I personally like the idea of keeping the ammo stacks around 20-40, but allowing you to buy "of plenty" versions of ammo. That way you have something to work towards, but can get infinite arrows as your martials begin going through arrows way too fast (7/2 or even 9/2 attacks per round is pretty fast).
There's a G3 tweak that adds bags of holding and "of plenty" ammos to the BG I game. I've found it quite enjoyable (it drops an ammo belt in Thunderhammer's smithy, potion bag in Nashkel, gem bag in the Friendly Arm, quiver of plenty in the Carnival, Case of Plenty in Thunderhammer's, etc). I didn't bother to install the unlimited ammo stacking though.
At the very least, I'd like the game to try and replenish the three "quiver" slots with arrows of the same type that exist in your inventory. That would be nice.
Running out of +1 Arrows? Got +1 Arrows in your inventory? Auto-refresh depleted stack!
Yes. Or make a dedicated slot/slots as a separate inventory for arrows, say, stackable to 99/100. So you buy arrows, stick them in those slots and they refill automatically when you run out of quiver arrows.
@LadyRhian Murgatroyd? What does that even mean? Seriously; I've heard it used before (never spelled out) but where did he/she/it/they come from?
On topic, I think the issue here is that the way ammo stacking is currently handled even in TOB creates an inventory issue that negatively impacts gameplay. Even BW was clearly aware of it back in the day since they doubled the stack size. Whatever further action is taken in the same direction can only be good.
"Heavens to Murgatroyd" is a line that an old Hanna Barbara cartoon character used to utter frequently. I'm not sure that it means anything, but most folks in America who were born before 1995 will get the joke, I think.
truly i dont get the inventory issue. Sell loot, replace with arrows, using arrows frees up space which is replaced by new loot which is sold to be replaced by arrows etc etc. It isnt possible to have loot and arrows at the same time, thus no inventory problem. If inventory is full with loot youll have to go to town anyway. And if there is no loot fill it with arrow stacks.
@Kilroy_was_here I always heard it from Snagglepuss from the Yogi Bear show. But apparently, it came from an earlier film called Meet the People, and the character that said it was voiced by Burt Lahr (who had played the Cowardly Lion in "The Wizard of Oz"). It's an exclamation of surprise, and I was using it in a comic, somewhat ironic fashion. Ironic only in that I wasn't surprised at all.
Itll be odd returning to 40 arrow stacks, after years of playing with mods that either made the stacks 99 (my preference) or even removed stacking limits altogether..
I admit I like to hoard stuff, and this means having ALOT of stuff on hands; large stacks help reduce this.
@kilroy_was_here Thanks. Actually Burt Lahr sued the guy who did the voice of Snagglepuss when his portrayal was used for commercial purposes, because he was able to sound so much like Burt Lahr that apparently, people couldn't tell the difference between them...
It would be nice if a M&B principle is used, where stacks are finite during encounters but automatically refill between encounters. It would mean that archers could run out during long battles, but it would also mean that you wouldn't need to carry millions of arrows just to travel through a dungeon or from one town to another.
No, I disagree. I think stacks of 40, as they are in BG2, is perfect. In this case I rarely ran out of arrows, I didnt have too crowded of a inventory and a person keeping stacks of 40 arrows on them is more believable to. It would also render the 'quiver of plenty' useless to, and I was enthralled when I found that item.
Good points. To be perfectly fair, 40 per quiver slot wasn't unmanageable. 20 was manageable if you were very, very careful, 40 reduced the tedious nature of it to be just being aware. Beyond, say, 100, completely reduces it to nothing but a triviality. Yes, logistics while adventuring is important and having to visit the town quite regularly was immersive. That said, having to perform a reload because you forgot those gosh-darn arrows *again* is incredibly annoying. Especially if you only realize that you're out of arrows in a really bad place. Yeah, I know that could add to the realism, but realistically, anybody using a bow in real life isn't going to fail to notice that he's only got 20 arrows left before leaving town and walking for 8 hours. But if there's a number which balances gameplay with immersive realism, it's probably 40 or thereabouts.
