Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Using Aerie at High Levels (TOB)

Hello. So recently I asked about how to use Cernd at high levels in a TOB game, to see what he could do, as he was a character I hadn't used much...and I was pleasantly surprised. Can I do the same for Aerie? Let's assume she has no special items, only access to all mage spells and standard equipment (normal or up to +3 enchantment) and HLAs. Are there any other NPCs she works well with ability-wise? I know she can be very versatile, even as a tank...and it's probably been done on the forums before, but thanks in advance :smiley:

gorgonzolaSkatan

Comments

  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 336
    Sorry, wrong forum - should be in BG2EE :(

  • _Nightfall__Nightfall_ Member Posts: 195
    Borek said:

    Being able to place cleric spells into Mage sequencers is very useful, she's also able to make herself immune to everything without anyone else. Combo's like Clerics Magic Resistance spell (to set MR to a lot lower than many TOB enemies have as default) then Lower resist are also amazing. She really shines with Amulet of power and robe of vecna, but even without uber items she's able to unleash some awesome damage.

    Yeah, she can be a superstar with the right equipment but even with the leftover stuff she can carry a party. Of course it depends on how each person plays but she is relevant throughout the game.

    My first non-sorcerer poverty run through SoA and ToB was with a cleric/mage(need to scribe spells so not perfect poverty), it wasn’t any harder than sorcerer really.

    Sequencers and Contingencies really work well with some of the cleric spells. Tons of fun to play around with. Used to be able to Doom and Chromatic Orb in a Minor Sequencer, not sure if that works so well anymore. Three Fire Storms in a Chain Contingency really does a number on magic resistant enemies. Or like @Borek said casting Magic Resistance, for the diabolical have her Simulacrum cast it to seriously deplete MR. Inproved Haste+Blade Barrier+Sanctuary makes her an invisible meat grinder. Blade Barrier before Sanctuary so you have a round to beat feet out of there or cast Sanctuary again before the first one runs out. Greater Malison+2 Web or Chant and 1 Web in a Spell Sequencer, cast Free Action, Third level cleric spell Fire Resistance, Fire and Cold Resistance, Sanctuary, walk into a group of bad guys, Chain Contingency 3 Fire Storm(or any aoe, FS because it ignores MR), use the Sequencer, Contingency II, Shadow Door, Mislead or Sanctuary and walk out. I tend to be more aggro with my clerics than most but sequencers and contingencies work great for support as well, she can be used as the ultimate in back line buff, debuff and healing.

    BorekgorgonzolaSkatan
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,858
    edited September 2018
    Dharius said:

    Let's assume she has no special items, only access to all mage spells and standard equipment (normal or up to +3 enchantment) and HLAs.

    can ' i ask you the reasons for this limitation? some unique items, like RoV, SoTM, AoP, FoA, Mace of Destruction are surely to be regarded as special items, as are among the most powerful ones in the game, and are surely part of many of the "recipes" she can cook.

    and correctly buffed she is not a tank, she is one untouchable by weapons and magic outstanding damage dealer, with 4 apr and thac0 and damage/hit better than most of the best fighters, while her simulacrum, buffed with clerical spells and protected by stoneskin and mirror images to last long, helps her with other 4 apr while transformed in a golem, for 50 damage/hit before STR and other bonuses, as RM grants an automatic maxed damage roll with other 4 APR. this is a "little" more than tanking, makes GWW pale in comparison and lasts many rounds...

    i have already posted some times before, but as i am not able to find the thread let me post again 2 screenshots of the buffed mlee champion Aerie. note that her AC can be busted further as there only the clerical attack buffs are used, but her mage part has spells that lower the AC, as well as the clerical one.






