Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge and the Tales of IWDification

1152153155157158178

Comments

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    @histamiini: Once you take down Melissan, would you post some links to Serafina's starting and end posts, and ideally links to the starts and ends of each individual game? Honorable Mentions entries generally include links to the run for easy access.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    edited April 15
    @semiticgod Looking it back I must have had -3 vs spells from items after the dispel, and I suspect it was the Fallen Solars which got the charm. Maybe I've too look into it.

    I've now tested the str drain some, but can't really say how to do it yet. It works if all of Big 6 are dead, but if you leave Sarevok as a tank and kill Melissan before Sarevok, something really strange happens. It restarts the battle again, spawning only Sarevok from the Big 6. And then there's two Sarevoks on the battlefield, enemy and ally, and Melissan is fresh again. Also I got Melissan to kill Sarevok just before she was killed, and then the battlefield was empty but nothing happened. I'm going to run some more tests to see if some cheese can cut some corners in this fight. This is a problem with such scripted battles, there's possibility to break them using legit tactics and game mechanics.

    There's some time between the last two screenshots, I was running away not thinking about anything. It's not you fault, don't think about that. I should've tested it before running into it, from different direction than you did. Anyway in this run I learned a lot, which I also appreciate. It's the first complete run of dual class I did and I could establish the Firkraag XP-loop to easily complete the late dual without risk.

    The run starts from here, https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/62202/the-lob-scs-solo-challenge-proudly-presents-the-crusaders-of-blades-and-stars/p144

    How do you link to posts?

    StummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    edited April 15
    Ok looked the Fallen Solar scripts and found it can use in current SCS? version Erinyes_Charm SPIN558.spl with -5 save bonus. So my innate -3 wasn't enough.

    Grond0semiticgodStummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 702
    Killing enemies through ability drain is a notoriously effective way to break things, unfortunately.

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    edited April 15
    That was... unexpected @histamiini as i already started writing down the "Hall of Fame" entry for Serafina... :(

    However the Archer/Cleric combo looks like a real powerhouse regarding 2.5 being on one level with Archer/Mage - no?

    In the meanwhile i played the most interesting game in BG: Rolling ability scores. I just had forgotten how hard it is to roll a decent number for Human Mages. After nearly half an hour i hit the 90 ten times but that seemed to be the end. Damn it. Only after try number 1349 suddenly a 93 appeared on the screen - hah! :D

    Fey the Human Enchanter will dual class to Fighter at level 3 to challenge one of the most promising combos of the past with 2.5 - this should get interesting. Lets hope time is with us in the next days (weeks). ;)

    P.S. Using the Print button only produces black screens now - whats that? ^^

    @Harpagornis
    i believe Archer/Mage is not possible

  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited April 15
    Archer/Mage is possible @Mr_Salty but only if you use mods like @semiticgod in his succesful run. ;)

  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    edited April 15
    Archer/Mage is possible @Mr_Salty but only if you use mods like @semiticgod in his succesful run. ;)

    is that not against the challenge ? if not. where is this mod i like the idea of archer/mage :hushed:

  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited April 15
    For me there are no problems adding other mods to this challenge: At the end its up to you @Mr_Salty! Just give us a note which mods you are using and create your own unique adventure! ;)

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    @Mr_Salty: There are three mods that offer an Archer kit for fighters: the Generic Archer kit from the Tactics mod, an Archer kit from Scales of Balance or another mod of @subtledoctor's, or my Universal Archer Kit mod, which extends it to paladins as well (though the paladins will not be able to dual-class). They're all the same if you don't install the other components of each mod: a fighter kit with +1 to hit and damage with missile weapons per 3 levels, Called Shot every 4 levels, no ability to use metal armor, the ability to get GM in bows and crossbows and specialization in slings and darts, and a maximum of 1 pip in any melee weapon. Note that the fighters will still not be able to use stealth or priest spells like a ranger would, nor do they get a racial enemy or 2 free pips in dual-wielding. Install any of them, picking the fighter kit, and you'll be able to dual-class to druid, mage, thief, or cleric if you meet the standard requirements. Or, if you go single-classed, you can choose a different race, like a dwarf.

    Mods aren't entirely against the challenge, but certain mods will make it possible to break the game. For example, there's an Improved Spellhold mod somewhere in which you might be able to charm a certain mage and get a staff that makes you invisible to all evil-aligned critters. The same mod also includes a sword that drains 3 CHA per hit with no saving throw (and some other items that would be impossible to get in LoB mode because the person carrying them is virtually invincible). Other mods wouldn't affect the difficulty as much and some would make it even harder. Notably, Spell Revisions and Item Revisions would make the game much more balanced and harder to exploit, but would nevertheless allow mages to kill Belhifet by using Mestil's Acid Sheath.

