I'm not going to say it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but enemies have a significant penalty to roll against it (a penalty of 4 against saving throws). .
The 'penalty' is actually helping them. +4 to saving throws means they'll have an easier time saving against it. It's still a good ability because fighter types have low save vs spell.
So, i think that the game realizes when you are trying to balance reputation. At reputation 8 I killed Elvenhair Firebeard in his home and lost 2 rep for it putting me at 6 rep (mainly I wanted Robes for Xzar/Edwin and the 2500 xp). Then I figure, "Why not do his quest first, so I can get the reputation, kill him, and try and juggle my rep a bit?" Well, after I get him his book, he gives me the 1 rep putting me at 9. Then I kill him as usual, but this time i lose 3 rep (putting me back at 6 as if I hadnt helped him). So, either you lose more rep for doing bad things when your rep is higher, or the game knew that I was trying to exploit Elvenhair for xp and denied me my new rep.
Your initial reputation is tied to how much you lose when you kill someone. Although currently the game has been taking that to the extreme in some cases (yours seems not likely to be one of these cases).
I'm not a fan because I thought that the Jester's song only lasted for one round. Is this the case? And even if it is, it still seems to be pretty effective in your game.
As for the reputation, that makes sense and explains my situation perfectly. What are the extreme cases, a rep loss of more than 4?
I'm going evil but I'm cheating on reputation because I feel it doesn't work as an interesting/fun mechanic. I've got a script to keep my reputation at 6 which means evil NPCs will be happy but I won't incur the wrath of the Flaming Fist at every turn. This doesn't mean I'm just going to around killing people or taking good options for the sake of rewards because I can, I intend to choose options that most represent the character I'm playing and often that doesn't work out to be the "evil" option. Character is a Berzerker I intend to dual to Druid in BG2 (assuming I find enough stat tomes, the requirements are quite high!). Current party is Khalid, Jaheira, Xsar, Montaron and Neera. Khalid and Jaheira will probably go shortly, and I'll certainly be getting Dorn in. I'd quite like Edwin too but I'm not sure he'll go with Neera and I need room for a cleric (Viconia I assume). I'd quite like Tiax at some point as he's may favourite character too.
Me! Always wanted to play evil through Baldur's Gate, and now with the EE, I definitely will. Party of PC (Sorcerer), Dorn, Imoen (because even evil people have little sisters), Edwin, Viconia, and Neera.
i started as neutral, but i realized i never played evil in bg1 or use evil companions. so now i'm evil. i also really wanted to test M/M romance. i dont know, i have to put myself in the right mindset which is not going so well at times for me. reputation system is still nonsensical. i find dorn to be really interesting for now, although i wish there were some less evil options, since i intend to start neutral or good sorcerer later.
right now PC, dorn, montaron, branwen,xzar,edwin. (viccy and kagain are yet to join i think).
Careful tho, temple donations are VERY pricey now. I have rep 3, and am REALLY regretting it.
I have a reputation of 1 and have murdered several guards already. I didn't realize my rep had plummeted that fast. Guess it's time to start donating my hard earned cash. That Flaming Fist guy really ruined my rep. I'm not even level two yet!
Party NE Cleric Xzar Montaron Edwin Kagain Viconia
Dorn probably won't work as a main healer at all during the saga. He won't get his first spells until level 8 (max level) or 9 (start of BG2) and will cap at level 4 spells. That said, there is a very good evil cleric on a map adjacent to the Friendly Arm Inn should you choose to go looking for her. And she appears again in BG2 (bonus points).
On topic:
I sort of want to play evil but I'm trying to decide on a party. Since we don't know yet what NPCs they're adding to BG2EE, although they've given hints, I'm thinking some type of thief to compliment an evil party. Right now I have an Elven Assassin in mind with Dorn, Viconia, Edwin, and either Xzar/Montaron or Kagain/someone else. I'm just not certain if Dorn and Montaron will be able to hold the front line by themselves, besides the possibility of 20 Con....