And you're right. Infinite stacking makes the Quiver of Plenty completely useless. Might as well remove it. That would be a shame, because the Quivers were a righteous idea. I just wish they could be upgraded passed +2... But that's a separate issue with its own complications.
Edit: I've seen other suggestions for an auto-refull from inventory slots to quiver slots. That makes sense. Realistically, it's unlikely that anyone would switch to melee because he wasn't commanded by the Child of a Deity to pull his ammunition from his knapsack.
Realism should be such a limited consideration, to state the obvious; irl your target will be killed or crippled in some way when stuck by an arrow, whereas in game you are slowly reducing his hitpoints down to zero with successive hits, therefore we need more arrows that you would have irl.
The limit of 40 worked for me just fine. I once tried a mod that let's you stack as many similar arrows in one slot as you want, but that totally ruined the game for me. 20 was very restrictive, but I'd take even that any day over some absurd limit of 100 or so.
Maybe make it a feature of the archer (and only the archer) to have stacks greater than 40 as part of their kit. The ammo limit only really bothered me with that class anyway.
I agree that the limit of 40 wasn't so bad normally. However, for the dedicated archer, it might be problematic. Physically, 40-50 per slot make sense to me. I just don't want the arrows to be too tedious, as the game isn't so much about inventory shifting as other things.
Big frustration is that my weak party members are the arrow jockeys (can't carry anything else). Sometimes, they're too far to 'toss' arrows to the archers in the heat of battle. Yes, I could check arrow inventories after every fight, but that detracts from fun IMO.
If I remember correctly the stacks of arrows/bolts/stones are 20 per tile in BG? I'm playing IWD and the stack size is 40. Is there any reason why they can't increase in BGEE to like 60 or 99? Micro-managing stacks of ammo is my least favourite part of the game, and there would be no difficulty change with larger stacks, just less messing around inside inventories.
Agreed -- but I honestly don't know if it's possible to balance an approach towards realism (smaller ammo stacks) with player convenience (huge ammo stacks).
I recently installed a mod component into BG Tutu that allowed stores to sell higher quantity ammo stacks, with every ammo type available in lots of 120. This meant I never had to refill/reload quivers mid fight or even mid dungeon crawl. Lotsa convenience. But it also felt cheesy.
There's something to be said for the tactical challenge of running out of ammo in the middle of the Gnoll Fortress or the Cloakwood Mines, and having to plan around putting ranged NPCs into melee.
PS: I can't get this it out of my head, but I distinctly remember the ammo stacks in TotSC and BG2 being larger than they were in BG1 (to my relief). But playing Tutu or the GOG version now, they're the same. Is my memory inaccurate or did something change?
If I'm not mistaken ammo stacks in BG2 are 90. Is this correct? Would this then mean that it will be 90 in BG:EE? Am I making all this up in my head due to lack of sleep?
The divide with realism would seem to arise when you look at the amount of arrows needed to bring a target down. Realistically, most human-sized creatures are quite likely to be severely wounded/crippled by an arrow, if not mortally so - but in BG a great many opponents can take several and keep coming. So a realistic supply of arrows doesn't seem to correlate with a realistic number of casualties.
I think its 40 in BG2, I kinda like making space for more gear in inventory, I dunno.. I guess i like to be in the inventory screen:) always carry so much junk that every time i pick up new items i have to get ride of the less valued one. Hmm maybe its because I work in stores... I guess my work affects my virtual life:/
I've been playing unmodded IWD to bide the time and my current party has two archer types. It isn't just inventory space, if you get a fast bow, or one with an extra attack per turn, you burn through ammo at a fairly fast clip. Don't remember this being a problem in BG 1 per say, but I do remember going through ammo stacks in BG 2 as well. I don't want unstackable ammo, but slightly higher stacks would be welcome in my opinion.
40 is more than adequate, but 20 is not. I ended up loading all of my low STR characters with arrows, just to keep up (Kivan goes through them fast!)...
