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GitLab MegaMod Project - All The Mods

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  • Contemplative_HamsterContemplative_Hamster Member Posts: 844
    edited August 2018
    Anprionsa said:

    @Contemplative_Hamster

    Significant time? What? Having a discussion on the merits of this project is hardly wasting time.

    It IS, however, you who insists on having and continuing a discussion about a project that none of the modders wanted - neither discussion nor project. So from your point of view, everything's dandy. Not necessarily so from the modders' point of view, though.


    As for the feasibility of your project:

    @Anprionsa said "GitLab MegaMod Project - All The Mods"
    CamDawg said:

    The problem is that you cannot accomplish your goal with this method--either you're going to need to add mods to Github without an author's permission, or the list will be incomplete.

    jastey said:

    Only that non of these modders you so generously include into your working plan did actually ask you to give them more work for updating their mod downloads.

    As for your intentions:

    @Anprionsa , I sincerely believe you have the very best of intentions. You want to preserve mods and make them available. You probably came up with this idea when you couldn't access SHS for your favourite mods some days ago - you made a post to that effect, I think I recall. But this is not the way, you are being told. Either because modders don't want you to, or your efforts would be for naught as, over time, you drift away and leave another outdated list or unwanted repository somewhere for them to deal with or keep an eye on.

    Now, there are ways you can contribute. You can contact individual modders and suggest - suggest, mind you - they move to Github for better dissemination of mods in case their favourite hosting sites/forums become unavailable. You can ask @ALIEN if he needs any help with BWS.

    But you can't, or at least shouldn't, do anything that even hints of (or could in any way be perceived as by the public or by individual modders) taking over someone's work, insinuating any sort of role in the work, taking away exclusive control, forking off any branch of anyone's work. There has been enough of that. I myself was taken in recently by a fraudster whose work, as I understood the situation, was central to the creation and dissemination of major mods. She - Roxanne - was not. But that's how unclear lines of authorship and responsibility hurt this community. If modders want no ambiguity in terms of authorship, lines of communication and feedback, or which mods get linked where, when, and by whom, then we should respect that. Surely you agree?

  • AnprionsaAnprionsa Member Posts: 106
    @Contemplative_Hamster

    How can I know if they want it or not when only a few have commented over the course of less than a day? If I don't post and find out and discuss I'd never know? I don't think it's dandy, I think it's necessary. You and I are apart of the same community.

    However, I appreciate your candor. This is the type of feedback, however harsh to myself it appears, I was hoping for. I have no allusions to the difficulty of the project I want to create. Having received the feedback I've already moved the links off site and asked others to do the same to limit the visibility until the feasibility of the project and the permission from modders has increased.

    Like I've mentioned previously it requires no input on their part unless one of two things occur.

    1) They stop developing their projects and someone isn't around to move it to an archive
    2) They stop and someone else picks it up and the link isn't updated.

    Because the repositories automatically update, those are the only two times that the list could ever go out of date. If enough people support this, then it will be a non issue, just like all other issues when something is widely supported.

    I've already contacted quite a few modders in hope of their support. I've taken everything down, almost immediately after having received the feedback, in hopes of having that support. This will, obviously now, take some time to complete. I'm OK with that.

    Lastly, I've never, not in any form, taken the work of others and passed it off here. Each and every mod that I have linked to has been directly to the modder. There is nothing in my name other than that I created the list. That's it. In any other forum I would have just put together a compilation of mods and create a forum post. That is how this should be viewed.

    I agree that there should be that communication, which is why I created this post and this project. I WANT that communication. I want to be able to know these things. You can have confidence that I will do this correctly. I'll talk to each modder that I can and make sure they understand. If it takes a while then so be it. But I'd prefer help. I'd prefer the community NOT have an issue with a link to their work. I don't want them to have more work, I want better forms of communication and a better way to find and talk about the mods that each one of you have created.

    I hope we can come to some sort of agreement here. My goal is openness and the freedom to find something easily. That's about all I want out of this.

