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List of Injuries acquired in Ironicus' Dungeon

So, Gorion's Ward experiences varying amounts of memory loss, depending on the dialogue options the player chooses.

Imoen has that eye scar in her portrait now, and some people argue she manifests symptoms of PTSD.

Minsc is Crazier than ever. He's switched alignment from Neutral Good to Chaotic Good. He's picked up a vendetta against vampires somehow. His head injury is maybe worse than before.

I've got nothing for Jaheira. She seems distraught that her husband is dead but I can't think of any other specific way her time in the dungeon has impacted her off the top of my head.

Anything else?

SCARY_WIZARD

Comments

  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,125
    MASSIVE SPOILER WARNING BELOW DON'T READ UNLESS YOU'VE PLAYED THE GAME
    Dynahier and Khalid are both mutilated to death.

    Sorry, I couldn't resist. :D

    Chroniclertbone1SCARY_WIZARD
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 299
    edited September 7
    I think Dynaheir is killed in the ambush?

    Jaheira inexplicably gets more agile (+3 dex) and noticeably more attractive, although her cha stays the same

    Minsc’s experience inexplicably makes him tougher and quicker (+1 con and dex)

    mashedtatersChroniclergorgonzolaFrancois42424
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 524
    Dynaheir is indeed killed in the initial ambush where the Ward and Co are captured, yes.

    mashedtaters
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 475
    edited September 7
    Yoshimo gets a geas, ultimately resulting in his death.

    Balrog99Chroniclertbone1DJKajuru
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 836
    Imoen also has that weird dagger-in-the-skull headache and says that it looks like Charname is going to have some new scars.

    Last playthrough, I noticed that Minsc has the line "How could I not follow to find my friends after they disappeared?". Which is kind of weird, because I can't recall anything else that implies that he was captured later. Unless the original ambush only took Imoen and Charname, and then the rest of the party pursued only to have their butts thoroughly kicked.

    Balrog99Chroniclersemiticgod
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,577
    Zaxares wrote: »
    Dynaheir is indeed killed in the initial ambush where the Ward and Co are captured, yes.

    I don't think she is. Irenicus doesn't seem to be present for the ambush and is never mentioned being there. Both SoD and BG2 only ever mention thieves cloaked in shadow. What happened is that Irenicus killed her upon delivery or maybe even after putting everyone in separate cells, as charname is unaware of her death until Minsc mentions it.

    Chronicler
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,048
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Zaxares wrote: »
    Dynaheir is indeed killed in the initial ambush where the Ward and Co are captured, yes.

    I don't think she is. Irenicus doesn't seem to be present for the ambush and is never mentioned being there. Both SoD and BG2 only ever mention thieves cloaked in shadow. What happened is that Irenicus killed her upon delivery or maybe even after putting everyone in separate cells, as charname is unaware of her death until Minsc mentions it.

    Hard to know how much you should read into Charname's failure to recollect anything, since memory problems seem to be their big souvenir from their time in the dungeon.

    Are you sure that Jonaleth personally killed her? Wasn't just one of his goons?

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 524
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I don't think she is. Irenicus doesn't seem to be present for the ambush and is never mentioned being there. Both SoD and BG2 only ever mention thieves cloaked in shadow. What happened is that Irenicus killed her upon delivery or maybe even after putting everyone in separate cells, as charname is unaware of her death until Minsc mentions it.

    Hmm... I'd have to play it again, although I seem to recall that SoD's ending, in particular, suggested that one of your party members was killed in the ambush, and since Dynaheir is the only one dead on arrival in BG2, it would stand to reason that she was the one who snuffed it. Whether or not it was actually Irenicus who delivered the killing blow (as we don't know if he was personally involved in the attack) is unknown.

    Chronicler
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,577
    @Chronicler Minsc says that "He killed her." I'm not sure what other character this could refer to.

    @Zaxares No, the map gets kind of foggy, then a cinematic happens that tells you you've been captured. No menton of any characters dying. Do you play with EET by any chance? I hear it has its own transition cutscene into BG2.