    SoTM, as vampires don't see trough invisibility, is a needed tool to perform her infinite experience recipe, that allows, as she reaches a certain level, to make the party reach level cap in few in game hours. she must have 2 PI memorized as well as a spell trap and 2 PW kill scrolls in a quick, in the other 2 the cursed scroll that sets wis to 3 and a minor wish one.
    she cast PI, then the PI uses the cursed scroll and the wish one, choosing to be protected from vampires.
    as the 6 vampires pop out and the PI is dispelled (automatically by the game engine) the real aerie turns invisible with the staff and makes the vampires explode with the clerical turn undead. about 60K free XP for the party :)
    then she cast the spell trap and repeats, but this time the PI uses the PW scrolls to recharge Aerie's spells before using the cursed scrolls. she can repeat it all day long. no other toon can do it. better done when she is in an empty room away from the party if you don't want the party mates level drained and chunked by the vampries. but 2 special unicum items are used, the SoTM and the cursed scroll, that is even rarest of the ones that make you immune to magic. this is only an example of how the combination of mage and cleric can allow things the other classes can not do. someone can regard it as cheesy, but it is not important, as it is only an example of how a little creative thinking, knowledge of the game mechanics and items can allow to widen the horizons of what she can do.

    3x earthquake, storm of vengeance or fire storm in a CC are easy picks for her, or she can spam a good number of implosions in a row to stun multiple enemies, plus her high damaging arcane spells while under IA, but again RoV and AoP are needed to maximize the use of the improved alacrity.
    Aerie cast PI, the PI cast IA and then GM, Doom on every major enemy and starts to spam her clerical and arcane weaponry. 1 storm of vengeance to disable each mage, implosions on the strong fighters, some fingers of death to take out some helpers, and on and over. it depends on the battle, for each major one a certain combination of spells works better. at the cost of a single lev 7 arcane spell, that she can recharge with a spell trap loop if she wishes.

    the correct question IMHO should have been: "at high levels in a TOB game, to see what she could NOT do?" as she can mlee, she can destroy enemies ranged (see the ranged aerie screenshot and make her cast energy blades, that she has from her cleric side and mage one), she IS, at high level, the best cleric, as she has PI, IA and RoV that allows her to cast far more clerical spells/day than each other, faster and more than 1/round when needed, and she can compete with the pure arcane casters like edvin or imoen, with less spells but combined with the divine ones in sequencers and contingencies.







    BorekBlackravenSkatan
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,858
    by the way this thread is about ToB high level Aerie, but is the SoA low or medium level one that is really fun, creative and powerful to play, i often have fun in sending her solo against the dragons in chap 2 and to see her chunk them while they can not make her even a scratch. @semiticgod, that is a very creative player, has posted in the past some very interesting ways to use her, some of them have been nerfed, but some are still possible now afaik.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,681
    I generally use Aerie as a tank and general utility character. While she won't always have many of the highest-level spell slots, she does have a spectacular range of options, and the ability to combine mage and cleric buffs with helmets and shields makes her very sturdy. She's perfectly capable of fulfilling the role of primary healer and provider of Remove Fear, Death Ward, and Chaotic Commands (in my view, the three best cleric spells around by far) and, with the right spell picks, she will have the ideal spell for virtually any situation.

    I don't usually think of her as a damage dealer. I do realize that she can reach very respectable damage output using cleric buffs, but for me, her primary strength is her heavy spellbook. What she lacks in sheer power, she makes up for in sheer versatility. There's never a problem that she cannot help solve.

    gorgonzolaBlackravenThacoBell
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 696
    To add to semiticgod, Spell Sequencer containing Remove Paralysis is a combo unique to Aerie or other C/Ms; if your CHARNAME is dispelled and stunned (getting non-dispellable stun immunity is... not easy) this is basically the only thing that's capable of freeing you. I guess arrows of dispelling as well, but that's risky for other reasons.

