Tarrasque chances in BG/BG2

kamuizin

Well ppl, as the topic have-infravision-actually-do-something was turning in a tarrasque chances of implement, i decided to bring this discussion to a new topic, so we don't spam the objective of the old topic.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/823/have-infravision-actually-do-something#latest"

The problem with tarrasque is that you can't just kill him as you normally would... if i remember correctly, in order to kill him in AD&D, first you had to leave him with less than -10 hit points, then you had to use a wish to prevent him from ressurecting, since tarrasque has an absurd health regeneration... there could be another things involved, but i don't remember them

but in my opinion, it would be awesome! i just don't know how they could fit him in the game...

Imprisonment to him, so. Maybe destruction spell (Clr 7, death 7, repose 7) as it makes the user consume the body of the killed being (really don't want to know what would happen to someone that consumes tarrasque's remains), no specific immunity to death spells on tarrasque data base until now.

If that don't work, maybe a plot kill, where the main char make a deal with a deity to use Hand of Death divine ability on tarrasque when his life is low.

Even being a huge problem (in all senses) i feel that we faced so many ubber things in Baldur's Gate/BG2 that i don't think tarrasque would be so much to the main char (Tons of elder dragons, demi-lichs, demogorgon avatar, the actual mistress of murder with some limits on the fight thanks to "Solar").

Shareazu

well, i agree that maybe a plot kill would be more appropriate... maybe you could make him 'unconscious' (like what happens with trolls once you reduce them to 0 hit points), than use a (true) wish or an especific item to end him once and for all...


you'd have to face him on ToB, though! tarrasque is way too legendary and powerful to be defeated before you and your party members achieve epic levels!

and i believe it would have to be some kind of optional, 'secret game boss' kind of thing... full of details and requirements. the whole infravision thing would be nice, since most people consider it a useless spell and stuff.

Daedalus87m

and after you manage to harm it (it can do up to 150+ dmg in a single round ^^), you can bring it's belly to the blacksmith and rest 2 years to get a +5 shield or four

kamuizin

I don't see Tarrasque as a impossbile fight, maybe i'm being just naive, but for anyone that care, is tarrasque stronger than demogorgon avatar by P&P settings? I believe that the main question about tarrasque is to adapt his presence to bhaalspawn history.

But i heard that no new skin can be added to the EEs, if that's entirely true with no exceptions let's just forget this topic cos i would prefer no tarrasque than a tarrasque using a Dragon skin or Pit Lord/Ravager skin.

Shareazu

yeah, i agree... i hope that rumor ain't true!

but how can no new skin be added? ain't much sense, since this is an enhanced edition and all...

Dee

Demogorgon is a Demon Prince, but he can be killed. Or at least, banished back to the Abyss.

The Tarrasque, on the other hand, can only be killed by (literally) making a wish and hoping for the best. And that's only after bringing him to the brink of death, which for the Tarrasque is kind of like destroying a planet.

The Tarrasque is designed for level 20 characters - so in theory, you could beat the Tarrasque in ToB. But in practice, I wouldn't want to try it.

It might be neat to have a percentile die rolled every time you rest, labeled "Tarrasque check: 15". You know - just to keep players on their toes.

kamuizin

Not only the level 20 fact, but ToB is an overpowered game, every character probally only use epic items in each part of his body, so i really think that the party has more than firepower enough to face an tarrasque.

NWN_babaYaga

I dont want to battle against a terrasque... such a overpowered being.... instead a purple worm?

mch202

I dont want to battle against a terrasque... such a overpowered being.... instead a purple worm?

@NWN_babaYaga

terrasque is a piece of cake... I can kill it instantly ( by pressing Ctrl+Y )

Tanthalas

They should totally add a Tarrasque to the game and make it the only thing immune to Ctrl+Y.

geselle

Could you guys enlighten me about the Tarrasque? I mean i grew up playing Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 Icewind Dale and NWN, but I never played D&D pen and paper.