    NostarielLoldrup
  • Good luck to you. I have no mods of my own making in this game, you will not be dissuaded, and I've lost interest in this thread.

  • ALIENALIEN Member Posts: 1,140
    edited August 2018
    @Anprionsa I've checked BigWorldSetup, let's call it "gitlab link". While I was able to disable Wikis, Issues and limit what you can do with it", the main issue raised by others remains: anyone with gitlab account can fork (and you can't disable this feature) the "gitlab link" and then, it became direct copy of the files, without any connection to original GitHub.com repository - a modder doesn't know that his mod was mirrored that way. This is very different from current workflow when for eg: swit can see all EET forks and receive contributions from the forks. Even if mod is abandoned on github, any forks will lead direct to the original repository so people can easy track source and check if for eg: new maintainer didn't include some sneaky, unavoidable "dialog additions".

    EDIT: Disable Forking was possible and it was apply globally. This is no longer a problem.

    So the idea of the "new mod link database" is good. The thing is, gitlab is not a good place for it. Forum threads have it's issues, so maybe a wiki?

    Post edited by ALIEN on
    JuliusBorisov
  • LavaDelVortelLavaDelVortel Member Posts: 1,783
    I usually restrain myself from going deeper after I stated myself, but I've decided to make an exception.

    What you asked the modders was uploading their work to Git repository. I am not sure if you're aware, but I'm an author of 30+ mods. Artemius_I has ~15 mods, I think. Jastey does not only take care of her mods, but is also updating mods released by other great yet retired modders like Berelinde. If you think that uploading all that project properly, providing all the information, documentation and then getting back and uploading yet another mirror is "nothing" then you mean you have very little respect for modders who keep checking updates and reports and provide updates of their work (and projects they inherited). When I make a new version of let's say Southern Edge I already have to: make sure it all works fine, upload it at SHS, prepare a post for SHS, prepare an announcement for the IE Modding Feed, post the information at Beamdog Forums, upload the new version to my current emergency mirror. Now you want me to keep yet another mirror updated, because I will still need to upload the version at Git (and it would be nice to post information on changes too, because that is always something players ask about). That is still more work and that is not "nothing". That's one thing.

    Second thing: I am not sure if you realized that you managed to repel well-known modders here. Jastey, Artemius, Argent77, CamDawg and myself... We all combined released more than 60 maintained mods. That means your project will always remain really far crom complete.

    That is my final note here and I won't be taking part in any further discussions. This project isn't something I cam be ever interested in.

  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,145
    edited August 2018
    @Anprionsa
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand that well, you are talking about the creation of something that already exists, but virtually no one is using it because the absolute majority of BG fans are focused on this forum and everyone knows it.

    Are you familiar with the existence and all possibilities of nexusmods?
    Reliable database with comprehensive search capabilities, tags and possibility to track mod updates, including alerts for player.

    https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate2ee/mods/

    The only minor disadvantage is that the current "Nexus Mod Manager" (program that can do amazing things about mods management) does not support Baldurs Gate. I personally think that it is due to the unfortunate installation of texts into the main dialog file. But this problem could be resolved by using a multiple backup of a main dialog files after installing each mod.

    I think it's not that difficult to arrange, but right now, BG has about twenty modes on nexus, so no one thought that is it important problem.

  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 1,903
    Anprionsa said:


    Like I've mentioned previously it requires no input on their part unless one of two things occur.

    1) They stop developing their projects and someone isn't around to move it to an archive
    2) They stop and someone else picks it up and the link isn't updated.

    Because the repositories automatically update, those are the only two times that the list could ever go out of date.

    Which are the exact problems which lead to all the former lists becoming outdated: change of mod maintenance, move of mods - these are the problem and the reason all other lists are outdated! The idea of a modder telling on time that he/she is no longer maintaining a mod is unrealistic (because only very few plan this). That's my experience over the last 14 years, as I already pointed out above.