Ranged characters do damage without taking damage in return (at least in theory). They balanced this out by having them lug around stacks of ammo. Hmm... Anyway, a 20 item stack seems too small after playing with stacks of 40. It comes down to the fact that a melee / caster will have room to pick up a valuable item while a ranged character will have to adapt his playstyle (drop some ammo and go melee) or give up the item at some point. Like @Shin said, at low level you can go for a long stream of low rolls and spend half a stack taking down a mob. That severely limits how much time a ranged character can be useful before needing to restock.
If anyone's interested in making one, I support a petition to make stacks of at least 40 (60 would be nice )
The divide with realism would seem to arise when you look at the amount of arrows needed to bring a target down. Realistically, most human-sized creatures are quite likely to be severely wounded/crippled by an arrow, if not mortally so - but in BG a great many opponents can take several and keep coming. So a realistic supply of arrows doesn't seem to correlate with a realistic number of casualties.
Hehe -- down the rabbit hole we go! Pretty soon we're going to wonder how Minsc could suit up, arm himself, and carry extra plate, a helmet, a kite shield, a longbow, 200+ arrows, potions, Boo ... And yet still somehow manage to swing a broadsword effectively.
I was only trying to point out that if you increase the ammo stack too much, then you end up trivializing the entire mechanic. You might as well do away with the quivers and just have all bows auto fire standard ammo, on the assumption that professional archers and adventurers would keep themselves fully equipped while on the road.
There's a line between that kind of situation and making the ammo mechanic add to immersion.
Comments
There's a G3 tweak that adds bags of holding and "of plenty" ammos to the BG I game. I've found it quite enjoyable (it drops an ammo belt in Thunderhammer's smithy, potion bag in Nashkel, gem bag in the Friendly Arm, quiver of plenty in the Carnival, Case of Plenty in Thunderhammer's, etc). I didn't bother to install the unlimited ammo stacking though.
Running out of +1 Arrows? Got +1 Arrows in your inventory? Auto-refresh depleted stack!
On topic, I think the issue here is that the way ammo stacking is currently handled even in TOB creates an inventory issue that negatively impacts gameplay. Even BW was clearly aware of it back in the day since they doubled the stack size. Whatever further action is taken in the same direction can only be good.
http://www.monitorduty.com/2005/08/heavens-to-murgatroyd-i-found-the-definition/
I admit I like to hoard stuff, and this means having ALOT of stuff on hands; large stacks help reduce this.
And you're right. Infinite stacking makes the Quiver of Plenty completely useless. Might as well remove it. That would be a shame, because the Quivers were a righteous idea. I just wish they could be upgraded passed +2... But that's a separate issue with its own complications.
Edit: I've seen other suggestions for an auto-refull from inventory slots to quiver slots. That makes sense. Realistically, it's unlikely that anyone would switch to melee because he wasn't commanded by the Child of a Deity to pull his ammunition from his knapsack.
Big frustration is that my weak party members are the arrow jockeys (can't carry anything else). Sometimes, they're too far to 'toss' arrows to the archers in the heat of battle. Yes, I could check arrow inventories after every fight, but that detracts from fun IMO.
I recently installed a mod component into BG Tutu that allowed stores to sell higher quantity ammo stacks, with every ammo type available in lots of 120. This meant I never had to refill/reload quivers mid fight or even mid dungeon crawl. Lotsa convenience. But it also felt cheesy.
There's something to be said for the tactical challenge of running out of ammo in the middle of the Gnoll Fortress or the Cloakwood Mines, and having to plan around putting ranged NPCs into melee.
PS: I can't get this it out of my head, but I distinctly remember the ammo stacks in TotSC and BG2 being larger than they were in BG1 (to my relief). But playing Tutu or the GOG version now, they're the same. Is my memory inaccurate or did something change?
Hmm maybe its because I work in stores... I guess my work affects my virtual life:/
If anyone's interested in making one, I support a petition to make stacks of at least 40 (60 would be nice
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/5569/request-increase-ammo-stack-size
I was only trying to point out that if you increase the ammo stack too much, then you end up trivializing the entire mechanic. You might as well do away with the quivers and just have all bows auto fire standard ammo, on the assumption that professional archers and adventurers would keep themselves fully equipped while on the road.
There's a line between that kind of situation and making the ammo mechanic add to immersion.