    Aerie, I've found, can easily be the glue that holds a team together, and is actually better on more physical-damage teams than on spell-heavy teams. She can give all necessary mage and cleric buffs that a melee character could possibly need (or use): Remove Fear, Death Ward, Chaotic Commands, Bless, Chant, Improved Haste, Improved Invisibility, Free Action (situational), Protection from Evil (10" radius), Breach, Remove Paralysis... So I'd say she works well with warriors: Minsc, Sarevok, Valygar, Mazzy, Jaheira, Rasaad, and Keldorn all appreciate the support she can bring to the table.

    gorgonzolaThacoBell
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,858
    yep, she is probably the most versatile and useful npc, i usually run small parties, 3 or 4 people, so for me to have her dealing also physical damage is really important, my typical party can be something like her, haer dalis, a fmt charname and imoen, or her, jan, a fm and imoen, so she is the main caster in chap 2 and when immi gets better mage levels aerie gives to her the rov and take the one of the good archmage.
    in those situations everybody but imoen must, and can, give his contribution in the first line, bashing the enemy with a weapon as i lack of a dedicated proper fighter to support charname, and when is needed she buffs and shines at it.
    on larger parties or more mlee oriented ones she better buffs other people and uses her nasty spell combos, getting close to the enemy only when the enemy is too strong mlee wise and the fighters need to stay behind an invulnerable tank to survive.
    excluding the thieving work there is no role that she can't cover, there is no task that she can't accomplish.

    BlackravenThacoBell
  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 336
    @gorgonzola thanks - I was interested mainly in how she uses her spells, but of course you can talk about special items if you want as it's a free country :) It's just a particular scenario I'm interested in :)

    Thanks also so far for your comments - I've hardly ever used Aerie and didn't know she had this much potential.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,858
    an other very powerful in most situations combination is sequencer with GM web web followed by a minor sequencer, on the battle boss, doom web. this with pre cast MMM.
    nothing can save often against 3 stacked webs, and if their st had been lowered by 4, 6 for the boss, and a webbed character takes automatic hits, you don't have to roll against his ac.
    at the beginning of the first battle round you basically disable a group of enemies as all the party start to destroy them with ranged weapons and 6 seconds later the 3rd web kicks in and the boss takes an other 2 points nerf on the saving throws. obviously the ring of free action and her free action spell make possible for the party fighters to go mlee for better damage as soon as the 3rd web kicks in, in the first round they better wait near the web border and focus on the few that make a saving throw against 2 webs and a gm, to keep them inside the web area. this makes some really hard battles a piece of cake, even at high levels. and with the correct party placement the other enemies will go right in the web or can be lured into it.
    but this is not a special aerie's only combination as mainly arcane spells are used, every mage can do it as the party cleric or druid casts the doom.
    Neverused said:

    Spell Sequencer containing Remove Paralysis is a combo unique to Aerie or other C/Ms; if your CHARNAME is dispelled and stunned (getting non-dispellable stun immunity is... not easy) this is basically the only thing that's capable of freeing you. I guess arrows of dispelling as well, but that's risky for other reasons.

    also staff of the magi, if charname is not very low health, and she can use it with better natural thaco then the other mages, specially if is buffed, but beware that buffed she makes a lot of damage for her str bonus and maxed damage roll.
    what is interesting of the use of SoTM is that his uses are free, while the arrows are available in limited number, so she can basically dispel every nasty effect on every party member that is not near death for free, or better at the cost of a healing potion, that the toon must drink to recover from the dispelling hit.

    i told before about MMM, she as cleric has better thaco than every other ( not also fighter ) mage, and she can boost her dex with duhm or later have thac0 of a fighter of the same level of her clerical one using RM. against every not fire resistant enemy she can do a lot of ranged damage, my other mages usually miss a lot with them, she does not.

