Anyone remember how the original version handled this scene? I can only remember something like this
"prank turned into sex"
happened but can't recall how it is written, is it possible that the re-writer just kept the original event? Some time ago I read part of a translated original version (to my native language) and was surprised that the re-writing didn't change much to "what happened" but "how it's written", so I guess the possibility is there.
To be fair there were quite some bad/controversial ideas in the original one, and at least she kept the famous one...
you can also romance her as a female charname remember.
and if imoen had issues with it she would have pushed you off. as you don't get the camp fire scene until you get the lt about a certain subject that would make her uneasy to have you just kissing her out of the blue. but as the lts show you were both having dreams about having feelings for eachother. she does not have issues until the final love talk.
Anyone remember how the original version handled this scene? I can only remember something like this
"prank turned into sex"
happened but can't recall how it is written, is it possible that the re-writer just kept the original event? Some time ago I read part of a translated original version (to my native language) and was surprised that the re-writing didn't change much to "what happened" but "how it's written", so I guess the possibility is there.
To be fair there were quite some bad/controversial ideas in the original one, and at least she kept the famous one...
there is no sex in the e rewrite. you just kiss eachother.
It probably comes off as being awkward or odd because up until that point the mod is still trying to allow for the twin routes of the "Imoen never had any feelings for you, it's all in your head, you goof" friendship path and "Imoen always had feelings for you, ever since you were children, but she kept it hidden" romance path, which results in this feeling where you're not sure what's "real" and what Imoen is really thinking. It's annoying, but I sort of accept it due to the mod trying to cater to players who have very different ideas of what they want out of the IR mod.
This is a problem with a lot of RPG romance arcs in general, and I'd argue that even BioWare's own romances are not immune to less-than-wholesome interpretations, tonal conflicts or unclear mechanics. This mod isn't an exception to the rule. Far from it. It's part of the problem with writing a romance that has to be optional by design.
And I can see why some can and will get bothered by this mod. By its very nature the mod is already going into some uncomfortable territory, and putting control and/or instigation of a romance in the player's hands will always open a door to unpleasant implications no matter how tactfully it's written.
Some time ago I read part of a translated original version (to my native language) and was surprised that the re-writing didn't change much to "what happened" but "how it's written", so I guess the possibility is there.
To be fair there were quite some bad/controversial ideas in the original one, and at least she kept the famous one...
I took a glance at the dialogue from the original mod offered on the website. From the looks of it, the modern versions rewrote dialogues over cutting them outside of particularly egregious and edgy moments.
If I were to suggest rewriting parts of the mod's content, I'd suggest that:
- Some of the dialogue options should just be cut entirely, like the "wacky" dialogues that seem to be a holdover from the mod's more controversial days. I know they must have been rewritten so that your companions/Imoen would react more realistically, but some things are best left on the cutting room floor.
- Sometimes you're given so many dialogue choices that it's not clear what path should be taken or what effects it will have. A lot of BioWare's dialogue trees limit the player to 2-4 options at most. Some trimming here wouldn't be the worst thing and it'd help prevent players from being confused about what choices do what.
- There's some instances of modern profanity and slang terms in the dialogue (particularly in the ToB section) that's rather jarring against the base game's firmly T-rated fantasy setting.
- If the camp kiss scene is a bother, it could probably be fixed through a handful of dialogue changes to change the possibly skeezy context.
- EE companions lack content. I know it's partially because the dialogues were written before the EE and its new companions was a thing, but still.(says the person who hasn't played the EE yet )
- Companions other than base game love interests should have dialogues about the new dreams. There's also a few events where some companions are missing dialogue while others chime in.
- The final battle against Irenicus in SoA should have some extra dialogue between him and Imoen. Her bland voiced line of dialogue from the base game doesn't fit at all with the mod's additions.
Now I hope nobody takes this post in the wrong way. The good parts of the mod are good. Really good. But it's haunted by the ghosts of an ugly past and sometimes it shows.
i feel alot of the evil options were what were cut. and betides the talk you get prior to the camp scene i would not really call imoen romance all that edgy. it's clear the rewrite went out of it's way to remove alot of the more distasteful subject matter that made this mod so infamous with bg fans prior to the rewrite. because now it's a mod i can't go with out in any of my playthroughs. it's pretty much as canon to me as bg 1 npc project is to bg 1.
during the talk after Bodhi's death she mentions "you had sex with your sister!" And even the variable tracking that is called MRSleptImoen or sth like that
I feel the same about this mod, despite some "legacies of the past" usually the writing is good enough to compensate that, and because it deals with my only issue with SOA (not that you can't romance Imoen but most of her content makes no sense) I won't even think of starting a new run without it.