    I aplogize for being so harsh on this idea. I do appreciate your effort and also the idea behind it. But the basic assumption of your idea is that most modders will put their mods onto GitHub, and that they will tell you if they stop maintaining their mods. I am sorry that I obviously turned into an old grumpy veteran but both assumptions are not what my experience tells me is going to happen. (I'm not judging modders not wanting to use GitHub with this statement.)

    And unless more mods will be moved to GitHub (or any other Git), your GitLab list is pointless.

    That's why I keep on saying that if you want to contribute to the community, then either convince modders to actually use GitHub, and/or work on a mod list that does not insert another layer between modder and players (and is more well received by modders).

    StummvonBordwehr
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,611
    I appreciate your taking the time to send me a private message concerning this matter @Anprionsa

    Though I understand that your intentions are good, I share the concerns that have already been expressed by other modders in this thread. I would not want my mods included in this project.

    Again, I believe your intentions are good, but you don’t really seem to understand the concerns that have been raised here by the modders. I can understand how your perspective might be different as you haven’t had to deal with such headaches.

    Edvin
  • AnprionsaAnprionsa Member Posts: 106
    @ALIEN

    Please check now. I've tried something that may solve the problem. It now has just become a glorified searchable list that just has the link to the GitHub source. There is no possible way to fork or to edit or to do anything to it.

    Wiki would still be a fine idea, but as you'll read on the ULTIMATE goal here is some type of common place to find them all.

    @LavaDelVortel

    I'm not sure what you think is happening here? I'm not doing anything but trying to link to your projects. They aren't rehosted, they aren't having the credit taken from them, in all honesty it's just like any forum post. The furthered goal was to acknowledge that SHS is still down, any attempt at using BWS right now is worthless. Your mods may be on the dropbox, but having mods fragmented across different websites HURTS the modding community, it doesnt help it.

    @Edvin

    I have thought about Nexus Mods. The problem there is a few fold. 1) The modders here are from a time well before that website. Just like any place they would have to be convinced (as I'm seeing here) to move their mods from where they currently house them to another site. If they want to all move there, that's fine, if they want to move to GitHub that's fine, if they want them all hosted on these forums thats fine! The discussion is worth having. 2) The wonderful thing about GitHub is that it allows collaboration easily (or more easily I think) then Nexus, so modders come and go, but being able to pick up a derelict project would be easier on some type of Git service.

    @jastey

    I absolutely agree. I was perhaps to naive to believe people would see (or what I see) as the benefits. SHS is still down. And like I've said previously there is no backups really. I've searched countless times here or other places. When SHS or Gibberling goes down, so many people search here or other places asking where they are. It's so fragmented. I'm going to do my best to lobby the effort (or at least the discussion) on having modders try to find a place to migrate too. GitHub just looked like the best place because it's where I have found the most mods (Close to 200 on my count so far). I really do appreciate your candor, and I will do my best to lobby the effort to make that move.

    @Ravenslight

    I definitely understand the concerns. It's been on my mind now for 2 days straight! I'm trying my best to get the best feeling about this all. But I must say that the few that have posted here aren't the majority. I've had quite a few people wonder what the push back is.

    Loldrup
  • AnprionsaAnprionsa Member Posts: 106
    Let me reiterate my position now that I've had a chance to talk to many of you.

    1) I want to have the discussion with many of you about the fragmented nature of modding Infinity Engine Games. They are currently spread over many sites with no easy way to find them all. We don't use Nexus Mods, SHS, Gibberling, PPG, Dropbox, Beamdog, or any other site exclusively. Perhaps the discussion should be about finding one that can do that. GitHub has THE most modders right now. The few of you that do not, what would it take to move there?

    2) There are many modders that I can't contact because right now SHS is down and I don't have their information or who they are or where they store them offsite. I do not want to have anyone feel that I'm strong arming the community. I simply wish to have a frank discussion here.

    3) My list was perhaps a bit naive, but the intention was good. The few of you that have access or know the link can check it now to see if it better fits what you like. I'll continue to mess with it WITHOUT making it public to test it out. It should only now link to the original GitHub source (there is no possible way to fork it or download it from there).