    The Archer/Mage was very excellent in BG2, but it was terrible in BG1 and SoD, and it would actually be nearly incapable of tackling Belhifet no-reload in the current update. It couldn't get sufficient THAC0 to hurt him due to its lack of a racial enemy bonus and its inability to use Champion's Strength scrolls. Basically, your only hope would be to lower Belhifet's MR and then use Arrows of Detonation on other demons to get automatic hits (you can't hit Belhifet directly, so you need another demon as a target) and penalize his save vs. spell until you have an 80% chance of Belhifet failing his save against a Hold Monster scroll (assuming he has no Improved Invisibility spell to boost his saves) and an 88% chance of getting past his remaining MR, if you used all 4 of your level 5 spell slots on Lower Resistance. If you could get multiple Hold Monster scrolls, you'd have a viable albeit not reliable means of killing him as an Archer/Mage, maybe dual-classed at level 8 so you can get another Lower Resistance spell.

    If you brought it into BG2, you could combine the Wand of Lightning trick, which so far nobody seems to be using for this challenge, with Called Shot to drain 6 STR per hit once you got to mage level 16. That's basically instant death for anything. If you used EET, the Wand of Lightning trick would work in BG1 and SoD as well, and you would have incredibly powerful disablers due to the save vs. spell penalties from Called Shot. Fire 4 Arrows of Detonation under a single WoL-boosted Called Shot and everything it hits will have -24 to their saves vs. spell, which means automatic failed saves against most spells.

    histamiiniHarpagornisMr_SaltyStummvonBordwehr
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    edited April 15
    @semiticgod alright big post haha but ill try out universal archer kit (but i need to use the fighter class into mage ? and not pick archer ?) also id like to dual at 21

    Edit: nvm i see u put the Archer in the fighter Tab

    and u never replied to me btw on the video u made, how u getting the advanced AI ? in the script section mine looks like this j4wiktoyturd.jpg

    also u guys are playing with the Save fix ? who was the person that posted that again ? so i can find it haha ima try that for myself aswell and maybe change some more stuff in SCS / cdtweaks to make it more harder for myself

    Post edited by Mr_Salty on
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    Now that I think about it, the single-classed Archer could make good use of Arrows of Detonation against Belhifet as long as there was a valid target. Arrows of Detonation strike automatically, and while tanking with the arrows is very dangerous because you take lots of damage from your own attacks, plus an extra +4 to damage from enemy attacks, 4 Arrows of Detonation per round would deal 86 damage to the enemy, or 43 to Belhifet himself. That's much worse than the other options, but it requires no Champion's Strength scrolls and will remove enemies from the map. Called Shot penalties would penalize your own saves vs. spell and THAC0, but only for 15 and 20 seconds, respectively, and that would apply to the enemy as well.

    I had trouble with this tactic in my Archer/Mage run because my damage was much weaker without the racial enemy bonus and I was using Potions of Power instead of Potions of Heroism, which meant the duration was pretty bad, but the prospects are better in EET, since you could use the Wand of Lightning trick with both Called Shot and a Lower Resistance scroll to get a guaranteed Hold Monster on Belhifet for 9 rounds of free hits despite the THAC0 penalties you'd incur from hitting yourself with your Called Shot-boosted Arrows of Detonation. In fact, if you cast Hold Monster twice, once right after using Lower Resistance and again when Belhifet MR was about to go back up, and you made sure to use Called Shot both times, you could keep him paralyzed for maybe 15 rounds. That would be enough to deal about 900 damage while dual-wielding, and you deal a lot more if you used a Wizzard Hat to speed up casting of WoL-boosted Melf's Acid Arrow scrolls for another several hundred damage.

    With the WoL trick, single-classed mages could deal 1,350 damage to Belhifet with 9 WoL-boosted Melf's Acid scrolls while a WoL-boosted Lower Resistance scroll was still active, though that would require about 12 rounds of consecutive actions. You'd need to be able to survive 12 rounds without using any defensive options, and if Belhifet survived, your only way of killing him would be to tank him with a Fire Shield, Blue spell, for maybe 9 net points of damage per round if he lands every hit.

    Mr_SaltyHarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    @Mr_Salty: I thought the "advanced AI" thing was an EE default thing, or if not that, an SCS thing. I don't know why you wouldn't have access to it, but at any rate, I never use that AI and I don't know what it does.

