an old school gamer? A long time ago I played PC RPGs like Fallout 2 but I have never played a game based on D&D rules (and I haven't ever played any D&D in real life either). My comfort level is more Diablo 2 hack n' slash-type games. I can tell I am not very good at BG2EE.

I really want to play keep playing BG2EE because I've heard so many good things about it. But I'm not a strong player, and after playing BG2EE for a little while I now feel stuck and would love some help.

I would like to apologise in advance for my ignorance of D&D and for asking questions that probably have obvious answers.

My current status: I have a party of very low level characters, and I have managed to get out of Irenicus' dungeon. I have managed to work out how to travel to places on the World Map when locations are revealed to me via quests. I have thus far made progress in fights by using a "brute force" approach. I am not strategic enough, don't know how to get the best out of each class, and don't know the counters to spells by enemy mages. My main character is a Sorcerer but I'm just really using Magic Missile and Orb again and again.

How I am stuck:
  1. I've got to the point now where the "brute force" isn't working anymore. Any quest/high level fights I get into, the members of my party keep saying "my weapon has no effect". I've tried reading up on this and it seems like I need to get weapons that are +1, +2, or +3. I have no idea where to get these, do you buy them from shopkeepers?? Some of the enemies I am unable to damage include trolls, golems, Shadows, but there have been others too.
  2. Either I'm getting the issue above, or the enemies I'm fighting are immune to everything except certain types of attack. For example, in the Windspear Hills quest, I think the enemies can only be hurt by fire and acid. But my sorcerer's fire spells quickly get used up and then I can no longer hurt the enemies anymore. What to do?
  3. I am confused by items that have a blue/purple outline, what are these? At first I thought these were magic/enchanted items but when I right-click on a purple outline item, the item doesn't seem special or enchanted.

Any help to my questions above would be appreciated. I will probably have more "stupid questions" in the future unfortunately.

Thanks
Post edited by BadSorcerer on
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Comments

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,872
    Yes, magic weapons are very important. You can buy them from various shops, but you should also just find plenty of them when adventuring. Which brings me to the second point...
    I am confused by items that have a blue/purple outline, what are these? At first I thought these were magic/enchanted items but when I write-click on a purple outline item, the item doesn't seem special or enchanted.
    The blue background is for unidentified magic items. Until you identify them, they have the descriptions of generic items of their type.
    How do you identify them? Either examine them (right click in the inventory) with a character that has high lore (usually a mage, thief, or bard), use a scroll of Identify (with a character capable of using scrolls), or expend a memorized Identify spell. When you examine an item and don't immediately identify it with lore, there will be an "Identify" button. Click on that button and choose "spell" or "scroll"; they'll be greyed out if you can't do that right now.
    There's also an item "Glasses of Identification" that's essentially a reusable scroll; three uses of Identify each day. You can buy that from Arledrian.

    Identifying the various magic items you've picked up should substantially help with your magic weapon problems.
    For example, in the Windspear Hills quest, I think the enemies can only be hurt by fire and acid.
    Trolls can only be killed by fire and acid. That doesn't mean that they can't be hurt by other stuff; beat on them with any sort of damage until they fall unconscious, then apply fire or acid before they can get up. Archers can pick up fire and acid arrows, plus Bernard sells a flaming sword; it won't be just your mages that can kill trolls if you prepare properly.
    But ... there aren't exactly a lot of trolls in the Windspear hills; there are only a couple of them in the dungeon. They're much more common in some of the other major quests. You may have misidentified the issue here...
    (By the way, you don't need magic weapons to hit trolls. It's just that weapons that deal fire or acid damage are pretty much always magical.)
  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 2,700
    You can also identify items in temples. Talk to the priest and chose the question mark symbol (I think it is) in the shop.

    And yes, fights in BGII get frustrating like that. It's also very helpful if your group's mage can cast Breach and other spells that dispell effects from opponents.
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    Hi @jmerry,

    Thank you so much for your help!

    I got the Glasses of Identification like you suggested and my party has been a revelation! I was able to complete the Hexxat quest in the graveyard and kill Dragomir :)

    I'm now making progress on quests I was stuck on, and I am really enjoying it. Thank you for your help, I've gone from 50/50 about continuing with the game, to being stuck in again & loving it.

    Cheers
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    jastey wrote: »
    You can also identify items in temples. Talk to the priest and chose the question mark symbol (I think it is) in the shop.

    And yes, fights in BGII get frustrating like that. It's also very helpful if your group's mage can cast Breach and other spells that dispell effects from opponents.