    i strongly invite you to experiment your own recipes with your aerie, as she is so versatile that what she do is depending on the party composition and as we don't know yours we can help only to a certain extent. and if you discover something interesting please post it here.
    what she can do in a certain battle is also very depending on how the party is large as she is dual and splits her xp between 2 classes, in my little parties in which i fight soa chapter 2 with 3 toons she is at much higher level of the aerie in a party of 6, having almost the double of the xp, this is the reason why my aerie can very easily solo the dragons of soa and wk ( i usually reload many times and fight them every time with a different tactic, then i send all the party members one by one to solo them :) ), that i always do in soa. and in tob she hits the lev cap quite early and has the lev 9 spell improved alacrity even before, so she has much more options then the 6 men party one ( in the battle i plan to use the IA i give to her rov and aop obviously). in a 6 toons party the role she can cover is not only based on having more toons covering the physical damage dealer role, but also in her being lower level and less powerful, still is incredibly useful.
    i do this cause i like to micromanage a lot, but i pay it with 3 fighter less then the typical party, and i find fighters quite boring and point and click toons to use, not my style.


    Dharius
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,858
    Dharius said:

    I've hardly ever used Aerie and didn't know she had this much potential.

    this is fair as her true power is not so self apparent, you have to use her and experiment to discover it.
    what is sad is that there are players that often use her cause is cute (and others never use her cause is so whiny) and never discover it. she, haer dalis and cernd are probably the 3 npc whose potential is more under used by anyone that does not like to research and go beyond what seems to be at first sight.
    i appreciate that you are not one of them, your asking here shows you are not.

    Dhariusbutteredsoul
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,141

    Dharius said:

    I've hardly ever used Aerie and didn't know she had this much potential.

    this is fair as her true power is not so self apparent, you have to use her and experiment to discover it.
    what is sad is that there are players that often use her cause is cute (and others never use her cause is so whiny) and never discover it. she, haer dalis and cernd are probably the 3 npc whose potential is more under used by anyone that does not like to research and go beyond what seems to be at first sight.
    i appreciate that you are not one of them, your asking here shows you are not.

    I think it's more a case of just getting bored with all the planning and prep.

    I don't play "LOB" only insane/SCS and TBH by late TOB, who needs all this?

    I'm well aware how powerful she can be, but then so is everybody. And a party manages just fine with half the planning.

    No reload runs mean you need to be a lot more careful and because of that, I find them boring. Prefer to have a few goes and get by eventually, through often only by the skin of my teeth.

    gorgonzolaStummvonBordwehr
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,858



    I'm well aware how powerful she can be, but then so is everybody. And a party manages just fine with half the planning.

    i have no doubt that you and almost everyone that plays scs, no reload or lob is well aware of her power and possibilities, i was talking mainly of the players that play without those difficulty enhancers.
    sometimes i like to watch youtube baldur's gate videos and if there are very competent players i see, even among those that post complete let's play runs, things that a player with good knowledge would never do.
    casting low level spells to lichs, flame arrows to fire elementals, try to hit vampires with an enchanted bow or sling, but equipping mundane ammo and stuff like that. or i see people spending rounds and rounds buffing, but casting the short lasting buffs as first ones, so when they go to the actual battle are expired.
    most of the people that participate at the technical discussions on the forums have better knowledge then me and there is few or nothing that i can teach them, but i suspect that there is a silent majority that only read and is still struggling to get a strong foundation on how the spellcasting and combat system works. is for them that i post my full buff aerie screenshots.

    who needs all this?

    probably no one, even in a hard modded setting (don't know about lob + scs, maybe there is worth), but to know that it can be done can open some minds. and after someone discovers that maybe the true fun begins...

    DhariusThacoBellGrond0
  • DhariusDharius Member Posts: 336
    Thanks all, this is really useful stuff - makes me want to play as C/M or C/I now

    gorgonzola
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    edited September 2018
    One of the main reasons I am glad Aerie proves to have so much potential is that it makes dropping Jaheira so much easier. Insect Plague is such a great asset for the party but I always feel personally weird about traveling with Jaheira after discovering Khalid.

    What she really needs at this point is some time for healing with the Harpers who probably have just as much chance as Charname et al of effecting an effective payback option for Irenicus.