I do agree that I do not know the whole romance, though, and maybe this one scene feels different in combination with her reactions in preceding lovetalks.
I think the problem lies wholly in the name of this mod as "Imoen Romance", which raises expectations of a "complete-able" romance when really the romance in the narrow sense is not its main focus (any longer). I appreciate it that there is the possibility for a (certainly morally ambiguous all things considered!) romance which doesn't just come easily to the NPC, but only happens under certain circumstances and upon Charname's insistence. That's something few other mods dare do, but very realistic considering the special relationship between Imoen and the PC. I think this peculiarity really adds to the mod, and I wouldn't consider "failing" to initiate the romance as missing out on this mod. I like that it's more of a comprehensive relationship than the popular sidequest-style romances which have the eventual consummation as their gamistic teleology.
yeah there is so much more content with imoen even if you don't romance her. like until the camp scene you could just say the so called love talks are friendship talks. as you get them anyways even if you are romancing someone else.
Oh please, about the variables: there are leftover variables in BG, called ButtPluggingCumBubble and SolamnicButtPlug. The first one controls Yoshimo dying in Spellhold. The second one has something to do with Solamnic Knights. You can't judge the content based on variable names :-P
That being said. I fully agree that PC and Imoen had sex at the camp. It's heavily implied: PC starts undressing Imoen, then fade to black, then "some time has passed, you've fallen asleep". It's pretty obvious what was going on.
I can get why someone said that but you'll need to be really imaginative to call it ménage à trois.
Edit:
I think they are talking about a talk in TOB if you romance Imoen and don't romance Aerie and they are friends then Imoen will ask charname if it's ok to have Aerie travel with them when everything is over. I don't think I will call it ménage à trois.
If you are thinking about having multiple romances it's not well supported, no special dialogues.
What wuke said, yep. Selecting the "Allow multiple romances" part of the mod basically allows you to continue romancing the original romance interests without it conflicting with Imoen's romance, but the two (or more) romance lines do not interact and have no special dialogue.
I don't think the option with no romance conflict is meant to be the official way of what is happening. I guess it was kudos to the players who want to have all content in one go without having to replay the game for every romance.
I don't think the option with no romance conflict is meant to be the official way of what is happening. I guess it was kudos to the players who want to have all content in one go without having to replay the game for every romance.
This is me! Canonically my Ward would have ended up with Imoen (Aerie if no IR mod existed), although he always remained a close friend to Jaheira and there was some sexual three-way tension with Viconia in the beginning, but for the most part, me romancing all the ladies (yes, even Neera, even though she's totally not my type and we're not looking for the same thing in a relationship. I just wanted to see her story!) in one playthrough was just to save me having to replay the game multiple times since I have this completionist playstyle where I try to do EVERYTHING in the game. I even did all of Dorn's sidequests, even though in my headcanon Dorn would have come to a bloody end outside of the Radiant Heart HQ after my Ward learned what Dorn was planning.
I've been a bit critical of the mod in my prior posts, but I'd like to say I'm very glad I tried it.
I generally don't even look at NPC mods as they tend to bring different writing styles that don't mesh with the base game's writing, but it's always bothered me that Imoen's kidnapping and rescue is the driving force of the first act of SoA, and yet there's so little to Imoen post-Spellhold. It's as if she was nothing but a plot device dangled in front of you to push events forward, and ToB isn't much better for her either. I was told to not even look at this mod thanks to its seedy history, but gambled anyway because I wasn't satisfied with the Imoen Friendship mod. I walked in expecting something tastelessly edgy and crudely written, but hoped it'd at least give me a more interesting version of Imoen than the base game provided.
RPG romances always feel like a sideshow, an excuse to sex up a story that would otherwise have no displays of intimacy, but there's an emotional rawness and complexity here that defied the traditional formula and kept me hooked. How the mod plays into Imoen's role in the main plot gives the relationship a sense of impact and relevance that's a rare sight to see in an RPG. Beyond that, I was surprised that it adds so many banters and interactions to Imoen outside of a possible romance, and at how well the mod blends Imoen's BG1 and BG2 characterization that makes her a more consistent character between games. It handled darker moments in ways that were in defiance of its reputation. I like that the ToB section allows her a level of character development that grounds the epic-scale events, and I love that the mod went all-in on epilogue variety and gave those epilogues a real sense of finality and closure. I never liked how the vanilla epilogues were written to send off your companions without considering if the PC ascended or not.