    Thank you so much for this advice @jastey. I had no idea priests in temples could identify items!

    Thank you for the advice regarding Breach and other spells that dispel effects. I am now making sure to right click on all spells I pick up and learn what they do & how they can complement my attack B)

    I wanted to "React" to your comment like I have seen on other posts but I couldn't do that. Do you know how that works on this forum?

  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 633
    edited July 2023
    Don't underestimate summoned monsters, they can soak up a lot of damage and nasty spells from enemy mages that would otherwise hit your party.
    Undead summons are my favorite as they are immune to most of the effects that are really debilitating (Hold Person, Charm, Fear, Level Drain, Confusion, Poison, Psionics etc..)

    And for big "trash" fights (i.e not bosses) that can be hard, crowd controll can be a key ingredient. Either Hold Person, stuns, even Web, can be used to keep enemies out of the fight so that you deal with only half of them at a time.

    If you have a Druid you absolutely should have Insect spells.. the spell description doesn't really do it justice, as it will absolutely wreck enemy casters - making them unable to do much at all.

    Don't underestimate Turn Undead. Paladins and Multiclass Clerics will generally have too low turning level to be very effective, but single classed clerics (such as Anomen, sort of.. he barely has any xp as fighter) can use Turn Undead to blast undead to bits (seriously, they explode all over the place) or at least fear them and send them running, so you can take them down easily.. When fighting numerous vampires or shades/shadows as an example.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,872
    Reactions to posts are not currently enabled; they were in the past, but that went away during a forum software update.
  • Allanon81Allanon81 Member Posts: 340
    @BadSorcerer There’s this for deeper reference. BG2EE is 2nd edition rules. https://archive.org/details/dnd-second-edition-all-26-books
  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 2,700
    Thank you for the advice regarding Breach and other spells that dispel effects. I am now making sure to right click on all spells I pick up and learn what they do & how they can complement my attack
    Thank you!
    After knowing this game for 20 years myself this is like watching a baby walk for the first time. B) I hope you'll enjoy the game as much as most of us do.
    (Next step would be including mods. :D )
  • BardsSuck_BardsSuck_ Member Posts: 133
    This game is hard to get into, i found it very hard to get into it, i had to push myself to play it initially. It just takes time and forcing yourself to playing it. Then it becomes self apparent.
  • TheFinalEntityTheFinalEntity Member Posts: 10
    Hi there,

    How I am stuck:
    1. I've got to the point now where the "brute force" isn't working anymore. Any quest/high level fights I get into, the members of my party keep saying "my weapon has no effect". I've tried reading up on this and it seems like I need to get weapons that are +1, +2, or +3. I have no idea where to get these, do you buy them from shopkeepers?? Some of the enemies I am unable to damage include trolls, golems, Shadows, but there have been others too.
    2. Either I'm getting the issue above, or the enemies I'm fighting are immune to everything except certain types of attack. For example, in the Windspear Hills quest, I think the enemies can only be hurt by fire and acid. But my sorcerer's fire spells quickly get used up and then I can no longer hurt the enemies anymore. What to do?
    3. I am confused by items that have a blue/purple outline, what are these? At first I thought these were magic/enchanted items but when I write-click on a purple outline item, the item doesn't seem special or enchanted.

    Any help to my questions above would be appreciated. I will probably have more "stupid questions" in the future unfortunately.

    Thanks

    HELPFUL TIPS (No real spoilers but I put them behind a spoiler blocker as a courtesy):