    The hotfix is by subtledoctor, attached to this comment here.

    As for your other questions:

    1. I didn't know I could skip right to Thrix safely. I would have run straight ahead if I knew it were possible. But doesn't Thrix force you to fight at least one batch of monsters before he offers you the riddle and opens the door? I'd hate to run past one group of enemies and then be confronted by another batch. Wouldn't I have to fight two groups at once? I didn't think Thrix re-appeared to open the door until after you beat the demons he summoned by the door.
    2. Your Caelar is bugged, unless she was outside the party and there's some wonky behavior if you kick her out. If she's in the party, she has 135 base HP and can die (though she'll get back up after the fight if she does). Was your Caelar inside the party? Was she unconscious?
    3. This was a no-reload, and I don't plan on continuing. If I continue the challenge with this character, I'll start over from Candlekeep so it will be a no-reload all the way through.

    Harpagornis
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    edited April 15
    @semiticgod

    1.run to strix get the dialog going. 2. chuck invis run away 2nd dialog appears take your pick on weapons 3 run inside haha no fighting involved its in my video at 1:58:00 now i messed it up a little and got a little mad haha but u get the idea

    2. caelar was in my party yea and not unconscious just standing feared with 10 hp there tanking everything like she was immune

    3. a bummer well u did well on that run u almost had him ^^ i think u moved a little bit to much wasting more shots on him but thats what i think tho i am no expert! haha

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    I just realized about the saving throw fix by @subtledoctor - this one will be installed instantly. Big thanks! :)

    Another question is: Can the over-the-top AC buff get fixed as well? On the other hand its making this challenge a bit more - well - interesting... no? B)

    Mr_Salty
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    We could create a mod that tweaks LoB bonuses. The AC bonus is excessive considering the already-excessive HP bonuses. I think, though, that we'd want to add some other bonus to keep the difficulty high, so the LoB mod in question wouldn't just be "LoB Lite" or something. If the AC bonus were removed or enemy HP values were tweaked, what could we add to LoB mode that would compensate for the decrease in difficulty? We already have bonuses to caster level, APR, saves, and THAC0.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    edited April 16
    After doing some testing with str-drain against Melissan, end script doesn't work before all Big 6 are dead. So I decided to do it the usual way.

    Serafina first lured Sarevok bottom left pit, charmed him with Control Circlet and left him there. Then I hit Abazigal with PfM and lured him to top right pit, hacked to low health, invisibility and left him there. Then did the same for Illasera and Gromnir, and left them to bottom right pit. Lured Yaga away from Sendai and hacked to low health, then lured him to same pit with Abazigal. Lastly hit Sendai with PfM and hacked her to low health. Now all except Sarevok were in low health.

    Positioned Sarevok where Melissan would spawn, and started executing the Big 5 with Energy Blades. Which was fast and efficient. Melissan spawned and was in stun a loop, I used this to position myself to top right pit far away from her eventual summons. She summoned great amount of help including couple Fallen Solars, and pretty quickly killed Sarevok. Melissan was now killable.

    5fwc0meroipy.png
    ih2rh5k6uzrv.png
    yl37p8qjfmg8.png

    Melissan teleported into me and none of her summons followed, more importantly the Fallen Solars didn't follow. Hit her with the Rift Device which took 60% chunk of her health away. And started hacking her. It took a long ass time as usual, as she casts weapon protection to +5 weapons time and again, and I only had Crom Faeyr to hit her in the small time frame she didn't have protections. But eventually she fell.

    d8n56afc8ai3.png
    1ec6go8o4h9p.png
    kks1r2fiv5rn.png

    Very anticlimactic end to the run, but what can you do when the game breaks.

    Grond0StummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    @histamiini: Well done! Good to see Serafina earning her rightful place.

    Do you have trouble dealing with Melissan's Time Stops? I assumed that that would be a problem, since Focus only lasts 5 rounds and can't be cast more than 10 rounds, leaving you with 5-round gaps where you'd be perfectly vulnerable to Time Stop. Without Hardiness, the best damage resistance you could get would be 70% under Armor of Faith--did you have to suffer through any Time Stop spells? It seems like sporadic use of Crom Faeyr would give Melissan a LOT of time to deal damage, what with her effective 6,320 HP from her LoB bonuses and 75% damage resistance. The Rift Device would still leave her with 2,528 HP!