If there was a complaint I felt was more than just my perfectionist nature and personal tastes talking, it's how frail the scripting is. I've had problems with certain banters and dialogues not triggering like they should. The whole thing seems fairly easy to break, and only gets easier to break the more mods you pile on top of it. It's the one thing I really hope continues to improve. Any other complaints fade away when I remember just how good the good parts are.
This basically turned into a review post but I needed to get this out. It kind of pains me that the mod is doomed to be haunted by the infamy of its past and the implications of its subject matter, but it's not and never will be something everyone should use and I respect that. I installed this against the advice I was given, and now I probably won't ever play BG2 without it. It took Imoen from a glorified plot device to the emotional core of the story for me.
this is why i prefer the romance mod to the friendship mod. imoen seems not effected at all by her situation in soa with the latter mod. with bg 1 npc project, sod and imoen romance she now has a series long arc that i greatly enjoy.
It's really interesting how Bioware's bad plans for the character eventually provided us the chance to see, like Jarvey said, something rare to find in an RPG. Now I'm not sure if I'm in fact grateful Bioware made the mistakes - even if she was not used as a simple plot device she wouldn't have had more content than she now has in TOB, and when someone makes a romance mod for that Imoen it might be of better quality, but not as special.
Don't know if it's intentional: in SOA Imoen and Aerie's last talk about
masturbation
Seems to fire only if ImoenRomanceActive=2, according to the scripts, yet in the dialogue file this talk also has a non-romanced branch. I haven't tried the friendship route so can't confirm myself, have anyone gotten this talk with a befriended Imoen?
It's really interesting how Bioware's bad plans for the character eventually provided us the chance to see, like Jarvey said, something rare to find in an RPG. Now I'm not sure if I'm in fact grateful Bioware made the mistakes - even if she was not used as a simple plot device she wouldn't have had more content than she now has in TOB, and when someone makes a romance mod for that Imoen it might be of better quality, but not as special.
It's fascinating how Imoen's history is defined by last-second internal decisions. I can only wonder how many "Imoen Lives" mods would have been made had BioWare stuck to their decision to kill her off in SoA.
So I've finally gotten some of the mod's SoA banters with Imoen (about law, classes, etc) to trigger in my 3.9.2 playthrough, fairly deep into Chapter 6 doing leftover quests. I got the first one while in Valygar's cabin while doing the Planar Sphere quest, and more have been triggering every few in-game days now. Taking a glance at the scripts, even though BG scripting isn't my thing, it seems like I should have been getting these banters far earlier.
I'm still wondering if BGT and/or the limitations of the original game are to blame for this. The readme says it was coded for the EE and vanilla game compatibility is sort of an afterthought. I'll probably go through the EE versions once I'm done with ToB on this run, so I'll be looking for any differences there.
It's fascinating how Imoen's history is defined by last-second internal decisions. I can only wonder how many "Imoen Lives" mods would have been made had BioWare stuck to their decision to kill her off in SoA.
So I've finally gotten some of the mod's SoA banters with Imoen (about law, classes, etc) to trigger in my 3.9.2 playthrough, fairly deep into Chapter 6 doing leftover quests. I got the first one while in Valygar's cabin while doing the Planar Sphere quest, and more have been triggering every few in-game days now. Taking a glance at the scripts, even though BG scripting isn't my thing, it seems like I should have been getting these banters far earlier.
I'm still wondering if BGT and/or the limitations of the original game are to blame for this. The readme says it was coded for the EE and vanilla game compatibility is sort of an afterthought. I'll probably go through the EE versions once I'm done with ToB on this run, so I'll be looking for any differences there.
there were players who thought Bioware should have stuck to their decision, but i think this just give players even less motivation to head to Spellhold, maybe killing off the plot device makes the plot hole smaller?...
As for the banters, all dialogues under /Banter/ folder are treated like other randomly-fired banters, IIRC there is a 10% percent chance for one banter to fire every several minutes, plus the conditions written in the dialogue files, so it's nearly impossible to get all of them in a reasonably long playthrough, I usually have to abuse CTRL-I.
Don't know if it's intentional: in SOA Imoen and Aerie's last talk about
masturbation
Seems to fire only if ImoenRomanceActive=2, according to the scripts, yet in the dialogue file this talk also has a non-romanced branch. I haven't tried the friendship route so can't confirm myself, have anyone gotten this talk with a befriended Imoen?
even if it got rewritten the Duergar talk is really the only lt that sticks out like a sore thumb in the current version. like it could not be toned down enough.