    1.) GEER ^
    Magical I tems are available from the very start of the game in Irenicus' dungeon but just in case you sold them here is a short list of very useful magic items that are available early in the game:
    [*] +1 Axe, Docks district in a crate in the southwest plaza next to the closed fish stand
    [*] +1 Tuigan Bow (very nice early shortbow), copper coronet backrooms (talk to lehtinan and say you've got coin to spend and then tell him you're interested in "other" entertainment) dropped by the beastmaster (you fight him while freeing the slaves).
    [*] +2 Two handed sword (Sword of Chaos), Recieved for freeing the Djinni in Irenicus' dungeon.
    [*] +2 Shortsword (arbanes sword of agility), dropped by bandits after you travel between areas in Athkatla.
    [*] +3 Axe (Azuredge), sold at copper coronet after freeing hendak (he is the slave that asks you to free the slaves when you go into the back rooms,) this amazing +3 returning axe is available for the low low price of 3,500 gp. (THIS ITEM CAN INSTAKILL ANY UNDEAD THAT FAILS THE SAVE....with very few exceptions)
    [*] +3 Two Handed Sword (Lilarcor), This awesome (yet annoying) 2-handed sword is found by solving the riddle in the sewers during the "Free Hendak and the Slaves" quest. It makes its wielder immune to charm and confusion (Not dominate/chaos though)(Secret door from copper coronet leads to the sewer section with the riddle. this one is easy peasy.)
    [*] +2 Club (Gnasher) Drops from an enemy outside of the druid grove cave during the "trouble in trademeet" quest.
    [*] +3 Crimson Dart, This awesome returning dart can be found in the first level of watchers keep. (You can escape the first level without clearing the boss battle so you can easily either stealth in and grab it or you can fight your way to it, either way it is pretty easy to get)
    [*] +3 Flail of Ages, This amazing flail can be crafted during the "De Arnise Keep" quest. (easy quest, great xp, bring fire and acid for trolls)
    [*] +2 Long Sword (Namarra), This amazing long sword is very easy to get. Defeat the "crypt king" in the graveyard district tomb in the northwest. This sword allows the wielder to cast silence 15' radius 3x/day(Door is locked)
    [*] +2 Long Sword (Daystar), This amazing long sword can be found in the chest inside the lichs' lair behind the secret door in the Crooked Cane Inn. It is excellent at killing undead as it lets the wielder cast sunray (a 7th level cleric spell!!) 1x/day and it also does double damage against undead. (Free the slaves in copper coronet and buy azuredge to make this battle easy, REMEMBER set the weapon to "thrown" for ranged use but REMEMBER to change it to melee if there are enemies swinging at you in melee or you get a -4 AC penalty for using ranged weapons in melee) (you can also cheese the fight by dipping in and out of the room the lich is in but that's NO FUN!)
    [*] +2 Staff Spear, decent starting weapon that can occasionally be found in Irenicus' dungeon but is also rewarded upon completion of Xzar's little errand quest in the docks district (he is found at the bottom of the stairs south of the seas' bounty Inn.)
    [*] +2 Scimitar (Belm), This amazing scimitar is found in the abandoned tower south of the cottage in the druid grove map during the "trouble in Trademeet quest. It gives the wielder and extra attack each round!! (it is in the haystack next to the cow.)
    [*] +2 Sling (Sling of Seeking), Sold by Bernard in the copper coronet after freeing Hendak and the slaves. (3000gp)
    [*] +2 Spear (Spear of the Unicorn), decent starting spear found in the troll mound on the druid grove map during the "Trouble in Trademeet" quest.
    [*] Black Spider Figurine, This awesome trinket is located in the spider maw, which is located in the underground crypts (southwest graveyard district). It is a quick item slot that allows the user to summon Kithix for 1 hour. Kithix is a poisonous spider that can use a single target web ability 2x/day.
    [*] Silver Horn of Valhalla, This useful and upgradeable quick slot item summons a 5th level berserk fighter for 1 turn (10 rounds). The fighter is permanently berserk and will attack friend and foe alike HOWEVER, he is not confused and so once he starts attacking something he stays on it (unless it gets too far away or goes invisible), this may sound like a downside however there are many benefits to his berserk status in the form of immunity to many CC spells/abilities.


    !!AN EASY FYGHT, GR8 LOoT and MUCH MONEEZ!!
    There is also a fight in the sewers (enter from temple district) that is a cake walk in the base game (i.e. unmodded) that can reward you with a TON of great loot (and/or money if you sell some of it) the loot includes: +1 full plate mail (!!), +2 small shield (x2), +2 Axe (Hangard's axe, returning), plate mail +1, +2 small shield, helm of charm protection, +2 morning star (wyvern's tail), full Plate Mail (non magic, still great), plate mail (x2) and some other nice random treasure.

    Also in the center of the sewers there is a gang of kobolds led by a rahkshasa. The rahkshasa drop the "Cloak of the Sewers," which is an awesome cloak that functions as a pseudo cloak of protection (+1AC but no save bonus) however, it also allows the wearer to shapeshift into some very useful forms: Rat, Troll and Mustard Jelly (!!).

