For those of you who wonder if it is possible to kill the Tarrasque in ToB: Just take your ToB characters + the stats of the Tarrasque + your favorite dice and roll out the fight. Out of respect for the creature I'd put my money on the Tarrasque, but it could well be possible.
I guess Tarrasque would be a fun challenge, still I don't know if it fits well in BG atmosphere. Anyway it doesn't have to be this monster, but there's still a place for super powerful enemies.
In my view Baldur's Gate ToB is the only plataform D&D game that would support a fair fight with tarrasque, if not done in ToB, where everyone already passed to the superior classes, no other game will be able to use tarrasque.
If anyone think tarrasque is too much for the party make a plot fight, put other allies with the party to distract and die to tarrasque. It's a suggestion, but i will give a better sugestion next:
I personally think that the Cyric challenge in pocket plane would make more sense if he TRULY try to abuse in his understand of rule bend.
Trow a tarrasque on main char instead 3 stupid weak thieves, that would be more like him, i never understand why the most motherfucker bitch god of the phanteon didn't make something to serious fuck the mortal that's literally a threat to one of his portfolios (and unfortunally for him, based on the original content, is under AO protection until the end of the Bhaalspaws struggles).
If he trow the tarrasque on the party on a timed battle, like a 5 min duration battle, that would be nice. After 5 minutes AO would take notice that Cyric was being a bitch and bending his rules, explode/banish the tarrasque and even give the party a bonus if they manage to incapacitate the beast (and if someone try to tell AO can't kill tarrasque... i'm going to punch this person).
But if this gonna hit the oficial content block or not is beiond me.
Ps: Tarrasque P&P stats are even lower than Great Wyrm ancient Dragons. What make Tarrasque special are not his status but his unique abilities (he has a little greater physical stats, but lower INT, WIS, CHA).
i bet my ToB party could easily whipe the tarrasque, his equivilent AC is only -15 for a level 40 fighter thats nothing, so i need 2s MAYBE 3s to hit this fool? plus the damage the tarrasque does is pitiful compared to harder bosses dishin out 60-80 damage a hit ( even on the hardest difficulty the tarrasque probally still wouldnt be doing that much damage), to me he is going to be pretty much an 800+ hp ravager, but i do agree with @kamuizin fighting a tarrasque instead of 3 crappy thieves in the cyric challenge would be soooo much better, and if that isnt possibible than at least make those thieves have -15 or so AC and 250 HP so that they actually live longer than 5 rounds or so, very unimpressive, ToB is supposed to be hard, SoA is the warm up and ToB should wreck you in difficulty so i say CRANK those fights, CRANK 'em
As far as I know, BG:EE is still based on 2nd edition rules. That means the stats for the Tarrasque are 300hp/70HD THAC0 -5 AC -3 6 attacks dealing 1-12/1-12/2-24/5-50/1-10/1-10 (That is an average of almost 65hp per round and a max of 118hp), a bit that severs a limb on a roll of 18 or higher and a nice trample attack each turn doing 4d10 damage to everything in its path. It has a carapace that can reflect bolts and rays (such as cone of cold, and magic missile) back at the caster (1 in 6 chance) and otherwise deflects the attack. It also has a fear aura (succesful save needed) and is immune to all heat and fire.
(source: AD&D 2nd edition Monstrous Manual)
I don't remember the stats of my characters in ToB exactly, but I can't imagine this guy being a total walk in the park. Maybe they shouldn't introduce him completely at the end of ToB though... a level 40ish party might not have that much trouble with this guy.
edit: You have to bring the Tarrasque down to -30hp and make/cast a wish to kill him.
@sarevok57 while i agreed with you (cos in fact we share the same vision) i have to agree to other posts in this thread about tarrasque. The power of tarrasque in fact don't come of his status, but abilities in fact. He's immortal by nature (literally) and can instantly swallow a party member during the fight.
By other side, the main question ppl don't get in ToB that you see clearly (as i do, i think) is that in ToB 850 life points can be raped in a single round by the party. 2 or 3 wariors with greater wirlwind skill activated can rape tarrasque pretty quickly.
Code a tarrasque in ToB can be hard maybe, but if done right will be worth the trouble to make it, a LOT worth.
I think there is a few more things we should take into account.
1. If I'm not mistaken the Tarrasque was designed for 2nd edition rules, before the 'DM Option:High level campains' rule book. That means the Tarrasque was designed for a world in which level 20 was the highest player level (or at least there were no extra special abilities above level 20). So, it would in myth and legend be pitted against level 20ish characters at best. A group of 6 would not be able to kill it without the help of a lot more high level NPC. So, either they should upgrade the Tarrasque's stats to give the same relative threat to a group of 40 level characters as it would give to a group of 20 level characters back in the day (which would render it unkillable by a group of 6), or they should make the encounter a lot more complex by giving the Tarrasque some extra healing (through a group of priests or a device or whatever) or through some other means.