My reputation stays at an constant 1. Any other score wouldn't nearly be immersive enough for my Chaotic Evil blackguard lass. No way my mortal fiend PC will donate her honest earned money! >:D
I'm not a fan because I thought that the Jester's song only lasted for one round. Is this the case? And even if it is, it still seems to be pretty effective in your game.
As for the reputation, that makes sense and explains my situation perfectly. What are the extreme cases, a rep loss of more than 4?
Well they would roll every round on it I believe (I could be mistaken), but at the end of the day it is a form of crowd control that takes up no castable spells and that you can get straight off the bat. I'm not saying there aren't more effective methods, I like glitterdust for instance, only that it is useful in some circumstances. Though you don't generally come across enemies that have it, it also bypasses magic resistance.
Playing Evil for the first time! I thought it'd be a good idea with BGEE. So I rolled a Lawful Evil Figther/Illusionist. It has the imba Imp with it so I started killing everyone in Candlekeep and ended up 3/3 with 10k gold. My reputation is 1. Now prices for a healing potion are 1.3k XD! I intend to steal everything with Montaron anyway. I'm curious about how Good characters would behave if recruited though because I'm interested in Yeslick.
Imoen left me. Wouldn't rejoin even after raising rep back up to 12. She has a book and a bandit scalp I want back, but just can't bring myself to kill her . . .
Oh, and I left Jaheira in the map where Dorn joins. So, probably won't be seeing her again either. Khalid and Zxar bit it . . . I'm glad the game has lots of replacement NPCs lol.
I'm not going to say it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but enemies have a significant penalty to roll against it (a penalty of 4 against saving throws). .
The 'penalty' is actually helping them. +4 to saving throws means they'll have an easier time saving against it. It's still a good ability because fighter types have low save vs spell.
Nah its a +4 penalty (in other words enemies have to make a save against it and suffer 4 to their rolls). There was debate about whether or not to make penalties a + or -. For whatever reason in the manual it says -4 and in the game it says +4 but either way it is actually a penalty for the enemy. The problem with the ability is that (especially) fighters at higher levels have higher save scores, so it is less effective. Plus its range is limited and it only lasts for one round at a time. So it has a lot more usability in the beginning of the game and a lesser amount of usability as the game progresses (though there aren't too many high level fighters in the game). For instance I just tested it on two (hostile) guards outside the friendly arm inn, and it caused them confusion 12/15 times (one of the guards got away from me lol).
I'm not a fan because I thought that the Jester's song only lasted for one round. Is this the case? And even if it is, it still seems to be pretty effective in your game.
As for the reputation, that makes sense and explains my situation perfectly. What are the extreme cases, a rep loss of more than 4?
Well they would roll every round on it I believe (I could be mistaken), but at the end of the day it is a form of crowd control that takes up no castable spells and that you can get straight off the bat. I'm not saying there aren't more effective methods, I like glitterdust for instance, only that it is useful in some circumstances. Though you don't generally come across enemies that have it, it also bypasses magic resistance.
Then I will definitely try Jester out (and Edwin uses glitterdust SO MUCH I just love that spell). Perhaps not as CHARNAME in a solo game, but a good chance in a multiplayer game.
Also, I encountered a new (for me) glitch. When using the wolf cloak on Montaron, his AC seems to accumulate bonuses. After a few switches back and forth, he is now at -19 AC in regular halfling form. So, now my evil party has two tanks: Kagain the tank, and Montaron the un-hittable.
I'm not a fan because I thought that the Jester's song only lasted for one round. Is this the case? And even if it is, it still seems to be pretty effective in your game.
As for the reputation, that makes sense and explains my situation perfectly. What are the extreme cases, a rep loss of more than 4?
Well they would roll every round on it I believe (I could be mistaken), but at the end of the day it is a form of crowd control that takes up no castable spells and that you can get straight off the bat. I'm not saying there aren't more effective methods, I like glitterdust for instance, only that it is useful in some circumstances. Though you don't generally come across enemies that have it, it also bypasses magic resistance.