    And then I can also get by without Anomen which allows constructing an effective party of 4 with Keldorn and some combination of Nalia/Yoshimo/Jan/Imoen plus FM[FMT]Charname or a party of 5 with SorcCharname and Minsc/Valgyar/*******

    The simple idea of a whiner who turns out to be THE FORCE is always amusing.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,858
    Dharius said:

    Thanks all, this is really useful stuff - makes me want to play as C/M or C/I now

    C/I loses necromancy but gains a spell/level and this in late game is really strong, the main weakness of high level aerie is to few lev 9 slots that limit the most powerful combinations she can perform.
    an alternative is C of lathander11->M, enough divine spells to self buff when needed, with 2 boon/day to be a decent mlee cleric mage (you loose in thac0 when buffed but gain APR using the boon) while being
    the ultimate caster topping at mage 29, same slots as pure class, with a decent divine casting capability.

    One of the main reasons I am glad Aerie proves to have so much potential is that it makes dropping Jaheira so much easier. Insect Plague is such a great asset for the party but I always feel personally weird about traveling with Jaheira after discovering Khalid.

    jaheira is much more than insect plague, awesome spell but a heavy magic party has other ways to deal with casters, is a competent fighter protected by iron skins and awesome summoner (her elemental prince can co exist with a planetar, while cleric's deva can not). but jaheira is not a cleric, so lacks of fundamental party protections, like chaotic commands. a party that uses only jaheira or a druid as divine caster has to face some party buffing problems, i often have a cleric when jaheira or a druid is in my party for this reason. and both jaheira and anomen are much better fighters than not fully buffed aerie, they both can be as good as the dedicated fighter type npcs ( people like korgan, keldorn, minsk ) while adding utility with their spellcasting.
    aerie is well capable to be the only divine caster, but she does not make the other ones obsolete, just make possible to skip them to play other party compositions, and this is not related to her power use, even the underused "noob's aerie" does it.


    The simple idea of a whiner who turns out to be THE FORCE is always amusing.

    100% agreed. i like to play little parties and to squeeze every drop of power and versatility from the NPCs, jan and haer dalis have great potential, but probably is the avariel C/M that can best become the most powerful npc from the sub par cleric and mage she seems to be when you first meet her.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,595
    edited September 2018
    @gorgonzola I'm pretty sure Druids get chaotic commands. There was a thread a few months ago where someone was comparing cleric vs. druids spells, and a spell commonly associated with clerics, and considered a point in their favor, was also in the druid spell book. I could be remembering wrong though. hmmmm, hold on.

    *EDIT* Yup, druids get chaotic commands. Just check on a clean install. Also, dont forget Nature's Beauty. Permanent AOE blindness with no save is amazingly good.

    butteredsoulgorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,858
    1 other really powerful combination she can perform is memorizing BBoD and buffing trough spell trigger and sequencer, with a bonus contingency to grant a stoneskin/PfMW mid combat.
    after she cast the BBoD she has to equip a strong left arm weapon, FoA, Runehammer or the WK mace.
    outrageous thaco, up to -17 or more, 2 attacks every 3 seconds, more than 150 dmg each 6 sec round, level draining and slowing if she uses FoA in the left hand. without factoring in the best gauntlets that probably is wise to give her when she performs the combination, for a maxed damage BBoD attack more each round, so about 50 more dmg and better chance to level drain.
    holy power + RM + IH in the trigger make her fast to buff if you don't like to prebuff that much, 1 round to cast BBoD and as soon as the next round kicks in in a split second the trigger is used and she is combat ready, the sequencers can give her other tools to buff and protect herself as the battle needs it, without loosing any mlee time.
    i am not 100% sure that her simulacrum can do it as well, as i use more my aerie mlee combinations in not EE and i am not 100% sure that in EE is possible to manage to have the shield hand weapon active while using BBoD (not a problem in not EE and with not clone aerie in EE). but still her simulacrum can surely use BBoD and self buff so is other 3 BBoD attacks/round if the gauntlets are used.

Sign In or Register to comment.