What spells do liches use that my protections and offense does not work?

Comments

• Noon Member Posts: 207

  March 22

  All liches are immune to spell lvl 5 and below, so breach never works. Kangaxx has no magic resistance so lower resistance is useless, but i don't know if the spell pierce text is displayed if the target has 0 mr . Spell shield (i guess is in 1 of the contingencies) will absorb the 1st debuff spell, so your 1st spell pierce will not work anyway.
  
  About fear and stun, i would guess that your protections are dispelled by a dispell spell, mages love to have 1 in their contingency/triggers. But the combat log and your team icons will reveal it.
  
  Try to pause the game as soon as something happens and read the combat log to understand it.
  
  

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• deadinside Member Posts: 89

  March 23

  Been a while since I played vanilla BG2 (it's all either SCS or Tactics Remix now), but for Liches you are mostly contesting against total immunity to lvl 5 and lower spells, magic resistance, and high level arcane spell protections. They always put up a Spell Shield first along with some spell deflection/absorbing protection, illusion spells and a few combat protection spells (Stone Skin, PfMW, Mantle, and Fire Shield). They like to cast Remove Magic (rather effective because they are usually much higher level than you) and Symbol spells. You will mostly be using magic (lvl 6 and above) to bring them down, or brute force your way with high enchantment weapons wielded by magic immune warriors. Easiest way is to cheese them with 100% MR, scrolls of protection from undead, traps, and/or undead busting weapons.
  
  Stun is one of those effects that goes through most protections. I don't remember if in vanilla BG2 Liches and high level undead have innate fear capabilities, because those usually are not blocked by spells.

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• Khyron Member Posts: 678

  March 23

  1 protection from undead scroll, 1 daystar longsword. That's all you need if you solo.
  
  If you're in a group you might need more than 1 protection from undead, as the room isn't big enough to avoid aggro.

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• Artas1984 Member Posts: 59

  March 23 edited March 23

  deadinside wrote: »

  Liches always put up a Spell Shield first along with some spell deflection/absorbing protection, illusion spells

  
  Always? Do you mean all liches do that? Is it true that they apply multiple spells at once? Meaning they cast spell shield, mantle and spell deflection/turning in some sort of spell sequencer at once?
  
  Thank's for the insights. I did not know ALL liches are immune to level 5 and lower spells, i thought Kangaxx only. I wish Baldur's Gate 2 had a message which spell is being removed exactly when i apply "pierce magic".
  
  When it comes to being stunned and frightened - my protections still show up, there is no "remove magic" or "dispell" effect being used by Kangaxx - he casts something that does fear/stun at the same time. However, this happens only with Kangaxx and not with other liches - what do you make of that? He is a particularly nasty lich. When compared to him, Shangalar from the pocket dimension gets destroyed much faster and never causes the same troublesome mind effects (that is when "chaotic commands" is active). After a few "pierce magic" spells even my summoned spiders managed to kill him once while i was busy dealing with the rest of the goons (i thought it funny that a spider managed to kill a lich).
  
  
  

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• deadinside Member Posts: 89

  March 23 edited March 23

  All high level spell casters will have some sort of spell contingency that they fire up at the start of combat. Spell Shield is among the most common that gets included. Spell Shield will always be the first protection to be stripped, so don't waste you Pierce Shields if they have one of those up. Once that is down you can attack them with a Khelben's Warding Whip provided they don't have a Spell Tap active (in which case a Pierce Shield will do). But you also need to make sure they don't have an Illusion spell on, since in vanilla you can't target them with spell busters until their illusions are dispelled first (I seem to remember that the latest EE versions changed this). Spell Immunity also complicates things. Spell Immunity: Divination will make it that you won't be able to dispel their illusions at all.
  
  Make sure to read the combat log carefully. It will always say what spells are being used.

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• jmerry Member Posts: 4,213

  April 5

  deadinside wrote: »

  Liches you are mostly contesting against total immunity to lvl 5 and lower spells, magic resistance, and high level arcane spell protections.

  Not magic resistance. Liches generally don't have MR.
  
  Standard lich immunities: cold, electricity, sleep, polymorph, hold/paralysis, disintegrate, slay, non-magical weapons, spells of level 1-5. Plus standard undead immunities on top of that. Liches also generally see through invisibility.
  Lich form Kangaxx, in addition to the standard lich and undead immunities, is immune to instant death, death by damage, and anything that would stop his script from running - standard "must get in a word before dying" stuff. Plus he's wearing the Ring of Gaxx for 10% MR, immunity to disease, and 2 HP/round regeneration.
  
  Unmodded, lich form Kangaxx opens with Stone Skin, PFMW, and Spell Trap. You can't Breach that PFMW, so he's completely immune to weapons for the first four rounds unless you can win the level check on a dispel - and he's level 27.
  Chain Contingency: Spell Turning + Mislead, on losing his stoneskins and taking damage.
  Contingency: PFMW, on losing his stoneskins and taking damage.
  Spell Trigger: True Sight + Remove Magic + Death Spell. Will use on the nearest enemy if no higher-priority spell is available.
  Kangaxx also has one instance of Spell Turning memorized, which he will use if he has no bounce effects or immunities to anything ... so, never.
  There's an instance of Fire Shield (Red), which will be cast if he's running low on spells.
  He has a Vocalize memorized, and will use it if silenced.
  Everything else is offensive spells, dependent on memorization. And he has a lot memorized.
  
  The fear and stun you encountered ... Kangaxx has instances of Symbol, Fear and Symbol, Stun memorized. And he dispelled your defenses with his Spell Trigger. There's nothing that does both at the same time, but if you initially dodged one and triggered it later...

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• shevy123456 Member Posts: 479

  April 19 edited April 19

  > he casts something that does fear/stun at the same time
  
  I found the easiest way here is to have a berserker. I do this either with the main char or Korgan. Daystay also works very well from my experience. Sometims I use fodder units too, but the key for me is usually a strong melee character with an appropriate weapon.
  
  I actually found other party members to not be too helpful and get imprisoned more likely when they are involved in the fight. It may also depend on whether you use mods; I kind of use many mods, simply because they extend the gameplay. Tactics Remix changes the fight there quite a bit. I often split the fight between Kangaxx in lich form and demilich, so first I kill the lich, then go out, rest, then go against the demilich; for some reason he then spawns close to the entrance, which is quite useful as I often have Kangaxx + the main character as berserker, so I can go in and whack him. If I recall correctly there may be weapons that can also help destroy undead, I think Dusk has one sword and there may be another weapon (aside from Daystar but I think Daystar also works well). Sometims having scrolls of protection from undead can also help a lot. It may take a little testing and strategy work to beat Kangaxx.
  
  > However, this happens only with Kangaxx and not with other liches - what do you make of that?
  
  With Tactics Remix, I think other liches may also try more varied spell combinations. Stun can be quite annoying but fear can often be somewhat easily countered; I usually use the NPC Dusk but there are some other items that can also remove fear. But I think the simplest strategy is to mega-buff Korgan or similar fighters, and have appropriate weapons. In the vanilla game, I think you can buy some +4 rhys staff or something like that somewhat early on if you know how to make some money, though I don't recall if that helped against the demilich form. You could also combine vanilla with just a few mods, even the non-overpowered mods can be quite helpful. For instance the potion mod I mostly use to sell potions for extra money (well, weapons oils).

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