2. The Tarrasque doesn't just stand for a creature with some stats. It stands for a huge threat to everyone who lives in the region where the creature lives. It is a fierce and incredibly dangerous creature that acts on instinct. Implementing a creature like that should have to be done with the legend in mind, not only the stats. If I were to use a Tarrasque in a campaign it would be the end of a long plot line, not a single encounter. So if someone were to summon it, it would be through a long process that the players would try to stop (they would ultimately fail). But I'd rather introduce it by having it wreak havoc on the countryside as that would be more in character.
In short: The Tarrasque should not be just some powerful enemy, it should be one of the most powerful enemies one can encounter and it should be given the respect it deserves, not only in how the encounter with him plays out, but also in how he's introduced.
@iLex kind of what they did with demogorgon, they should make some big quest thingy ma-boby and put the tarrasque at the end, and they could easily give the tarrasque stats that could match level 30 or 40 characters, look at demogorgon in 3rd edition he is only challenge rating 30 i believe, which means potentially you could have a level 22 team take him down, but with the harder patch in ToB, being around level 30 is a much wiser choice, and everyone else is right that the tarrasque isnt just about stats and such, its about his abilities and things, but in the bg world, he probally wouldnt be able to use some of them like shallow whole for example, that would require so much engine tinkering to make that work, but just the fact of seeing one in ToB that would be pretty neat, or maybe even in SoA if its only meant to be for level 20 characters
@sarevok57 Well, luckily in 2nd edition rules the Tarrasque cannot swallow whole
All I care about though is that creatures that were meant to be impressive will be impressive in the game too. I almost cried when I saw what Skyrim did to the mighty dragons... I don't ever want to see something like that again...
The tarrasque is quite a beast. I doubt that this would ever be implemented, but I'm always interested in a new challenge, which a tarrasque would certainly provide. I could be wrong about this, but if I recall correctly, according to the lore, there was only one of these in existence... Anyway, he would be quite hard to take down, and it would require a new option when casting the wish spell once you have him down to -30hp or beyond. As far as him being too easy for a group of level 40 characters, just put him nearer the beginning of ToB. Either way, would definitely not be a walk in the park, but it does seem that a high level party would have at least a chance.
I still think it's silly that, that would completely disqualify the possibility of the Tarrasque. I mean, what they were saying was they didn't want any new special effects to outshine the old, right? Well that's kind of what the Tarrasque would do ANYWAYS. He's just the freaking TARRASQUE! If he was better looking graphic wise than the other players or monsters, I'm not sure if people would really notice all that badly, seeing as how he'd have to be a boss fight. Obviously we'd have to be using AD&D rules for the Tarrasque here, as that is what BG is using.
Personally I like the suggestion of the Big Metal Unit being the key to unlocking the Tarrasque fight, as he is essentially the most epic monster in all of D&D. The wish spell being altered so that in the boss fight against him, it is an automatic option once he's down, should be pretty easy to implement. I think I have another idea as to how this boss fight could be initiated though... do you guys remember the idol of Kozah? An how if you bring it and the ancient armor to Ulcaster you get the vampiric sword? What if Kozah was the ancient god that spawned the Tarrasque, ehhh? You could have it be that the vampiric sword is the key to the unlocking the Tarrasque battle.
Of course that sort or reminds me of the demon cultists after durlag's tower, and the soul dagger... but you could still make it even better than that ^_^
"In light of the above, it doesn't make much sense to request new monsters, as they won't have distinctive animations to go (and I personally believe Baldur's Gate already has enough monsters that share the same animation or a recolored version of the same animation)."
If true maybe a negotiation for a tarrasque DLC would be viable later, but i'm starting to fail in see this improvments as a EE and not a super tweak mod... still, let's see what happens...
@sarevok57 It would really have to be a carry over, as there is really no way you can possibly face the Torrasque at the low levels you are in the first game. Perhaps put it with the where you'd find the Golden Pantaloons in Irenicus' dungeon, if you actually bothered to go get them in the first game.
@iLex A man can dream though, right? (Yeah, I know they said they won't... but maybe since BGEE2 comes out later, they might have time to draw up the animations...)
Probally exist a long time to pass until BG2 with tob in EE comes to light. Until then many things maybe change, let's wait cos anyway Tarrasque implemention is not meant to BG+ToSC.