    2.) MOAR GRRZ
    Next I would recommend these (after getting weapons and gear, +2 weapons at least + decent AC + ):
    [*] Paws of the Cheetah (Boots of Speed), Dropped by an enemy in the planar prison during the "Rescue Raelis and Haer'Dalis from the Planar Prison"(Go to the basement of the Five Flagons Inn in Bridge district to start the quest)
    [*] +3 Dagger (Pixie Prick) This amazing Dagger is dropped by an enemy in the planar prison during the "Rescue Raelis and Haer'Dalis from the Planar Prison" quest. It puts enemies who fail the save to sleep for two rounds, meaning guaranteed hits on anyone that gets slept by it...very nice. (Go to the basement of the Five Flagons Inn in Bridge district to start the quest)
    [*] +2 Quarterstaff (Staff of Air), This awesome quarterstaff is dropped by the master of thralls during the "Rescue Raelis and Haer'Dalis from the Planar Prison" quest. It instantly kills any air elemental that fails its save when struck and it can even summon a greater air elemental 1x/day. MORE IMPORTANTLY it has 10 charges to use for Sleep Cloud which is a very unique and powerful ability that has a range of 40', a radius of 12' and puts any enemies who fail their save vs death (NOT VS SPELL) to sleep for 3 rounds ALSO the sleep cloud itself remains for 8 rounds attempting to sleep anyone within the cloud each round (party included). (NOTE: The awesomeness of this ability is that it is a level 0 effect and so bypasses "spell level immunities" such as globes of invulnerability, it also can be recharged by selling the staff of air to a merchant and buying it back. Sleep cloud is still affected by MR and Elves and other creatures with resistance to sleep/enchantment magic can resist the effect as per their racial trait but they are NOT immune to it. Creatures with immunity to sleep are unaffected)
    [*] Wand of Cloudkill, found in the same location as the Rod of Resurrection listed below.
    [*] Rod of Resurrection, Found in the "grill" in wizards lair during the rescue Haer'dalis quest (part one of the above quest.) Has 10 charges of "Resurrect." DO NOT use it to resurrect unless absolutely necessary because you can use it on LIVING characters to full heal them, even in fights, plus it is a rod so like wands there is no cast time. (changed in 2.6, no longer full heals living characters, still full heals resurrected characters though.) (Use it sparingly as you will undoubtedly regret wasting it needlessly and there is no recharging it.)
    [*] +2 Short Sword (Kundane), this awesome short sword drops by the female thrall in the southeast corner of the planar prison during the "Rescue Raelis and Haer'Dalis from the Planar Prison" quest. It grants the wielder an additional attack each round!!
    [*] +2 Long Sword (Adjatha the Drinker), This amazing long sword drops from the warden during the "Rescue Raelis and Haer'Dalis from the Planar Prison" quest. It drains 1hp from the foe to the wielder on hit as well as making the wielder immune to charm and domination effects.

    2.) LEARNIN TA FIGHT GUD (THA BAYSIKS)
    [*] Some enemies are only slain by specific elements and some enemies are immune to certain types of weapons, i.e. mustard slimes are immune to piercing, poison, lightning and have high resistance to cold and missile damage BUT they only have 30% resistance to bludgeoning and slashing damage. They have no resistance against magic or fire damage. Thus instead of using spells they can be slain with a bludgeoning/slashing weapon fairly easily. A common example of this is a troll which can be damaged normally until a certain point, i.e. when their HP reaches 0 they will fall down and become invulnerable to ALL Damage EXCEPT FIRE and/or ACID while the regenerate to full health. When they are downed in this way hit them with any source of fire/acid damage (1 fire/acid damage is enough) and they will die.

    [*] Some enemies can only be hurt by weapons of a certain "quality," i.e. normal weapons, +1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6 magic weapons. Common examples include vampires who are immune to weapons of +1 and lower enchantment, i.e. they are immune to normal weapons and +1 weapons and require a +2 weapon in order to damage them in physical combat. Another common example is a mage that casts protection from normal missiles and Protection from magical weapons on themselves, i.e. while these buffs last the mage is immune to all non-magical projectiles as well as ALL magical weapons of ANY enchantment level, thus to hurt a mage that is protected in this manner, a non-magical melee weapon is needed. Protection from magical weapons is a very short buff, lasting only 4 rounds but it is VERY strong. A hard CC will effectively negate it as almost all CC effects last longer than 4 rounds. Either way it always pays to have a non-magical weapon you are good with handy at all times. The spells: Protection from normal weapons and Protections from magical weapons cannot be stacked HOWEVER, characters and enemies who gain protection from normal weapons through some means other than the protection from normal weapons and other mantle spells CAN cast the protection from magical weapons spell, thus making themselves immune to ALL weapons for 4 rounds. To get rid of such combat/specific protection spells as these use the spell BREACH, 5th level, single target, strips ALL combat/specific protections from the target. The lesson here is study your spells/abilities as well as your enemy and their spells/abilities know what does what and how to counter and/or bypass it. There isn't anything in the game that makes the enemy completely immune to everything. Although I will say a "Rahkshasa" are annoying enemies indeed (when higher level or when playing in modded SCS runs), they are: immune to spells of 7th level and lower (NOT THEIR OWN SPELLS), immune to non-magical weapons AND they cast spells like protection from magic weapons, blur, mirror image, haste, stoneskin, etc. Even rahkshasa (though annoying) can be brought down fairly easily with the right tactics and stratagems.

