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An Honest Man Goes to Jail

LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 936
Read my brief list of myths about the justice system, "An Honest Man Goes to Jail," at my blog here:

https://wordpress.com/read/feeds/12691918/posts/1960431266

Grond0

Comments

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,188
    Any chance of viewing this without needing to log in to the website link?

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,923
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,188
    edited August 2018
    That link worked. Sorry to hear about your experience dealing with 'The Law' but unfortunately I'm not surprised. I also am white and have experienced the exact same treatment you describe. It's all about the money now and treating people like human beings seems to be a thing of the past.

    It certainly may be worse if you're of another race, but this myth that white folks get treated with kid gloves is most certainly just that, a myth...

    ricoyung
  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248
    @Balrog99

    Say that again when it's your child that has been brutally gunned down by police for the color of their skin.

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,833
    @voidofopinion: Balrog99 did not diminish the severity of police brutality, nor did he deny that it happened to non-whites. He merely stated that whites can also be victimized, which is true.

    In fact, he agreed with you here:
    Balrog99 said:


    It certainly may be worse if you're of another race

    You do Balrog99 an injustice by implying that he's dismissing anti-black violence as minor or unimportant.

    Balrog99ricoyung
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,188

    @voidofopinion: Balrog99 did not diminish the severity of police brutality, nor did he deny that it happened to non-whites. He merely stated that whites can also be victimized, which is true.

    In fact, he agreed with you here:

    Balrog99 said:


    It certainly may be worse if you're of another race

    You do Balrog99 an injustice by implying that he's dismissing anti-black violence as minor or unimportant.
    Exactly, @semiticgod, it certainly could be worse if I was of another race but I'm not. That doesn't mean that cops treat me with respect. At best they may treat me with less disrespect. @voidofopinion saying that at least I don't have to worry about being shot didn't offend me, however.

    semiticgoddessvoidofopinion
  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248
    @Balrog99

    I lived in a Black/Latino ghetto in Chicago on a bordering territory of the latin kings and gangstar disciples. I know what it's like to fear for your life every friday night at 2am when the kids start shooting up the place. And I know what it's like to step out of the border and watch your best friend beaten to the point of losing an eye by the cops right in front of you for no other reason than he was a young black man.

    I have also worked in underprivileged schools and had the displeasure of telling a 5 year old why his parents wont be picking him up... and having to explain even more tragic and painful news to two young parents whose son was in critical condition after being gunned down for "shooting bad guys" with a stick.

    I am very aware of the privilege and protection my skin color affords me... And by comparison... Yes, we are treated with kid gloves. Nice, warm, fuzzy kid gloves with a nice cup of coco to go with them.

    Cops can be assholes to everyone but the systemic violence committed against blacks and latino's in america is epidemic in scope and putting "our struggle" in the same conversation is like complaining about stubbing a toe on a cancer ward.

    I appreciate that wasn't your intent and I hope I have given my initial response some context. Painful context but context nonetheless.

    Balrog99semiticgoddess
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    @LordRumfish thanks for sharing. I find it interesting/disturbing when comparing the justice machine of my original UK vs. my adopted USA. Folks in the UK get upset by their policing too, especially the more you deviate from the white middle-class ideal, but at least they police still feel like servants of the people. The police forces of the UK still oppose being armed, as they need that element of public trust, to maintain "policing by consent". The US system feels very much more an us vs. them situation that is best avoided at all levels, and as you note, get progressively nastier the more you differ from their docile and obedient WASP model citizen.

    Innocent Until Proven Guilty is one of the worst myths of our time though. First, it should be stated as Innocent /Unless/ Proven Guilty, 'until' already supposes that everything prior to the verdict is a mere formality. But the term itself is no more than a requirement on the level of evidence in determining a verdict in a court trial, it has no bearing on how you get there. Once at trial, it simply means the onus is on the prosecution to prove it is more likely than not that you committed the crime. Some crimes raise the bar from "balance of probabilities" all the way up to "beyond a reasonable doubt", but you must always prove your case, rather than assume the accused is guilty and it is their job to prove innocence (a standard in some other regimes). Outside of the actual court process, this has no bearing, and >95% of US charges are resolved by plea bargains outside court - due process itself is a myth in this country, as we cannot afford to fund a court system to cope with the demand otherwise. The truism for USA is that you get the best justice you can afford, and that sadly seems all too true :(

    Also note that innocent-unless-proven-guilty is not a universal, although it may be in USA. In the UK, there are "strict liability" offenses where it is indeed your responsibility as the accused to prove yourself innocent, rather than the state's job to prove you are guilty. These appear mostly to be an invention of the 90s or 00s, but are increasingly popular among the UK ruling classes bolstering their state apparatus, especially in IT law (as everything IT is all about the terrorists that may abuse it).

  • themazingnessthemazingness Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 701
    I've never experienced dealing with incarceration, but it does sadden me that the legal system seems this broken. I've also noticed that the right to a speedy trial seems to be a myth. I can't count how many times I hear of an arrest in the news and much, much later hear about the results of a trial. Red tape doesn't seem to be factored into "a speedy trial." It makes me wonder how often this right is actually violated.

    Balrog99
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