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magic resistance

trinittrinit Member Posts: 705
edited June 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
If i am not mistaken (although it is possible i am) magic resistance was handled differently in bg1 and bg2. in bg1 magic resistance was applied to ALL spells, including friendly healing spells and other beneficial spell effects.

in bg2 magic resistance was taken into account only for the purposes of enemy spells and other harmful effects.
personally, i'm a bit ambivalent about which way of handling the spell resistances are better, both have their drawbacks and con/pro arguments. i also assume magic resistance relates to both divine and arcane spells.

bg1 magic resistance is more restrictive and presents also the downside of being immune to magical energies. i think this would have interesting effect on monk and wizard slayer classes for example. also, there was discussion on including the drow race as playable, and this would somewhat limit their powerful starting position.
it seems this is a bit more challenging way to play (although a bit more realistic in my opinion, it does say "magic" resistance, not "enemy magic resistance").

on the other hand, bg2 magic resistance is more player friendly and removes perhaps unnecessary risk of wasting a spell in the middle of the battle, making already quite complex gameplay more flowing and quicker.

more than request, this is a try to spark a debate to see if there is any preference for each way of handling the spells, but as a feature request maybe it would not be a bad idea to present the option of handling the magical resistance as an option or difficulty slider. (i see this game will have immense amount of sliders... :P )

Comments

  • CadrosCadros Member Posts: 253
    I am currently undecided. On the one hand I love that decisions have consequences and that if magic resistance is used ala BG1 then it can influence your tactics, and it is not just a case of more magic resistance is always better, on the other hand there is a lot to be said for magic resistance becoming a dull an underused mechanic in its BG1 form when combined with the classes of BG2. As implied earlier in the thread no one wants a wizard slayer who is immune to being healed.

    @trinit there will be a slider to display lesser or greater amounts of sliders, thus solving the slider problem
  • technophobetechnophobe Member Posts: 68
    Only a few possible character choices -- drow, monk, wizard slayer -- have MR as an ability. Every other instance is applied by either spell or item. In the end, the BG1 MR is just a PitA to deal with since it's not a genuine obstacle outside of those three very rare instances.

    Instead, I'd like to see them implement proper MR, which was that the MR given was for a spell cast at them by an 11th level mage. The resistance would increase or decrease 5% if the caster was lower or higher than level 11. If they can fix all the problems with Dispel Magic, I hope they can fix MR, too.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    I don't really agree with magic resistance affecting beneficial spells so I prefer BG2's system.
  • CadrosCadros Member Posts: 253
    I think I am siding with the BG2 method, @technophobe I would not say people playing monk or wizard slayer was that rare, and it seems foolish to diminish some of the major strengths of these classes.
  • trinittrinit Member Posts: 705
    @Kore: i agree on magic items giving magical resistance. that is annoying realism at the expense of flowing gameplay.

    @Cadros: :D great news! i sure hope there will be a checkbox if we want to hide or display slider regulating slider...

    jokes aside, i think i lean more and more towards the bg2 system. i think that will be the case anyway, if they are using a tob engine...
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    Since BG:EE will use the BG2:ToB engine, I guess the point is moot?
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    plus the thing is as well, this would affect enemies, for example clay golems have 100 % MR and they have the haste ability, it would be pointless for them to have it and not be able to use it because of their 100 % MR, i do think the bg II one is better it makes have MR way less trivial, i remember having MR in bg and being like cool, it blocked one offensive spell that was cast at me and blocked 98 beneficial spells that i cast on myself, good times
  • carugacaruga Member Posts: 375
    edited June 2012
    I'm fully on the side of BG1: it should resist positive and negative magic (and let Vic have her magic resistance across both games).
    Since BG:EE will use the BG2:ToB engine, I guess the point is moot?
    It uses the ToB engine as a base; BG:EE uses the BG:EE engine.

  • AntonAnton Member, Moderator, Mobile Tester Posts: 513
    Has this been implemented? Will we have some options to choose desired magic resistance behaviour?
    Will we have BG1-style resistance in BG1EE and BG2-style resistance in BG2EE?
    Beta testers?
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
    I thought that TotSC changed the Magic Resistance affecting beneficial spells, so it didn't anymore? I know that Viconia doesn't have my cure lights resisted anymore...
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    Its using the BG2 system.
  • trinittrinit Member Posts: 705
    that's it then. free healing spells for everyone! :)
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited October 2012
    Apparently in P'n P games magic resistance can be lowered by a character desire (whom have Mres can control it apparently), so BG II system is more true to the game.

    In fact a player do not have even to roll a saving throw if he don't want (need to confirm this one).
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,526
    kamuizin said:

    Apparently in P'n P games magic resistance can be lowered by a character desire (whom have Mres can control it apparently), so BG II system is more true to the game.

    True.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    In PnP anyone who had natural MR could lower it at will. Magic itens that granted it had to be removed or deactivated.

    Also you could automatically fail your saves if you wished.
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    edited October 2012
    I prefer BG1 system.

    Healing magic or not, is it still MAGIC and if you are imune to magic, it should not affect you.
    kamuizin said:

    Apparently in P'n P games magic resistance can be lowered by a character desire (whom have Mres can control it apparently), so BG II system is more true to the game.

    Not exactly true. You can lower your own magic resistance if you are monk, because monks magic resistance is created, not natural. Drows, golems, dragons and many more can´t lower their magic resistance, bacause is gained by their bodies not skills. Also if you have some extreme rare ring +100% magic resistance, healing spells will not work. Magic energy is magic energy and items do not have own mind ( Yes, i know, Lilacord... ). So if you want to be healed by magic, you must remove that ring.

    If you REALLY want BG2 system on this, you must change all captions "" magic resistance "" to "" resistance to enemy magic "". Otherwise is it nonsense.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Edvin

    I have never seen any mention of Drows resisting beneficial magic in Forgotten Realms novels.
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    @Tanthalas
    Read first two books from The Legend of Drizzt Saga, there is MANY references.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    edited October 2012
    @Edvin @Tanthalas

    Sorry that is actually wrong. Natural magic resistance can be lowered at will. It´s been in the rules since first edition. It's no different from closing your eyes if you wish to.

    Here this is on page 135 of the Revised 2nd edition PHB:

    "Magic resistance is an innate ability - that is, the possessor does not have to do anything special to use it. The creature need not even be aware of the threat for his magic resistance to operate. Such resistance is part of the creature or item and cannot be separated from it. (Creatures, however, can voluntarily lower their magic resistance at will.)"

    You can read it online on Scribd if you wish:

    http://pt.scribd.com/doc/76828432/AD-D-Player’s-Handbook-2nd-Edition-revised-TSR-2159


    So for magic itens you need either to remove or deactivate the item. Natural magic resistance can be lowered at will.
    Post edited by mlnevese on
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