I liked the duergar talk very much to be honest. It is something that definitely divides this mod from any other mod.
the problem is the imoen romance does fit somewhat with the vanilla text of the game. expect for this one lt. i agree with jastey remove the sexual abuse form it and make it less about sexual abuse and more the Duergar stabbing imoen or something and you get the point across. as the whole point of that scene is jon is trying to get the bhaal taint out of her by making her very emotional.
there is an unfortunate implication that jon just hurts charname but with imoen he sexual abuses her to get the taint out. and it only happens with her to. jaheira never says anything like that happen to her.
Comments
To be fair there were quite some bad/controversial ideas in the original one, and at least she kept the famous one...
This is a problem with a lot of RPG romance arcs in general, and I'd argue that even BioWare's own romances are not immune to less-than-wholesome interpretations, tonal conflicts or unclear mechanics. This mod isn't an exception to the rule. Far from it. It's part of the problem with writing a romance that has to be optional by design.
And I can see why some can and will get bothered by this mod. By its very nature the mod is already going into some uncomfortable territory, and putting control and/or instigation of a romance in the player's hands will always open a door to unpleasant implications no matter how tactfully it's written.
I took a glance at the dialogue from the original mod offered on the website. From the looks of it, the modern versions rewrote dialogues over cutting them outside of particularly egregious and edgy moments.
If I were to suggest rewriting parts of the mod's content, I'd suggest that:
- Some of the dialogue options should just be cut entirely, like the "wacky" dialogues that seem to be a holdover from the mod's more controversial days. I know they must have been rewritten so that your companions/Imoen would react more realistically, but some things are best left on the cutting room floor.
- Sometimes you're given so many dialogue choices that it's not clear what path should be taken or what effects it will have. A lot of BioWare's dialogue trees limit the player to 2-4 options at most. Some trimming here wouldn't be the worst thing and it'd help prevent players from being confused about what choices do what.
- There's some instances of modern profanity and slang terms in the dialogue (particularly in the ToB section) that's rather jarring against the base game's firmly T-rated fantasy setting.
- If the camp kiss scene is a bother, it could probably be fixed through a handful of dialogue changes to change the possibly skeezy context.
- EE companions lack content. I know it's partially because the dialogues were written before the EE and its new companions was a thing, but still.(says the person who hasn't played the EE yet
- Companions other than base game love interests should have dialogues about the new dreams. There's also a few events where some companions are missing dialogue while others chime in.
- The final battle against Irenicus in SoA should have some extra dialogue between him and Imoen. Her bland voiced line of dialogue from the base game doesn't fit at all with the mod's additions.
Now I hope nobody takes this post in the wrong way. The good parts of the mod are good. Really good. But it's haunted by the ghosts of an ugly past and sometimes it shows.
I feel the same about this mod, despite some "legacies of the past" usually the writing is good enough to compensate that, and because it deals with my only issue with SOA (not that you can't romance Imoen but most of her content makes no sense) I won't even think of starting a new run without it.
I think the problem lies wholly in the name of this mod as "Imoen Romance", which raises expectations of a "complete-able" romance when really the romance in the narrow sense is not its main focus (any longer). I appreciate it that there is the possibility for a (certainly morally ambiguous all things considered!) romance which doesn't just come easily to the NPC, but only happens under certain circumstances and upon Charname's insistence. That's something few other mods dare do, but very realistic considering the special relationship between Imoen and the PC. I think this peculiarity really adds to the mod, and I wouldn't consider "failing" to initiate the romance as missing out on this mod. I like that it's more of a comprehensive relationship than the popular sidequest-style romances which have the eventual consummation as their gamistic teleology.
That being said. I fully agree that PC and Imoen had sex at the camp. It's heavily implied: PC starts undressing Imoen, then fade to black, then "some time has passed, you've fallen asleep". It's pretty obvious what was going on.
Edit:
If you are thinking about having multiple romances it's not well supported, no special dialogues.
Thanks for the responses pals
This is me! Canonically my Ward would have ended up with Imoen (Aerie if no IR mod existed), although he always remained a close friend to Jaheira and there was some sexual three-way tension with Viconia in the beginning, but for the most part, me romancing all the ladies (yes, even Neera, even though she's totally not my type and we're not looking for the same thing in a relationship. I just wanted to see her story!) in one playthrough was just to save me having to replay the game multiple times since I have this completionist playstyle where I try to do EVERYTHING in the game. I even did all of Dorn's sidequests, even though in my headcanon Dorn would have come to a bloody end outside of the Radiant Heart HQ after my Ward learned what Dorn was planning.