As much as I like Demogorgon, he is nothing compared to a Tarrasque. Gods avoid the Tarrasque, similar to how Greek Gods avoided unleashing the Kraken. It is an uncontrollable monster that destroys Era's not civilizations. While the true God of Murder would love to release such a thing, other Gods would actually have to get involved to stop the Tarrasque from going too far. The hero of BG wouldn't have a chance in hell, actually he would have a better chance fighting all of hell than beating a Tarrasque.
Eh, in P&P my group we mainly play D&D 3.5/Pathfinder. While I understand it's not 2e the Tarrasque is really not thaaaat bad. Before I get flamed here, in P&P 3.5 with all the silly character combos that are possible, killing a Tarrasque really ain't no big thing. However, if you were to bring the ruleset down to just the core, then the Tarrasque is a beast and is pretty mean. Either way, I would like to see a Tarrasque fight in this game where he stomps your stuff in over and over and over!
^That is the problem with the new rules, in all of the great stories told by books, no one has evey EASILY beat a Tarrasque. Actually most in the realm except Gods even know what the creature is, it is a shame if rules from 3.5E have reduced him done below even low Gods. Helm had trouble imprisoning Demogorgon, as Tarrasque would involve a lot more than one God.
@wariisop The thing is, with 3.x the power creep got waaaay out of control with the amount of supplemental rules that kept coming out. I enjoy playing 3.x/pathfinder over 4.0 (really 4.0 is garbage IMO) but playing with all of the books really makes the material that came out at the beginning almost trivial. In 3.5 there is absolutly no reason to go 20 levels of figher. It's worthless, you WILL prestige class if you want to keep up with the power creep. Now if you play pure Pathfinder, they fixed alot of that. However, even in pathfinder as they come out with new books the power creep is slowly working it's way into the game. It's the one thing I don't like about D&D P&P is that it feels like in order for them to sell books, they must introduce more rules and better classes.
@wariisop in which base you say that gods avoid tarrasque? Is this just an analogy with the kraken lore of ancient greece? I never heard anything "gods fear tarrasque" in D&D, but i'm not a master of D&D lore so i may be easly just uninformed. But it's not a Lady of Pain here, it's just a monster.
The Tarrasque Wiki give few info to add what we already know of him, and make a quote of tarrasque being classified as an alien form of life in the spelljammer series, being original from the planet Falx. If this is to be believed or not i can't affirm.
@kamuizin I don't believe the gods fear a Tarrasque, really if you look at the abilities of dieties you will see that a Divine rank 1 god would own a Tarrasque. Of course, I'm again using D&D 3.5 rules here. Anyways below is the stat block for the tarrasque Tarrasque: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm While this looks big, mean and super tough, I can easily stat out a Divine Rank 1 diety that would own the face off of a Tarrasque.
Comments
(No, not the Tarrasque, look at those fangs, cleeearly something else, mmmmhm)
Out of respect for the creature I'd put my money on the Tarrasque, but it could well be possible.
If anyone think tarrasque is too much for the party make a plot fight, put other allies with the party to distract and die to tarrasque. It's a suggestion, but i will give a better sugestion next:
I personally think that the Cyric challenge in pocket plane would make more sense if he TRULY try to abuse in his understand of rule bend.
Trow a tarrasque on main char instead 3 stupid weak thieves, that would be more like him, i never understand why the most motherfucker bitch god of the phanteon didn't make something to serious fuck the mortal that's literally a threat to one of his portfolios (and unfortunally for him, based on the original content, is under AO protection until the end of the Bhaalspaws struggles).
If he trow the tarrasque on the party on a timed battle, like a 5 min duration battle, that would be nice. After 5 minutes AO would take notice that Cyric was being a bitch and bending his rules, explode/banish the tarrasque and even give the party a bonus if they manage to incapacitate the beast (and if someone try to tell AO can't kill tarrasque... i'm going to punch this person).
But if this gonna hit the oficial content block or not is beiond me.
Ps: Tarrasque P&P stats are even lower than Great Wyrm ancient Dragons. What make Tarrasque special are not his status but his unique abilities (he has a little greater physical stats, but lower INT, WIS, CHA).
Source:
Tarrasque - http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm
Great Wyrm Ancient Dragons - http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm (here you find dragons in general, just search for the red dragon table to see the truth).
That means the stats for the Tarrasque are
300hp/70HD
THAC0 -5
AC -3
6 attacks dealing 1-12/1-12/2-24/5-50/1-10/1-10 (That is an average of almost 65hp per round and a max of 118hp), a bit that severs a limb on a roll of 18 or higher and a nice trample attack each turn doing 4d10 damage to everything in its path.