Coriander

@geselle It's a 50' creature that moves very fast, has a lot of attacks, lots of HP, regenerates, and can only be killed by taking it to negative hit points and using a wish.

geselle

@Coriander 50' ? Feet? Sorry I'm german, we have the metric system, so it should be around 15 meters?
This beast sounds beast, and you have to get a wish to finish it off? Amazing.

Coriander

@geselle I'm Canadian and we also use the metric system. Sort of. Millimeter->Centimeter->Inch->Foot->Meter. And we use pounds. And distance is measured in time.

kamuizin

A wish is the know way to deal with him (and the wish is not to kill him, but to teleport him to another place), however i didn't saw any immunity on tarrasque settings to imprisonment and i believe divine abilities (if a deity choste to direct intervent) could put an end in a tarrasque.

Shareazu

i dunno.. some say that the tarrasque is the creation of evil, ancient gods...

sarevok57

in 3rd edition they say the tarrasque is 70 feet long ( 20 meters or so?) and has 840 hp, that would have more HP than any creature you ever fight against in bg II ( with wraith sarevok having the most at 600 hp, and the ravager at 2nd place with 546 or so) they could make it a tough ToB monster, just give it huge regeneration like it is suppose to have and give it some big damage resistance, plus it has that reflective carapace doesnt it? in ToB they made water elemntals epic when they are only supposed to be mediocre, so they can beef up that tarrasque if need be fore ToB or what they could do is what they did with the big metal unit, maybe they should make it so that you need the big metal unti to get through a "gateway" that leads to the tarrasque mayhaps? that would be pretty neat

Cuv

The legendary tarrasque, for there is fortunately only one known to exist, is the most dreaded monster native to the Prime Material plane. The creature is a scaly biped with two horns on its head, a lashing tail, and a reflective carapace...

....Slaying of the tarrasque is said to be possible only if the monster is reduced to -30 or fewer hit points and a wish is then used. Otherwise, even the slightest piece of the tarrasque can regenerate and restore the monster completely.

sarevok57

easily doable in ToB since the wish spell actually exists

kamuizin

@Cuv, in fact there's more than one tarrasque, at least that's what i read in the wikis and articles of D&D spread on the internet. I read too, that the wish spell is used to teleport tarrasque and not kill him, as he's immortal (maybe the nameless one is a tarrasque XD... kidding here).

But a direct kill is too straight approach, many things can be done, as imprisonment, demon (Lord) pact or a deal with a deity, imprison him with demogorgon avatar inside the vigil keep (and anyone that say vigil keep can't hold tarrasque must be joking, after all the place was build with the true power of helm to imprision the most powerfull demon prince).

There's so much ways to deal with this that not necessary ask for a battle kill...

I, at least, would try to change his patch to send him to Tethyr capital (i really hate them for the ambush on the oasis ^^)!

Drugar

FYI;
The official 3.5 stats for the Tararsque: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm
The basics haven't changed much from 2nd Edition, 858hp is still a lot and 30% chance to reflect spells is still pretty dangerous.
Also, a cooler picture of it; http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/4ll_20120220.jpg

As you can see, it might be too large to fit on the screen...

Cuv

@kamuizin Hehe, it would need to keep in line with 2nd edition or 2.5 for the game. The rules are always changing, but as of 2nd edition there was only one known. Just saying. I also think it would be too big to fit on the screen.

There was some talk during the production of ToB that a Tarrasque encounter was being thought of in the area surrounding Watcher's Keep... but that didnt happen. Unfortunately the Black Isle boards are gone.

Shareazu

another problem is that tarrasque's battle tend to be dynamic, with him trying to swallow his enemies and stuff... you can't mimic that kind of action in BG very well, so he'd just use his normal, melee attacks.

as for his size, guess they could either reduce it, or just leave it be.... afterall, you do fight dragons, and they're as big as tarrasque!

kamuizin

@Shareazu, Dragons should fly, and try to use breath attacks from the air too, we can't have everything i guess, but simulate a swallow attack would not be hard, would be a permanent death attack i believe, with a % of chance or saving trow, if the % is hit or the save fails, the target is swallowed (just need to use the desintegrate code, so we can simulate the loss of the equipment, too).

smeagolheart

They should totally add a Tarrasque to the game and make it the only thing immune to Ctrl+Y.

