What spells do liches use that my protections and offense does not work?

Artas1984

I've just passed Kangaxx. I found his demilich form to be way easier to handle than his lich form.

I am really pissed off that i took so much time with him, because nothing worked according to game rules. With Jaheira and Anomen having 6 "death wards" and 6 "chaotic commands" between the two of them, i thought i had guaranteed buffs for all my 6 party members. On top of that, my mage casts "protection from fear" for all party members.

Despite that, Kangaxx puts out a spell, and some of my party members get frightened and some get stunned. What am i missing here?

How come protection from fear does not protect against fear?
How come chaotic commands does not protect from stun?

I'd like to point out that this happens with Kangaxx lich, NOT demilich.

Next question involves Kangaxx's defense mechanics. Can anybody tell me what sequence of spells does he use after he is attacked the first time? I can tell he has got "mantle" or "protection from magical weapons" among other things, but i can not remove it with "breach", because he has got (probably) "spell turning", "spell deflection" and similar stuff. And so it goes - after he buffs himself, i instantly debuff him with "pierce magic", and then my other mage casts "pierce magic" again - i do not see a message that his magic resistance is lowered - why?

After that i try to lower his spell resistance with "lower resistance" - does not work. Breach ain't working too. I try "warding whip" - i can see i am removing something, but i can't tell what.

If he is hard-coded versus level 5 spells - what is left to use? I've read that "pierce magic" and "warding whip" can not remove protective mantles from magic weapons - at this point Kangaxx feels like a cheat mob. What can be done to his protections?

Still though, my biggest concern is why my own protections ain't working against his charms...

Noon

All liches are immune to spell lvl 5 and below, so breach never works. Kangaxx has no magic resistance so lower resistance is useless, but i don't know if the spell pierce text is displayed if the target has 0 mr . Spell shield (i guess is in 1 of the contingencies) will absorb the 1st debuff spell, so your 1st spell pierce will not work anyway.

About fear and stun, i would guess that your protections are dispelled by a dispell spell, mages love to have 1 in their contingency/triggers. But the combat log and your team icons will reveal it.

Try to pause the game as soon as something happens and read the combat log to understand it.

deadinside

Been a while since I played vanilla BG2 (it's all either SCS or Tactics Remix now), but for Liches you are mostly contesting against total immunity to lvl 5 and lower spells, magic resistance, and high level arcane spell protections. They always put up a Spell Shield first along with some spell deflection/absorbing protection, illusion spells and a few combat protection spells (Stone Skin, PfMW, Mantle, and Fire Shield). They like to cast Remove Magic (rather effective because they are usually much higher level than you) and Symbol spells. You will mostly be using magic (lvl 6 and above) to bring them down, or brute force your way with high enchantment weapons wielded by magic immune warriors. Easiest way is to cheese them with 100% MR, scrolls of protection from undead, traps, and/or undead busting weapons.

Stun is one of those effects that goes through most protections. I don't remember if in vanilla BG2 Liches and high level undead have innate fear capabilities, because those usually are not blocked by spells.

Khyron

1 protection from undead scroll, 1 daystar longsword. That's all you need if you solo.

If you're in a group you might need more than 1 protection from undead, as the room isn't big enough to avoid aggro.

Artas1984

deadinside wrote: »

Liches always put up a Spell Shield first along with some spell deflection/absorbing protection, illusion spells

Always? Do you mean all liches do that? Is it true that they apply multiple spells at once? Meaning they cast spell shield, mantle and spell deflection/turning in some sort of spell sequencer at once?

Thank's for the insights. I did not know ALL liches are immune to level 5 and lower spells, i thought Kangaxx only. I wish Baldur's Gate 2 had a message which spell is being removed exactly when i apply "pierce magic".

When it comes to being stunned and frightened - my protections still show up, there is no "remove magic" or "dispell" effect being used by Kangaxx - he casts something that does fear/stun at the same time. However, this happens only with Kangaxx and not with other liches - what do you make of that? He is a particularly nasty lich. When compared to him, Shangalar from the pocket dimension gets destroyed much faster and never causes the same troublesome mind effects (that is when "chaotic commands" is active). After a few "pierce magic" spells even my summoned spiders managed to kill him once while i was busy dealing with the rest of the goons (i thought it funny that a spider managed to kill a lich).

deadinside

All high level spell casters will have some sort of spell contingency that they fire up at the start of combat. Spell Shield is among the most common that gets included. Spell Shield will always be the first protection to be stripped, so don't waste you Pierce Shields if they have one of those up. Once that is down you can attack them with a Khelben's Warding Whip provided they don't have a Spell Tap active (in which case a Pierce Shield will do). But you also need to make sure they don't have an Illusion spell on, since in vanilla you can't target them with spell busters until their illusions are dispelled first (I seem to remember that the latest EE versions changed this). Spell Immunity also complicates things. Spell Immunity: Divination will make it that you won't be able to dispel their illusions at all.

Make sure to read the combat log carefully. It will always say what spells are being used.