It has a carapace that can reflect bolts and rays (such as cone of cold, and magic missile) back at the caster (1 in 6 chance) and otherwise deflects the attack.
It also has a fear aura (succesful save needed) and is immune to all heat and fire.
(source: AD&D 2nd edition Monstrous Manual)
I don't remember the stats of my characters in ToB exactly, but I can't imagine this guy being a total walk in the park. Maybe they shouldn't introduce him completely at the end of ToB though... a level 40ish party might not have that much trouble with this guy.
edit: You have to bring the Tarrasque down to -30hp and make/cast a wish to kill him.
By other side, the main question ppl don't get in ToB that you see clearly (as i do, i think) is that in ToB 850 life points can be raped in a single round by the party. 2 or 3 wariors with greater wirlwind skill activated can rape tarrasque pretty quickly.
Code a tarrasque in ToB can be hard maybe, but if done right will be worth the trouble to make it, a LOT worth.
1. If I'm not mistaken the Tarrasque was designed for 2nd edition rules, before the 'DM Option:High level campains' rule book. That means the Tarrasque was designed for a world in which level 20 was the highest player level (or at least there were no extra special abilities above level 20). So, it would in myth and legend be pitted against level 20ish characters at best. A group of 6 would not be able to kill it without the help of a lot more high level NPC.
So, either they should upgrade the Tarrasque's stats to give the same relative threat to a group of 40 level characters as it would give to a group of 20 level characters back in the day (which would render it unkillable by a group of 6), or they should make the encounter a lot more complex by giving the Tarrasque some extra healing (through a group of priests or a device or whatever) or through some other means.
2. The Tarrasque doesn't just stand for a creature with some stats. It stands for a huge threat to everyone who lives in the region where the creature lives. It is a fierce and incredibly dangerous creature that acts on instinct.
Implementing a creature like that should have to be done with the legend in mind, not only the stats.
If I were to use a Tarrasque in a campaign it would be the end of a long plot line, not a single encounter. So if someone were to summon it, it would be through a long process that the players would try to stop (they would ultimately fail). But I'd rather introduce it by having it wreak havoc on the countryside as that would be more in character.
In short: The Tarrasque should not be just some powerful enemy, it should be one of the most powerful enemies one can encounter and it should be given the respect it deserves, not only in how the encounter with him plays out, but also in how he's introduced.
All I care about though is that creatures that were meant to be impressive will be impressive in the game too.
I almost cried when I saw what Skyrim did to the mighty dragons... I don't ever want to see something like that again...
edit: Well... Tarrasque is off the table I guess: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1588/bgee-please-read-list-of-things-that-cant-be-done/p1
Personally I like the suggestion of the Big Metal Unit being the key to unlocking the Tarrasque fight, as he is essentially the most epic monster in all of D&D. The wish spell being altered so that in the boss fight against him, it is an automatic option once he's down, should be pretty easy to implement. I think I have another idea as to how this boss fight could be initiated though... do you guys remember the idol of Kozah? An how if you bring it and the ancient armor to Ulcaster you get the vampiric sword? What if Kozah was the ancient god that spawned the Tarrasque, ehhh? You could have it be that the vampiric sword is the key to the unlocking the Tarrasque battle.
Of course that sort or reminds me of the demon cultists after durlag's tower, and the soul dagger... but you could still make it even better than that ^_^
"In light of the above, it doesn't make much sense to request new monsters, as they won't have distinctive animations to go (and I personally believe Baldur's Gate already has enough monsters that share the same animation or a recolored version of the same animation)."
@iLex A man can dream though, right? (Yeah, I know they said they won't... but maybe since BGEE2 comes out later, they might have time to draw up the animations...)
As much as I like Demogorgon, he is nothing compared to a Tarrasque. Gods avoid the Tarrasque, similar to how Greek Gods avoided unleashing the Kraken. It is an uncontrollable monster that destroys Era's not civilizations. While the true God of Murder would love to release such a thing, other Gods would actually have to get involved to stop the Tarrasque from going too far. The hero of BG wouldn't have a chance in hell, actually he would have a better chance fighting all of hell than beating a Tarrasque.
The Tarrasque Wiki give few info to add what we already know of him, and make a quote of tarrasque being classified as an alien form of life in the spelljammer series, being original from the planet Falx. If this is to be believed or not i can't affirm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrasque_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)
Tarrasque: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm
While this looks big, mean and super tough, I can easily stat out a Divine Rank 1 diety that would own the face off of a Tarrasque.