    Looks like STR drain on Melissan isn't the guaranteed early kill I'd hoped. At least STR drain is still useful against the rest of the Five. A Vhailor's Helm clone should be able to obliterate the rest of the Five with Called Shot, the Scorcher Ammunition, and an Improved Haste effect, and quickly finish off the remainder after Melissan appears. The clone would probably vanish soon after, but the rest from the last energy pool would give you another use out of Vhailor's Helm. If you summoned two copies of Ras, they'd have 24 STR between the two of them, making them perfectly viable targets for the Scorcher Ammunition. You could use the stream to inflict fatal STR drain on Melissan even if the Fallen Solars dispelled all of your Improved Haste effects.

    I think the Better Stat Drain mod is still a good idea for Archers. It might not let you land instant kills on Melissan like it's intended to (unless I actually used the mod to mess around with Melissan's script, which is outside my field of expertise), but it would make the Scorcher Ammunition safer. It would let you use STR drain on the Five even after Melissan arrived without worrying about landing an early kill on Melissan and breaking the game. You'd just bring her to 1 HP instead.

    @histamiini: I notice you used the Protection from Magic scroll on Abazigal after charming Sarevok. I thought that would be incredibly dangerous since I was pretty sure Abazigal's opening spell was Time Stop. Also, I assumed it was best to charm Sarevok only after the Five were wounded, since they could easily kill Sarevok if they ganged up on him. But I suppose LoB mode would slow down that process and let him survive much longer.

    How exactly did you separate the Five? I'd have thought they'd all follow you around as a group.

    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornishistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited April 16
    I just had some more fun with rolling numbers at character creation and - well - after maybe 30 rolls a 100 manifestated on the screen. You think this is crazy-good? I thought so too before realizing which class i had picked before: A Beastmaster! :D

    Well, maybe fate was putting this one to life and therefore i have to play this one for real. Even though the class is often called crap-tier i think that it will have decent chances getting through SoA and SoD at least. We will see! ;)

    Regarding LoB changes there are a number of things we could add or change:

    - Bonus to all ability scores
    - Faster movement speed
    - LoB creatures cannot be charmed or dominated (*cough*)
    - More HLA´s for enemies (not only for casters including BG1)
    - Reduced XP (and/or banning XP loops)
    - Reduced HP values of summons

    We like to suffer - no? B)

    Mr_SaltyGrond0histamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    I just had some more fun with rolling numbers at character creation and - well - after maybe 30 rolls a 100 manifestated on the screen. You think this is crazy-good? I thought so too before realizing which class i had picked before: A Beastmaster! :D

    Well, maybe fate was putting this one to life and therefore i have to play this one for real. Even though the class is often called crap-tier i think that it will have decent chances getting through SoA and SoD at least. We will see! ;)

    Regarding LoB changes there are a number of things we could add or change:

    - Bonus to all ability scores
    - Faster movement speed
    - LoB creatures cannot be charmed or dominated (*cough*)
    - More HLA´s for enemies (not only for casters including BG1)
    - Reduced XP (and/or banning XP loops)
    - Reduced HP values of summons

    We like to suffer - no? B)

    Video proof to the list ? *Cough* haha

  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    anyway How would u guys deal with Draconis with cleric mage i cannot rely on spells realy in Lob mode and buffs fade so fast i run out of buffs before he turns into a dragon and then i wont be able to hit him no more.... (didnt knew the dragon did even heal himself grrrrrr) i did full buffup session slash up draconis till dragon form then used timestop/slash 5 times got him to 2 bars left and then no more timestops and so he healed himself and i am out of buffs haha to finish him off (thaco is btw so realy terrible on cleric mage)

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    @semiticgod Focus can be cast when you hear Melissan's Time Stop casting voice. Although Melissan only casts one Time Stop, if there's a tank, like I had there's no problem as she continues attacking it. Melissan did cast Time Stop but I was far away then.

    Only Abazigal and Gromnir see through invisibility, but Sarevok follows even though he doesn't see. This is good, because I could run straight to lower left pit which lured Sarevok out as an enemy, and then charm him, away from others. It also helps to separate rest of the Big 6. Non of them follow if you go invisible and leave them to fog of war.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    anyway How would u guys deal with Draconis with cleric mage i cannot rely on spells realy in Lob mode and buffs fade so fast i run out of buffs before he turns into a dragon and then i wont be able to hit him no more.... (didnt knew the dragon did even heal himself grrrrrr) i did full buffup session slash up draconis till dragon form then used timestop/slash 5 times got him to 2 bars left and then no more timestops and so he healed himself and i am out of buffs haha to finish him off (thaco is btw so realy terrible on cleric mage)
    Silence the human form out of sight, and hack with skelis until he changes. That way you only need to deal the dragon form, although I too had some trouble with it.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    @Mr_Salty: You might go light on your buffs at first, kiting Draconis' human form and casting new buffing spells as he approaches Near Death. That way, the durations of your buffs will be a little better when he does transform. You might try hitting his dragon form with Lower Resistance or Piercing Shield and then landing a Harm spell during Time Stop. Holy Power will set your base THAC0 to 1 with 20 cleric levels or more, and you can get more bonuses from Aid, Bless, Chant, and maybe a triple Champion's Strength Spell Trigger (Champion's Strength stacks, and while it disables your spellcasting, you won't need it after landing Harm). A simple Magic Missile or a basic attack should finish him off after Harm.