    3.) Items with a blue tint over their inventory icon are unidentified. if you have enough lore through: character level, intelligence, wisdom and/or bardic lore you can identify them just by right clicking them. If not then consider using an identify spell on them or visit a temple to have the item identified. HINT: There is an item called the "Glasses of Identification" sold by the merchant 'Arledrian' who sells items on the second floor of the house where you spoke with Galen Bayle about Imoen and Irenicus (the guy who will help you for 20000gp). The house is in the east part of the slums district. These glasses are very useful as they allow you to cast identify 3x/day.

    I hope this list helps you, these are early game items however, you will likely find that a few of them are amazing all the way through to the end of the game!
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    Hi @TheFinalEntity,

    Thank you so much for the fighting basics tips, super helpful.

    One question: when you say 'A hard CC will effectively negate it as almost all CC effects last longer than 4 rounds.' - What does CC stand for?

    Thanks.
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    jmerry wrote: »
    Reactions to posts are not currently enabled; they were in the past, but that went away during a forum software update.

    Ahh, now I understand. Thanks for clearing that one up for me!
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    Hi @Khyron,

    Thank you so much for your reply.

    You are right about summoned monsters, I am just beginning to work out how to use that tactic effectively.

    My main character is a Sorcerer but I don't think I know how to use him properly. It looks like other wizard/mage type characters have to "learn" spells, whereas as I understand it Sorcerers don't do that? So beyond choosing my spells at the character creation stage, how my Sorcerer gets new spells is a mystery to me. Does it happen with levelling up?

    Lastly, you mentioned Turning Undead to fight the Undead. Is this because the Undead are particularly vulnerable from their own kind?

    Thanks.
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    Allanon81 wrote: »
    @BadSorcerer There’s this for deeper reference. BG2EE is 2nd edition rules. https://archive.org/details/dnd-second-edition-all-26-books

    Thank you very much for this @Allanon81.
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    BardsSuck_ wrote: »
    This game is hard to get into, i found it very hard to get into it, i had to push myself to play it initially. It just takes time and forcing yourself to playing it. Then it becomes self apparent.

    Thanks for the encouragement @BardsSuck_.

    Yeah, I think I'm over the hump now I've learnt about identifying magic items. That has been a game changer for me!
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    jastey wrote: »
    Thank you for the advice regarding Breach and other spells that dispel effects. I am now making sure to right click on all spells I pick up and learn what they do & how they can complement my attack
    Thank you!
    After knowing this game for 20 years myself this is like watching a baby walk for the first time. B) I hope you'll enjoy the game as much as most of us do.
    (Next step would be including mods. :D )

    :D Yeah I don't think I will brave Mods just yet :p
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,872
    It looks like other wizard/mage type characters have to "learn" spells, whereas as I understand it Sorcerers don't do that? So beyond choosing my spells at the character creation stage, how my Sorcerer gets new spells is a mystery to me. Does it happen with levelling up?
    Yes, sorcerers learn new spells when they level up. You learn a new level 5 spell at each of class levels 10, 11, 13, 15, and 28, for example.
    I actually wouldn't recommend a sorcerer for a new player. If you pick a spell and it turns out to be a dud ... you're stuck with it for as long as you keep playing that character. There are no opportunities to forget and replace spells for a sorcerer. Conversely, if a mage memorizes a spell and it turns out to be a dud, they can just memorize a different spell the next day.
    Lastly, you mentioned Turning Undead to fight the Undead. Is this because the Undead are particularly vulnerable from their own kind?
    "Turn Undead" is an ability that clerics and paladins have - the skull icon on their ability bar. Compare the cleric's level to the undead's level, with a slight random element; if you succeed on the check, that undead creature runs away as if panicked. Or if you succeed by a particularly large amount, that creature is destroyed (good/neutral clerics) or dominated (evil clerics). As long as you stay in the mode, the game attempts to turn all nearby undead once per round.