Ctrl-Y should heal it.

Shareazu

@Shareazu, Dragons should fly, and try to use breath attacks from the air too, we can't have everything i guess, but simulate a swallow attack would not be hard, would be a permanent death attack i believe, with a % of chance or saving trow, if the % is hit or the save fails, the target is swallowed (just need to use the desintegrate code, so we can simulate the loss of the equipment, too).

yes, but at least dragons can use spells and other skills (dragon's breath, use his wings, etc)... tarrasque, on the other hand, is limited to normal attacks, i think.

kamuizin

Well if we can't simulate all his attacks, just set his attacks to 4 or 5 per round. That's good to me. Some spells, HLAs and configurations can simulate perfectly the tarrasque special abilities in the engine.


Augmented Critical - Tarrasque's bite make critical hit in a roll of 18-20, dealing 3x more dmg.

In BG: set the frist of his attacks (4 or 5) at each round to act as a backstab IF the requered conditions are meet (18-20 on the hit roll), otherwise the attack will act as a normal one.


Frightful Presence - The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking.

In BG: Make tarrasque set a cloak of fear spell as a permanent contingency, triggering it at every round (every 2 rounds, 3, 4, 5... free to chose here).


Improved Grab - To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. If hit he can attempt to grapple the enemy.

In BG: As we set in this post that the bite attack is the frist attack of the round (in the Augumented Critical), each time tarrasque sucefully hit someone with his bite attack, the opponent shoud save versus paralize (with a penality of -x/0 on the save rolls) or be stucked on the place by a grapple effect of the bite attack (what can be simulated using the effects of entangle druid spell by just hiding the visual effects of the spell, both tarrasque and the victim must be hold on their position and always in melee distance).
This ability don't stop of act even if someone is already hold in tarrasque's mouth in the subsequent rounds, but the chances of make an Improved Grab are only 1 per round (and only roll on the frist attack set of the round).


Swallow Whole - The tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check.

In BG: Each time a Improved Grab is sucefull, the AI setting in the next turn Trigger this ability.
Under the effects of the Swallow Whole ability, the opponent takes 2d8+8 points of crushing damage plus 2d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the tarrasque’s digestive juices. During the effects of this ability the tarrasque armor should be set to -5 for that character chance of hit (or -5 for everyone if the engine don't allow this).
Only by dealing 50 points of dmg the character can be free from the grapple (but the damage MUST be directly done by that character), resistances to magic and damage shoud be reduced to the character that is grappled (after all he's inside Tarrasque's mouth) or generally reduced if the engine don't permit a selective reduction of damage from a fix source.


Rush - Once per minute, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can move at a speed of 150 feet.

In BG: This shoud be used every time the Main Char's party try to stay out of a melee position of the tarrasque, this ability can be simulated by an improved haste spell (or just haste, customer choice here).


Carapace - The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells.

In BG: Tarrasque is immune to a x number of spells. Each time one of those spells are used, a % script roll a 30% chance of that magic to be reflected as if tarrasque was under the effects of Spell Turning.


Regeneration - No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque.
In BG: Just set his script as a troll (a huge on in fact XD). But when in the Near Death unconscious status, he must be immune to fire, acid and level drain (BG actual infinite engine in fact kill trolls in unconscious near death status with level drain, i discovered this with valen mod) or to every form of damage just to be sure.



Sorry for the long post, and if i'm wrong in anything here, please, lemme know it ppl.

caruga

Here you go: The Tarrasque!

smeagolheart

somebody must have wished it dead already

NWN_babaYaga

Thats not what a dead terrasque looks like in my mind

caruga

Thats not what a dead terrasque looks like in my mind

It was big-boned.