    @histamiini: Melissan only casts Time Stop once? Ever? As in, she tries using it once and from then on, there's no risk of her ever casting it again? Because that's kind of a game-changer for me. I thought you needed to maintain constant high damage resistance whenever Focus wasn't active, or else she'd eventually do you in.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    semiticgod wrote: »
    @Mr_Salty: You might go light on your buffs at first, kiting Draconis' human form and casting new buffing spells as he approaches Near Death. That way, the durations of your buffs will be a little better when he does transform. You might try hitting his dragon form with Lower Resistance or Piercing Shield and then landing a Harm spell during Time Stop. Holy Power will set your base THAC0 to 1 with 20 cleric levels or more, and you can get more bonuses from Aid, Bless, Chant, and maybe a triple Champion's Strength Spell Trigger (Champion's Strength stacks, and while it disables your spellcasting, you won't need it after landing Harm). A simple Magic Missile or a basic attack should finish him off after Harm.

    my cleric is only 15/rest mage dual class haha but that 3 times champ str spell trigger never thought of that i might try that out haha

    Harpagornis
  • Mr_SaltyMr_Salty Member Posts: 187
    histamiini wrote: »
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    anyway How would u guys deal with Draconis with cleric mage i cannot rely on spells realy in Lob mode and buffs fade so fast i run out of buffs before he turns into a dragon and then i wont be able to hit him no more.... (didnt knew the dragon did even heal himself grrrrrr) i did full buffup session slash up draconis till dragon form then used timestop/slash 5 times got him to 2 bars left and then no more timestops and so he healed himself and i am out of buffs haha to finish him off (thaco is btw so realy terrible on cleric mage)
    Silence the human form out of sight, and hack with skelis until he changes. That way you only need to deal the dragon form, although I too had some trouble with it.

    alright ill try out silence out of vision and see how that goes ! thnx for the input!

    Harpagornishistamiini
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,187
    semiticgod wrote: »
    @histamiini: Melissan only casts Time Stop once? Ever? As in, she tries using it once and from then on, there's no risk of her ever casting it again? Because that's kind of a game-changer for me. I thought you needed to maintain constant high damage resistance whenever Focus wasn't active, or else she'd eventually do you in.
    I don't remember seeing more than one Time Stop from Melissan. She does usually that in the beginning and then starts teleporting onto you.

    Harpagornis
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    That explains why it was possible for Bounty Hunters to kite her to death with a sling and the Shield of Reflection. I thought single-classed thieves would need to alternate between PFMW scrolls and Focus to avoid a fatal Time Stop.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,212
    Mr_Salty wrote: »
    anyway How would u guys deal with Draconis with cleric mage i cannot rely on spells realy in Lob mode and buffs fade so fast i run out of buffs before he turns into a dragon and then i wont be able to hit him no more.... (didnt knew the dragon did even heal himself grrrrrr) i did full buffup session slash up draconis till dragon form then used timestop/slash 5 times got him to 2 bars left and then no more timestops and so he healed himself and i am out of buffs haha to finish him off (thaco is btw so realy terrible on cleric mage)

    His human form doesn't use a magic weapon in the unmodded game. If that's still the case in this fight and you've picked up immunity to normal weapons in the Hell Trials, then you only need to maintain low saving throws against his human form - allowing you to save your buffs for later.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,325
    Ascension Anadramatis, last I saw, is also bugged to fight with bare fists, which means immunity to normal weapons will block her attacks.

    Harpagornis
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    Bounty Hunters can also make good use of Mordi Swords combined with Greater Malison + Lower Resi + Wand of Paralyzation against Melissan - thats permastun until she drops down. Put in Rift Device and its easy going - if it still works. Too bad Bounty Hunters are most likely doomed against Big B now... :D

    StummvonBordwehrhistamiini
Sign In or Register to comment.