Then I will definitely try Jester out (and Edwin uses glitterdust SO MUCH I just love that spell). Perhaps not as CHARNAME in a solo game, but a good chance in a multiplayer game.
Also, I encountered a new (for me) glitch. When using the wolf cloak on Montaron, his AC seems to accumulate bonuses. After a few switches back and forth, he is now at -19 AC in regular halfling form. So, now my evil party has two tanks: Kagain the tank, and Montaron the un-hittable.
Nah its a +4 penalty (in other words enemies have to make a save against it and suffer 4 to their rolls). There was debate about whether or not to make penalties a + or -. For whatever reason in the manual it says -4 and in the game it says +4 but either way it is actually a penalty for the enemy. The problem with the ability is that (especially) fighters at higher levels have higher save scores, so it is less effective. Plus its range is limited and it only lasts for one round at a time. So it has a lot more usability in the beginning of the game and a lesser amount of usability as the game progresses (though there aren't too many high level fighters in the game). For instance I just tested it on two (hostile) guards outside the friendly arm inn, and it caused them confusion 12/15 times (one of the guards got away from me lol).
Interesting... I recall that in BG2 after some patches the jester song actually improved. Around lvl15 it also slowed the enemies besides the confusion effect and I think the saving throw penalty became smaller. I wonder if its stays the same for all levels now, or will it also improve?
@elminster Definitely not complaining, he was the most fragile of the people I actually send into combat (Kagain, my Half-orc cleric, and Dorn all have lots of HP and AC, while Montaron is stuck with small shield +1 and studded leather +1). I tried taking off his gear, resting, and traveling to see if the issue was solved (it wasn't). It could be because i was trying to hide/move silently right after I turned into a wolf, then killed a hobgoblin, then shifted back (I also tried finding traps as a wolf). So, conjunction with thief skills could be bugging the AC, or it is just a cloak issue. Also, the shapeshifting animation kept occuring on Monty until I rested.
I would show a screenshot of his bugged AC, but I do not know how to put pictures in comments.
EDIT: After resting a second time, his AC went back to his normal 1. At least I don't feel like I'm cheating now (though now even bandits can kick him in the head with that AC).
@elminster Definitely not complaining, he was the most fragile of the people I actually send into combat (Kagain, my Half-orc cleric, and Dorn all have lots of HP and AC, while Montaron is stuck with small shield +1 and studded leather +1). I tried taking off his gear, resting, and traveling to see if the issue was solved (it wasn't). It could be because i was trying to hide/move silently right after I turned into a wolf, then killed a hobgoblin, then shifted back (I also tried finding traps as a wolf). So, conjunction with thief skills could be bugging the AC, or it is just a cloak issue. Also, the shapeshifting animation kept occuring on Monty until I rested.
I would show a screenshot of his bugged AC, but I do not know how to put pictures in comments.
Go into the community support part of the forums, check out the "how to format your posts" thread. Top of page on the first page it is mentioned in the paragraph.
After some more testing, I think I found the error. When I originally tried to shift out of the wolf form, I tried reclicking 'turn into wolf' option, thinking it would revert me (when in actuality, i was supposed to click the 'return to human' in the special abilities tab). When in wolf form, if you repeatedly click the 'turn into wolf', you accumulate a -2 AC bonus each time. So, that's one way to get max AC on every party member I suppose (again, resets after 2 rests for me). EDIT: Here is my screenshot of Montaron with great AC in wolf form. Also, my previous theory is not 100% correct, as it is now being inconsistent with when Monty gets the bonus AC, and how much he gets.
i started as neutral, but i realized i never played evil in bg1 or use evil companions. so now i'm evil. i also really wanted to test M/M romance. i dont know, i have to put myself in the right mindset which is not going so well at times for me.
If it helps, try to think of yourself as a proto-Renegade a la "Mass Effect 3" - you're going to do whatever it takes to stop Sarevok. If that means sacrificing people, so be it; but that doesn't mean you have to be gratuitously evil just for lulz. I kind of doubt that even the most coldhearted bastard in the galaxy shot Mordin in the back on Tuchanka...