    One particularly fun combo is to use the Sanctuary spell with turning. Cast Sanctuary (level 1 cleric spell), and the enemies will be unable to attack you for ten rounds, as long as you don't attack or cast offensive spells. Using the Turn Undead ability is fine, though ... so you can just walk into a group of undead with TU active, wait a few seconds, and - splat.

    Note that the one good paladin NPC you can recruit (Keldorn) happens to have a kit that loses Turn Undead. Oh well. The abilities he gets instead are worth it.
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    jmerry wrote: »
    I actually wouldn't recommend a sorcerer for a new player. If you pick a spell and it turns out to be a dud ... you're stuck with it for as long as you keep playing that character.

    :# Ok, good to know. I've actually become quite attached to my Sorcerer so I may try to persist with him if I can.
    jmerry wrote: »
    "Turn Undead" is an ability that clerics and paladins have - the skull icon on their ability bar. Compare the cleric's level to the undead's level, with a slight random element; if you succeed on the check, that undead creature runs away as if panicked. Or if you succeed by a particularly large amount, that creature is destroyed (good/neutral clerics) or dominated (evil clerics). As long as you stay in the mode, the game attempts to turn all nearby undead once per round.

    Thank you for this advice. Some of it goes over my head unfortunately. It sounds as if once a cleric/paladin has "turned", a check happens? Is this check automatic? And what does "turn" mean - doesn't mean any Undead can be turned back to what they used to be?

    Thanks
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,872
    If you're feeling attached to the character, go ahead and keep playing. That's more important than optimization - even experienced players often suffer from "restartitis" when they can't get into a character.

    And on the mechanics ... all right, let's talk modal abilities.

    A number of classes have "modal" abilities - Turn Undead (clerics, paladins), Find Traps/Detect Illusion (thieves, monks, shamans), Hide in Shadows (thieves, monks, rangers), Bard Song (bards), Shaman Dance (shamans).
    For all of these abilities, you choose to use it by hitting the button for it on your ability bar, or you can customize your character's AI script to automatically use that ability when you're not doing something else. While the mode is active, it does its thing once per round, whatever that thing is. Your modal ability is canceled whenever you do basically anything else other than moving, and you can only have one such ability active at a time.

    So, for example, I hit my cleric's Turn Undead button because there are shadows around. Nothing happens right away, but after a few seconds the ability pulses. Several instances of "Undead Turned" show up in the log, and the shadows run away. Then I decide I'm done with that, and tell the cleric to attack with his mace. The button is no longer highlighted, and "Stopped Turning Undead" shows up in the log.

    On the language ... that's "turned" as in "turned away". You can't turn undead back to what they used to be ... with two exceptions.
    First, a bit that you'd never find unless you knew about it already; if you cast the spell "Resurrection" on a mummy, they return to life as an ordinary person and you get XP as if you killed the mummy. This isn't actually useful, as it's easier to just kill the mummy.
    Second, there's a plot point later in the game in which a companion may be abducted and turned into a vampire. Fortunately, the plot gives you a chance to cure them, by killing the vampire version of that companion and then going through a specific ritual.
  • The_Baffled_KingThe_Baffled_King Member Posts: 147
    I haven't seen pausing mentioned yet. If you aren't using pause during fights, that's probably the single most significant general change you could make to help yourself (besides identifying items so you have magic weapons!). The game features several optional auto-pause settings: many people probably use auto-pause on sighting an enemy, and on trap detected; I find auto-pause on target destroyed, and on serious injury (30% of HP remaining), to be particularly useful as well.

    The Baldur's Gate Wiki will probably be a big help: https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Baldur's_Gate_Wiki

    It tends to be wrong occasionally, usually about minor things, because it can be updated by people who don't look directly at the game files and confuse themselves as a result. People may mix up mod-added changes with the unmodded game, or generalise incorrectly; for example, although most creatures with the same name have identical statistics, that isn't always the case.

    On the strategic side of things, the BG Wiki tends to focus a bit too much on high level play, by which I mean when your party members have around 3 million Experience, with most single class characters in the region of Level 20, and you're heading into the Throne of Bhaal expansion. If you keep that in mind, and read it with a pinch of salt, the Wiki is fairly useful.
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    jmerry wrote: »
    On the language ... that's "turned" as in "turned away". You can't turn undead back to what they used to be ... with two exceptions.

    Thank you @jmerry. It was the language that was tripping me up. Thanks for this.
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    Hi @The_Baffled_King, thank you so much for this advice. Fortunately a tips and tricks guide I read before starting playing clued me into auto pause & it has been invaluable.