    4) If you are a modder and you've read through this discussion, please consider moving your mods or at least be willing to consider it. Make a post, post the link, let's get this community to a place that isn't so fragmented. I'm sure many of you have searched before and not found something because it's all over the place and had to ask.

    5) There are at this posting 45 people online. 31 are guests. They don't post, they normally just look, search, and read. They may want to find a mod, but don't want to post. They can't find it, so they move on. I'm hoping that we can find a way to make it easier.

    Loldrup
  • fluke13fluke13 Member Posts: 379
    I think all that's needed is for the existing mod lists in this forum to be kept up-to-date and as all inclusive as humanly possible.

    Ludwig_II
  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 303
    As just a player who uses mods, I am with the modders on this one. I think as a player who uses many mods, I don't need this kind of a database. The existing forum links in this forum have been enough for me so far, and they've been kept really well organized each with their own category. Shs going down is not really our problem, if the modders want to provide another venue for access to their mods, they will do it in their respective threads or anywhere they like. The point is, it will be their choice, as it's supposed to be.

    I think what you don't seem to grasp Anprionsa is we are just users of the mods, we are not customers who pay for it. We have no right on how modders decide to maintain or provide access to their own work. They've been kind enough to explain their own reasons to you. And from an objective standpoint, I believe you've been a bit forceful in your approach and not respectful enough to the modders' decisions.

    Even if you make a database like this, I will still use the related forum threads for finding the mods I want. And I will not post anything else on this thread.

    Ravenslight
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    AstroBryGuyfluke13
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,153
    Instead of replying to your PM, I'll be posting here, @Anprionsa, I hope you don't mind.

    I agree a bit rather too much with what the other CD posted at the start of this thread; you want people to read your mod's forum so that they know about it and where to post if it doesn't work. Most of my stuff is either bugged out of this world, or clearly marked as an unreleased project in which it being bugged up to the clouds might be a bit more justifiable, but the point is I want people reporting whatever they find instead of uninstalling the mod out of frustration. No player has the obligation to do this, but the mods I've gotten the most reports for are the buggiest ones that are only linked in a single thread.

    All my releases are currently hosted in a single place each. Some on github, some on this forum, and I think one on SHS (which I think is on github as well, not sure, not gonna bother checking either). As Lava already said, taking care of uploading mods is a bitch. I am not opposed to the idea of encouraging modders to migrate to github as a hosting platform (specially considering how much it helps the BWS folks), so that mods are available even if the forums are down, but many, myself included, prefer to host some on forums even if we know or even use github for other things, since I don't want to make available more than one download link for each mod, because this makes it hard for me to keep track of which version is in which place.

    I would also like to mention that everyone that isn't posting from a phone is also capable of storing non-installed mods on their computers, as well as making your own lists for whatever you want (I'll take the opportunity to attach the list I use myself to avoid forgetting mods or installing them in the wrong order, so that I save some of the little time I have—nevermind, .rtf files are not allowed). While it might not be ideal since your mods are bound to getting outdated this way, you can still update them or check for updates when you need them, and I am certain this does not bother anyone (meanwhile, whatever you did here, apparently did), and still is very helpful if you make many installations of the game.

    I am going to reiterate what someone else already previously said, like I did thorough my entire post. You should help the BWS instead of trying to start another ambitious list that claims to be comprehensive enough to list all the mods out there.

    If you want to link whatever mod I have published, worked or commentated on, link forum posts and be clear with whatever you're linking is. Please do not re-upload whatever fits the previous statement that wouldn't get excluded for some other reason, and do not link any projects not clearly marked as released, as I do not want eveyone jumping onto whatever sorts of unholy beta versions I have posted (I acknowledge this is my fault, but as long as nobody wants to murder me for posting them I do not mind, and making people aware of them might lead to that path). As long as you follow these terms, I won't get angry at you.

  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,603
    I'm not going to read every post here, don't have the time or luxury but I get the idea of what this is about. The only place you will find TeamBG/CoM mods is at TeamBG/CoM. Our forums may suffer some issues from time to time which is where our downloads are at, but I've provided direct download links when there are issues.

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