I have an evil run through saved but I'm not a fan of the way reputation works and some of the evil options and repercussions.
For instance, in Dorn's first quest in BG2, we break up a wedding, kill someone, then the party agrees to slaughter everyone so nobody tells the city guard. Makes complete sense to my LE monk. But then the party loses three reputation points even though nobody sees the murders. Now the party has to donate money to a church to gain reputation points, another silly concept.
To top it off, I had a game saved at the end of chapter five but accidentally saved over it with the evil play through. Evil indeed.
Kind of a shame since I liked the evil path in the KOTOR series so much.
I've got it all planned out. It's not going to happen for a while - like @Nonnahswriter, I'm waiting on patches before jumping into that bug pit again (plus the slim hope that Cuv will either finish EE-Ascension or hand it off to someone who will) - but I'm going to go for a "rotating cast" kind of feel.
My elf sorcerer will start out with Xzar, Montaron, Dorn, Safana and Viconia. After the Nashkel mines, Safana and the Zhents jump ship (they'll regret that come BG2), and their replacements will be Kagain, Baeloth and Vynd (@Glam_Vrock's drow assassin).
In Athkatla, it'll be standard Team Evil: Dorn, Korgan, Viconia, Edwin and Hexxat. If Vynd is available for BG2 by then, I'll swap him in for Hexxat after finishing her SoA content. Then we sacrifice Korgan in Baator, replace him with Sarevok in ToB, sideline Vynd for Hexxat's ToB quest, get Vynd back... and it's on to Amelyssan with Bodhi on my side.
Done my first ever evil run in BGEE, my cleric/illusionist is now waiting for the BG2EE to download. Kagain is awesome, Monty is awesome, Edwin is...well he is Edwin, Dorn is nice, but he was mostly back-up for Kagain, Xzar is mad, but he relaxed once he got the doll from werewolf island.
Reputation hurts a littlewhen it comes to buying stuff, but I ended up with +200.000 gold at the end. I did donate some every now and then, but then again some priests of wrong religions died gruesome deaths
I usually have Edwin(a) in BG2 runs, sometimes Viconia,but now it is time for 100% nogoodiegoodies
Comments
As for the reputation, that makes sense and explains my situation perfectly. What are the extreme cases, a rep loss of more than 4?
i dont know, i have to put myself in the right mindset which is not going so well at times for me. reputation system is still nonsensical. i find dorn to be really interesting for now, although i wish there were some less evil options, since i intend to start neutral or good sorcerer later.
right now PC, dorn, montaron, branwen,xzar,edwin. (viccy and kagain are yet to join i think).
Party
NE Cleric
Xzar
Montaron
Edwin
Kagain
Viconia
Dorn probably won't work as a main healer at all during the saga. He won't get his first spells until level 8 (max level) or 9 (start of BG2) and will cap at level 4 spells. That said, there is a very good evil cleric on a map adjacent to the Friendly Arm Inn should you choose to go looking for her. And she appears again in BG2 (bonus points).
On topic:
I sort of want to play evil but I'm trying to decide on a party. Since we don't know yet what NPCs they're adding to BG2EE, although they've given hints, I'm thinking some type of thief to compliment an evil party. Right now I have an Elven Assassin in mind with Dorn, Viconia, Edwin, and either Xzar/Montaron or Kagain/someone else. I'm just not certain if Dorn and Montaron will be able to hold the front line by themselves, besides the possibility of 20 Con....
So I rolled a Lawful Evil Figther/Illusionist. It has the imba Imp with it so I started killing everyone in Candlekeep and ended up 3/3 with 10k gold. My reputation is 1. Now prices for a healing potion are 1.3k XD! I intend to steal everything with Montaron anyway.
I'm curious about how Good characters would behave if recruited though because I'm interested in Yeslick.
Oh, and I left Jaheira in the map where Dorn joins. So, probably won't be seeing her again either. Khalid and Zxar bit it . . . I'm glad the game has lots of replacement NPCs lol.