    Thank you for the tip to use the Wiki. I had managed to find that on my own, but I wasn't aware of that background information you mentioned so thank you for that.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    the BG magic system is not easy to master but incredibly fun and powerful to play once mastered, in this game casters rule, even if it is perfectly possible to solo it with a plain fighter.
    I suggest you this link https://sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm
    is old and not updated for EE, so there is some inaccuracy and some suggested tactics are no more possible in EE but IMHO is still the best possible start point to understand the magic system for a newbie, I hope it will help you.
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    edited July 2023
    Hi @gorgonzola, thank you for this, super helpful. Especially this page: https://sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/GeneralSpellInfo.htm, there's heaps there I did not know and I'm very happy to now know!

    The one thing that completely baffles me is the references on that page to "save-or-else" under 'Saving throws' and 'Charms'.

    While I broadly understand the idea of saving throws (thanks to https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Saving_throw ), I have no idea what save-or-else is referring to…
    Post edited by BadSorcerer on
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,872
    The idea of "save or else" is that when you cast that offensive spell, it doesn't hurt the enemy by dealing damage. Rather, it inflicts some status effect that makes it much easier for your damage dealers to kill that target. And since this is D&D, that spell has a saving throw; save and nothing happens, or else fail the save and lose. Some spells in this category: Hold Person, Slow, Confusion.

    This is a bit of language that has mutated over time; I think the earliest version was "save or die", but most of these effects don't kill outright, so variants like "save or lose" or "save or suck" came into use. The exact phrase "save or else" isn't one I'm familiar with, but it's clearly something in this lineage.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    edited July 2023
    One more thing that I don't remember if is in that guide is the effect of magic resistance that some creatures, like the dragons, have naturally or that can be obtained trough spells or items.
    let's say that a certain dragon has 50% MR, then he has 50% chance that a spell cast against him has no effect, then if the spell passes the MR check sawing throws kick in. You cast a Fireball upon that dragon and there is a 50% chance that he gets no damage due to the MR, then he rolls a save and if he saves takes only 1/2 damage, if he fails he takes full damage. There are both spells to boost and lower MR. And certain spells are blocked by MR while others bypass it (and in the description of the spell usually this is not quoted).
    This type of resistance works in a different way then the physical damage and elemental damages resistances where there is no check and a percentage of the damage proportional to the amount of resistance is avoided every time.
    So if the dragon of the previous example has also 30% of fire resistance there is 50% chance that the fireball is completely bolked by the MR, then depending on the sawing throws check he will get 70% of the damage or 35% of it (1/2 of 70% because he has saved). Also ST can be boosted or weakened, to weaken them the best spells are the clerical Doom and the Arcane Greater Malison.
    To damage powerful enemies you have to breach their physical defences and attack them with suitable weapons, i.e. clay golems are immune to piercing and slashing and vampires need enchanted weapons and eventually you have to get rid of their MR and lower their ST if you attack them with damaging spells.
    The magic system is quite complicated, but if you don't play a super hard modded game is not really needed to be master, vanilla up to core rules and with a little effort also on insane difficulty can be played with no problems even by a beginner or casual player, then if you want you can bring the challenge at an other level: no reload (if the main character dies game over, if a comrade dies and can not be resurrected you loose it), Legacy of Baal, difficulty mods like Improved Anvil, SCS or Tactics Mod, going solo and on and over... There are a lot of ways you can keep the challenge alive as you gain knowledge, if there are players that begun to play this +20 years old game when it was launched ans are still playing it now there is a reason...
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    Hi @gorgonzola, thanks for this, yes I'm really beginning to appreciate the depth and replayability of BG2.

    I have a couple of questions based on what you've said if that's ok:
    1. Do I get saving throws as the main character? Or is that just something enemies get?
    2. I'm glad you mentioned clay golems as there is one in the Sphere I have no idea how to kill except try and find weapons that do Crushing damage (which so far I haven't seen or found). Are you saying I could cast Breach on the golem and then attack it with magic?

    Thanks.
  • BadSorcererBadSorcerer Member Posts: 23
    jmerry wrote: »
    The idea of "save or else" is that when you cast that offensive spell, it doesn't hurt the enemy by dealing damage. Rather, it inflicts some status effect that makes it much easier for your damage dealers to kill that target. And since this is D&D, that spell has a saving throw; save and nothing happens, or else fail the save and lose. Some spells in this category: Hold Person, Slow, Confusion.

