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Some questions... (SPOILERS)

ArthasArthas Member Posts: 483
1) where can I find informations about the final ascension battle?
2) Are you supposed to kill Imoen in Ascension, final battle? I never understood in Ascension if Imoen is supposed to turn into the slayer and then join you once again in the battle
3) (ASCENSION but also bg2 - SoA) Can bodhi be turned by a good\evil cleric?
4) Does anyone know which mod unlocks the new ending for Sarevok? (he joins you if you are evil and becomes your chosen one in addition of being a clergyman of your church)
5) does anyone know of any mod that actually adds the cloak of balduran back into BG2?
6) Is there any way to summon liches to fight for you, when you are high level?

JuliusBorisov

Comments

  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 404
    I've answered the first five of your questions in the no-reload thread to the best of my ability. As for 6), I don't think that's possible (though there might be a mod for that). You can get lots of vampires though by having a low-wisdom mage cast limited wish, use the repeatable wish to be protected from undead - a bunch of vampires will show up - and use a high level evil cleric to control them.

    JuliusBorisovGoturalgorgonzola
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 558
    Enuhal said:

    I've answered the first five of your questions in the no-reload thread to the best of my ability. As for 6), I don't think that's possible (though there might be a mod for that). You can get lots of vampires though by having a low-wisdom mage cast limited wish, use the repeatable wish to be protected from undead - a bunch of vampires will show up - and use a high level evil cleric to control them.

    Why could you control vampires with an evil cleric commanding undead, but not liches? (I admit to being a noob and have never had Viconia turn undead at the sort of level we're talking about). Liches immune to turning?

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 3,890
    It is possible to turn liches (and therefore control them with an evil cleric). The OP asked about summoning liches though and that's not possible in the vanilla game.

    EnuhalJuliusBorisovsemiticgod
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    5. if you install the lich in the dock component of the tactics mod the enemy drops the cloak.
    is a fun and challenging fight and it should work in EE, even if i have not tested it till now, cause i play tactics with the original game.
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/41242/tactics-mod-bg2ee-compatibility-conversion-and-beta-test

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,855

    Enuhal said:

    I've answered the first five of your questions in the no-reload thread to the best of my ability. As for 6), I don't think that's possible (though there might be a mod for that). You can get lots of vampires though by having a low-wisdom mage cast limited wish, use the repeatable wish to be protected from undead - a bunch of vampires will show up - and use a high level evil cleric to control them.

    Why could you control vampires with an evil cleric commanding undead, but not liches? (I admit to being a noob and have never had Viconia turn undead at the sort of level we're talking about). Liches immune to turning?
    i believe the reason why you cannot turn liches is because you have to be double their level to do so, and since liches are usually level 21 that means your cleric has to be level 42 to succeed, so unless you have a level cap remover, it aint happening

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 10,693
    Kangaxx, Bodhi, and I believe also the unnamed demilich from Watcher's Keep are all immune to turn undead thanks to a special opcode. Other liches are vulnerable, though they require extremely high cleric levels for the turning to be successful.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    @sarevok57
    i am pretty sure that my viconia turned lichs controlling them and even my aerie made them explode.
    are you sure about the double of the level needed to successfully turn?
    here
    https://sorcerers.net/community/threads/a-cleric-is-having-fun.21706/
    thetruth, a very gifted player, gives the values needed to scare and turn undeads, vampires are missing, in original game, and i am not aware of changes of this done by EE (but i can be wrong about it).

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,855

    @sarevok57
    i am pretty sure that my viconia turned lichs controlling them and even my aerie made them explode.
    are you sure about the double of the level needed to successfully turn?
    here
    https://sorcerers.net/community/threads/a-cleric-is-having-fun.21706/
    thetruth, a very gifted player, gives the values needed to scare and turn undeads, vampires are missing, in original game, and i am not aware of changes of this done by EE (but i can be wrong about it).

    * this was done with a good aligned cleric

    so i just did some experimenting, and by the looks of it, normal liches only have 11 HD ( which is weird, i could swear back in the day they had 21, no matter ) so i made a fresh new cleric in ToB with 18 WIS/CHA and went to turn undead, and the 11 HD lich turned into bacon bits ( cleric being level 19 )

    so then i looked for a lich that actually had some hit dice and the elemental lich has 20

    so i start new in ToB with a level 19 cleric 18 WIS/CHA ( not even sure if CHA has anything to help this out, just did it for the lulz )

    turn undead against the elemental lich, and nothing happened

    grew to level 20, nothing happened

    skipped to level 25, now the lich gets feared but nothing else

    skipped to level 30, lich turns into bacon bits, so based on that rationale, doubling the level of baddy's HD is not necessary