I generally don't even look at NPC mods as they tend to bring different writing styles that don't mesh with the base game's writing, but it's always bothered me that Imoen's kidnapping and rescue is the driving force of the first act of SoA, and yet there's so little to Imoen post-Spellhold. It's as if she was nothing but a plot device dangled in front of you to push events forward, and ToB isn't much better for her either. I was told to not even look at this mod thanks to its seedy history, but gambled anyway because I wasn't satisfied with the Imoen Friendship mod. I walked in expecting something tastelessly edgy and crudely written, but hoped it'd at least give me a more interesting version of Imoen than the base game provided.
RPG romances always feel like a sideshow, an excuse to sex up a story that would otherwise have no displays of intimacy, but there's an emotional rawness and complexity here that defied the traditional formula and kept me hooked. How the mod plays into Imoen's role in the main plot gives the relationship a sense of impact and relevance that's a rare sight to see in an RPG. Beyond that, I was surprised that it adds so many banters and interactions to Imoen outside of a possible romance, and at how well the mod blends Imoen's BG1 and BG2 characterization that makes her a more consistent character between games. It handled darker moments in ways that were in defiance of its reputation. I like that the ToB section allows her a level of character development that grounds the epic-scale events, and I love that the mod went all-in on epilogue variety and gave those epilogues a real sense of finality and closure. I never liked how the vanilla epilogues were written to send off your companions without considering if the PC ascended or not.
If there was a complaint I felt was more than just my perfectionist nature and personal tastes talking, it's how frail the scripting is. I've had problems with certain banters and dialogues not triggering like they should. The whole thing seems fairly easy to break, and only gets easier to break the more mods you pile on top of it. It's the one thing I really hope continues to improve. Any other complaints fade away when I remember just how good the good parts are.
This basically turned into a review post but I needed to get this out. It kind of pains me that the mod is doomed to be haunted by the infamy of its past and the implications of its subject matter, but it's not and never will be something everyone should use and I respect that. I installed this against the advice I was given, and now I probably won't ever play BG2 without it. It took Imoen from a glorified plot device to the emotional core of the story for me.
It's fascinating how Imoen's history is defined by last-second internal decisions. I can only wonder how many "Imoen Lives" mods would have been made had BioWare stuck to their decision to kill her off in SoA.
So I've finally gotten some of the mod's SoA banters with Imoen (about law, classes, etc) to trigger in my 3.9.2 playthrough, fairly deep into Chapter 6 doing leftover quests. I got the first one while in Valygar's cabin while doing the Planar Sphere quest, and more have been triggering every few in-game days now. Taking a glance at the scripts, even though BG scripting isn't my thing, it seems like I should have been getting these banters far earlier.
I'm still wondering if BGT and/or the limitations of the original game are to blame for this. The readme says it was coded for the EE and vanilla game compatibility is sort of an afterthought. I'll probably go through the EE versions once I'm done with ToB on this run, so I'll be looking for any differences there.
there were players who thought Bioware should have stuck to their decision, but i think this just give players even less motivation to head to Spellhold, maybe killing off the plot device makes the plot hole smaller?...
As for the banters, all dialogues under /Banter/ folder are treated like other randomly-fired banters, IIRC there is a 10% percent chance for one banter to fire every several minutes, plus the conditions written in the dialogue files, so it's nearly impossible to get all of them in a reasonably long playthrough, I usually have to abuse CTRL-I.
changing
Global("ImoenRomanceActive","GLOBAL",2)toOR(2) Global("ImoenRomanceActive","GLOBAL",2) Global("ImoenRomanceActive","GLOBAL",4)should work, either fire after romance resolution or fire earlier if romance fails(typed the same thing again. my previous post was deleted because of external link perhaps? if so im sorry, didn't remember the rules well)
edited: misunderstood the number of lovetalks so the whole post don't make sense
the problem is the imoen romance does fit somewhat with the vanilla text of the game. expect for this one lt. i agree with jastey remove the sexual abuse form it and make it less about sexual abuse and more the Duergar stabbing imoen or something and you get the point across. as the whole point of that scene is jon is trying to get the bhaal taint out of her by making her very emotional.
there is an unfortunate implication that jon just hurts charname but with imoen he sexual abuses her to get the taint out. and it only happens with her to. jaheira never says anything like that happen to her.