    This is a bit of language that has mutated over time; I think the earliest version was "save or die", but most of these effects don't kill outright, so variants like "save or lose" or "save or suck" came into use. The exact phrase "save or else" isn't one I'm familiar with, but it's clearly something in this lineage.

    Thanks @jmerry. I really want to understand this but right now I don't. Hopefully it will become clearer in time!
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    edited July 2023

    [*] I'm glad you mentioned clay golems as there is one in the Sphere I have no idea how to kill except try and find weapons that do Crushing damage (which so far I haven't seen or found). Are you saying I could cast Breach on the golem and then attack it with magic?
    The spoiler is only meant to avoid a text wall, nothing that is to be kept secret inside... ;)
    Clay golems are immune to slashing and piercing and all kinds of golems have a huge magic resistance but usually no elemental damage. Also they are not casters so they are not protected by stoneskin or other spells and so using breach is not useful, it is useful vs mages, dragons and other foe that protect themselves with stoneskin, protection from normal or from magical weeapons or other spells that block or adsorb physical damage (the protection from xxx weapon completely block the hit while stoneskin adsorb the physical damage, this is very relevant, I will explain why later). Against casters that protect themselves with spells you may also have to use spells that take down their protections from spells i.e. if a mage is protected by Minor Globe of Invulnerability (you see a translucent globe around him) he is immune to spells up to lev.3 so your magic missile or flame arrow will bounce against the globe, as Minor Globe of Invulnerability is a lev 4 spell you have to use a spell that takes down magical protections of at least that level like spell trust, but notice that spell trust will not take down the better version of the globe that is a lev6 spell, you must use something more powerful like pierce magic to get rid of it.
    Back to our clay golem you have 2 ways to damage him, lowering his MR with spells like Lower Resistance and then attack him with damaging spells, possible, but very expensive for your mages spellbooks or better use a weapon that doe crushing damage, so a staff, a mace, a club, a warhammer or a flail/morningstar. It does not need to be enchanted as clay golems are not immune to normal weaspons, and you should not have problem to find some of them. An other way to damage him is to hit him with something that has elemental damage embedded i.e. using a bow and flame arrows, the arrow will not damage him as he is immune to piercing damage, but the fire damage will pass trough and damage him, again it is an expensive way to deal with him, flame arrows are expensive and there is only a limited amount in the game, but it is very relevant to know it.
    Why? Back to the mage: if the mage is protected by stoneskin the physical damage is adsorbed, consuming one of the skins, but not blocked so if you attack the mage with weapons with embedded elemental damage he will take that one, and you have a chance to disrupt his casting if the elemental damage is taken while he casts, his spell will be lost. This will buy you time avoiding that that enemy mage kills or damage some of your party while your mage breaches him or your physical attackers get rid of all of his skins, this is super useful to know vs mages. But if the same mage is protected by a spell that blocks the hit instead of absorbing its damage, i.e. the mantle spell, the fire damage will not pass trough as the hit is completely blocked, so you can not use an arrow with elemental damage to disrupt his casting.
    you will know which kind of damage (slashing, crushing or piercing) a weapon does looking at its statistics clicking rignt mouse button on it from your inventory page.
    [*] Do I get saving throws as the main character? Or is that just something enemies get?
    You and all your party get ST exactly as the enemies, every class has its ST table and they get better (so lower) as a toon levels up. you can check them in the page of the game where you also see the stats and level, scroll down the left part and you will find them. Some items can boost your ST i.e. a cloak of protection +1 makes them +1better, some other items boost only some of them and there are spells and potions that temporarily boost them.

    It seems over complicated and actually it is so, but as I told you don't need to become master of it, maybe it will come later if you will get hooked and will play the game over and over, I begun to play many years ago and at that time I had no internet connection, so no aid from forums, wikis or other source and I had only the 4 CDs of the game, a present of a friend, but not the manual, still I could beat the game by trial and error, at first on easy difficulty, then core rules and finally insane, even if I did not know about a lot of things, you will only need to know the very basics of the combat and magic system to beat vanilla and please refrain yourself from using lame tactics like bombing enemies from the fog of war, setting traps on known spawn points of enemies before triggering the spawn and so on, if you do it you will spoil of a lot of fun and will not grow as a good solid player!

    If you have other questions feel free to ask, best regards.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    You may find useful this pinned thread that I created some times ago
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/75332/useful-knowledge-about-the-games-that-other-way-could-be-lost-please-help-by-reporting-links
    In it there is no information, it is a directory from where you can easily find other threads that give detailed information about many technical and not technical aspects of the game, every player is free to suggest an useful thread and I will add it to the directory.
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