    went back down to level 28, lich turns into bacon bits ( which i suppose makes sense since the 11 HD lich was turned into bacon bits with the level 19 cleric )

    went down to level 27, and half the time the lich would be "panicked" and the other half; bacon bits yum

    so by the looks of it ( at least for higher level undead )

    you need to be around 5+ levels ( might even be 4? ) to get yer undead baddies to be panicked and then you only need to be at minimun 7 levels higher to be able to have a chance of chunking them ( or controlling them if you're evil ) but 8 levels higher and its a guarantee

    i swear, back in the original game you had to be double their level to turn them into bacon bits/mindless thralled warriors

    i almost want to say that beamdog has changed the mechanics of undead turning in the EEs

    although in BG1 i still have to have a level 8 cleric to have a chance to chunk 65 XP skelies......

    ah, it all makes sense now, checked up on those skellies and they indeed have 1 HD which makes sense that i have to wait until level 8 before i can start destroying them

    so based on that, perhaps beamdog did not change anything at all and its always been the scenario that if you are:

    4-5 levels ahead of the undead beasties they get panicked

    7+ levels ahead they start getting chunked or controlled

    hmm

    learned something new today, who woulda thought, been playing this game for nearly 20 years, and only today did i finally realize how turn undead works

    semiticgodgorgonzolaJuliusBorisovBelgarathMTH
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    from the topic i linked, that is about original and not EE:
    "Lich: 11-18
    Elemental Lich: 20 -27"
    the first value is for panicked, the second for destroyed.
    that is very compatible with what you have found in your EE testing.
    it does not seem that EE changed turn undead that much.

    on a side note to have a lich become your ally, as from the question the OP made, the higher level is needed and i don't know a way to summon a lich, maybe the only battle where i used the tactic was improved tactics irenicus in hell, where there is a lich and viconia can turn him. but for regular lich fighting a paniked one is as dead as a turned one, as his scripts are broken and is only a matter of time to wait his defenses elapse and kill him.
    with vampires and an evil cleric, as @Enuhal tells, the limited wish is the way. and you don't even need a low wis mage, the safest way is to use a PI with the cursed scroll that sets wis to 3 and a limited wish one in quick slots. the PI gets destroyed as the vampires spawn and the PI must not be near the party or all their buffs are dispelled, but you get 6 nasty vampires your cleric can turn into slaves. the limited wish scroll is needed cause a mage with wis 3 has always a casting failure casting from spellbook. 6 hasted vampires are an awesome summon for the party.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,855
    i love how a lich that is level 11 can cast level 9 spells

    man that lich template is sure strong

    gorgonzolaThacoBell
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    well, a cap level fighter or bard can not cast them, a lev 1 wild mage can, if he is willing to take the risk and lucky enough to find scrolls to learn them. to each one his own...
    but the "lich class" is surely strong, no doubt about it.

    sarevok57
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 483

    Kangaxx, Bodhi, and I believe also the unnamed demilich from Watcher's Keep are all immune to turn undead thanks to a special opcode. Other liches are vulnerable, though they require extremely high cleric levels for the turning to be successful.

    does it make sense or it was just a choice by developers?

    I mean in AD&D there are undeads that are immune from turning?

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 10,693
    @Arthas: There's no particular reason for it. It's just done for the sake of balance.

  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 483
    edited October 6
    Or I would say, sake of unbalance, given that they act as special cases rather than the norm.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703

    Kangaxx, Bodhi, and I believe also the unnamed demilich from Watcher's Keep are all immune to turn undead thanks to a special opcode. Other liches are vulnerable, though they require extremely high cleric levels for the turning to be successful.

    i am sure that kangaxx and 90% sure that the demilich in WK can be turned in original, has EE changed it?
    on bodhi i agree, it was never possible to turn her.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,855
    Arthas said:

    Kangaxx, Bodhi, and I believe also the unnamed demilich from Watcher's Keep are all immune to turn undead thanks to a special opcode. Other liches are vulnerable, though they require extremely high cleric levels for the turning to be successful.

    does it make sense or it was just a choice by developers?

    I mean in AD&D there are undeads that are immune from turning?
    i dont know about AD&D but in 3.5 some undead baddies get a bonus to their check, like the demilich in the epic players handbook i think it gets a +20 or 30 bonus or something like that?

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,703
    also the bone golem is an undead but is immune to turning.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 3,855

    also the bone golem is an undead but is immune to turning.

    actually the bone golem is considered "golem" not "undead" hence the reason why it cannot be turned, that is if we are talking about bg2 that is

    GusindagorgonzolaThacoBell
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