Nah its a +4 penalty (in other words enemies have to make a save against it and suffer 4 to their rolls). There was debate about whether or not to make penalties a + or -. For whatever reason in the manual it says -4 and in the game it says +4 but either way it is actually a penalty for the enemy. The problem with the ability is that (especially) fighters at higher levels have higher save scores, so it is less effective. Plus its range is limited and it only lasts for one round at a time. So it has a lot more usability in the beginning of the game and a lesser amount of usability as the game progresses (though there aren't too many high level fighters in the game). For instance I just tested it on two (hostile) guards outside the friendly arm inn, and it caused them confusion 12/15 times (one of the guards got away from me lol).
Also, I encountered a new (for me) glitch. When using the wolf cloak on Montaron, his AC seems to accumulate bonuses. After a few switches back and forth, he is now at -19 AC in regular halfling form. So, now my evil party has two tanks: Kagain the tank, and Montaron the un-hittable.
I recall that in BG2 after some patches the jester song actually improved. Around lvl15 it also slowed the enemies besides the confusion effect and I think the saving throw penalty became smaller.
I wonder if its stays the same for all levels now, or will it also improve?
Definitely not complaining, he was the most fragile of the people I actually send into combat (Kagain, my Half-orc cleric, and Dorn all have lots of HP and AC, while Montaron is stuck with small shield +1 and studded leather +1). I tried taking off his gear, resting, and traveling to see if the issue was solved (it wasn't). It could be because i was trying to hide/move silently right after I turned into a wolf, then killed a hobgoblin, then shifted back (I also tried finding traps as a wolf). So, conjunction with thief skills could be bugging the AC, or it is just a cloak issue. Also, the shapeshifting animation kept occuring on Monty until I rested.
I would show a screenshot of his bugged AC, but I do not know how to put pictures in comments.
EDIT: After resting a second time, his AC went back to his normal 1. At least I don't feel like I'm cheating now (though now even bandits can kick him in the head with that AC).
EDIT: Here is my screenshot of Montaron with great AC in wolf form. Also, my previous theory is not 100% correct, as it is now being inconsistent with when Monty gets the bonus AC, and how much he gets.
Monty as a Wolf:
For instance, in Dorn's first quest in BG2, we break up a wedding, kill someone, then the party agrees to slaughter everyone so nobody tells the city guard. Makes complete sense to my LE monk. But then the party loses three reputation points even though nobody sees the murders. Now the party has to donate money to a church to gain reputation points, another silly concept.
To top it off, I had a game saved at the end of chapter five but accidentally saved over it with the evil play through. Evil indeed.
Kind of a shame since I liked the evil path in the KOTOR series so much.
"Buttkicking for goodness!"
All he wants to do is tear off limbs with the Slayer without it disappearing afterward. Is that really too much to ask for?
My elf sorcerer will start out with Xzar, Montaron, Dorn, Safana and Viconia. After the Nashkel mines, Safana and the Zhents jump ship (they'll regret that come BG2), and their replacements will be Kagain, Baeloth and Vynd (@Glam_Vrock's drow assassin).
In Athkatla, it'll be standard Team Evil: Dorn, Korgan, Viconia, Edwin and Hexxat. If Vynd is available for BG2 by then, I'll swap him in for Hexxat after finishing her SoA content. Then we sacrifice Korgan in Baator, replace him with Sarevok in ToB, sideline Vynd for Hexxat's ToB quest, get Vynd back... and it's on to Amelyssan with Bodhi on my side.
Kagain is awesome, Monty is awesome, Edwin is...well he is Edwin, Dorn is nice, but he was mostly back-up for Kagain, Xzar is mad, but he relaxed once he got the doll from werewolf island.
Reputation hurts a littlewhen it comes to buying stuff, but I ended up with +200.000 gold at the end.
I did donate some every now and then, but then again some priests of wrong religions died gruesome deaths
I usually have Edwin(a) in BG2 runs, sometimes Viconia,but now it is time for 100% nogoodiegoodies