    Chronicler
  • _Connacht__Connacht_ Member Posts: 144
    edited September 9
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Imoen has that eye scar in her portrait now

    No reason for it to be necessarily due to the tortures in Irenicus' dungeon. Scars like these happen during fights, so it could be a result of her journeys with Charname (no reason either to suppose that characters went smoothly and untouched all the way from Candlekeep to Sarevok).

    Since Siege of Dragonspear introduced a new official portrait, which is a strange mix of the two different faces of the two games, without that scar, I like to think that she gets that during the assault at the ducal palace. Or at least during the capture, but we see that everything gets foggy and the party feels a strange sense of slumber, like they get narcotized and then seized. No opposing fight of Imoen against her captors is shown, and she (successfully) attempts to escape only at the beginning of Shadows of Amn.
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Chronicler Minsc says that "He killed her." I'm not sure what other character this could refer to.
    .

    No, he says "They killed her":

    minsc-talking-about-dynaheir.jpg

    Unfortunately he doesn't give more informations. He doesn't say when this happens, nor the dynamics, who struck the fatal blow (a goblin? a duergar? a cowled shadowy assassin? a mysterious imposing man looking like a wizard?), or if "I watched" means that they forced him to see or if he was powerless.

    Does he say anything else in later dialogues? I don't remember.

    However, I don't think that Irenicus was directly there, or at least if he was present, he was distant and cowled, unbeknownst to Minsc. Even if he doesn't know yet who Irenicus is, he would have noticed such a different, imposing figure among his captors, particularly if he seemed to give orders.

    My guesses:

    1) While Charname fell unconscious, Dynaheir and Minsc tried to resist against the slumber (magical or chemical) and fought back the aggressors. As they feel to lose their strength, Minsc hopelessly watch the captors kill a struggling Dynaheir before losing consciousness. This clearly happens during the capture and is a result of the fight. But the cutscene at the end of SoD seems to imply that everybody gets immediately unconscious.

    2) Dynaheir and Minsc awake earlier. Minsc proves difficult to contain and is heavily chained. Dynaheir either tries some magic (getting temporarily free or simply causing some damage) or insults beyond tolerance her captors, who then in any case decide to teach her a lesson. Minsc can't do anything but watch while "they" kill her. This could happen right before reaching Chateau Irenicus, if the leader of the cowled figures deems safer to kill the witch. But it could also happen after getting to destination, while Charname is still unconscious or in a different cage area. If that's the case, I personally think that Irenicus wouldn't give the order to simply kill Dynaheir, not while leaving the other people alive. She could prove a valuable subject for torture and experiments, as she's a Rashemeni witch. Maybe the responsible is one of the guards during the disarray caused by Dynaheir.

    3) They know Minsc is the bodyguard of Dynaheir and want to destroy his spirit. Maybe he awakes like in 2) and the captors want to teach him a lesson, Dynaheir could be slain while still unconscious. Maybe instead it's just for a show of evil, particularly if Irenicus already did what he wanted to do and had nothing else to test upon her, so he commanded to dispose of her before passing to the next on the list (Khalid/Imoen).


    ZaghoulChroniclerGusinda
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,577
    @_Connacht_ Thanks for cathcing that "they". IIRC, later Minsc talks about avenging Dynaheir when confronting Irenicus (not sure if spellhold or tree of life). Minsc definitley seems to blame Irenicus for it.

  • AngulimalaAngulimala Member Posts: 49
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ilduderino wrote: »
    I think Dynaheir is killed in the ambush?

    Jaheira inexplicably gets more agile (+3 dex) and noticeably more attractive, although her cha stays the same

    I don't know, Jaheira's original portrait is one of my favorites. She looks pretty hot wielding that staff like a badass!

    I agree. She looks more voluptuous based on her facial features in BG1 portrait, and that thick wavy (dreadlock free) hair is to die for.

    Balrog99
  • _Connacht__Connacht_ Member Posts: 144
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @_Connacht_ Thanks for cathcing that "they". IIRC, later Minsc talks about avenging Dynaheir when confronting Irenicus (not sure if spellhold or tree of life). Minsc definitley seems to blame Irenicus for it.

    Well, because he's the mastermind of their capture. It doesn't necessarily mean that Irenicus himself stroke the mortal blow to Dynaheir. We don't really know how she died.

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 524
    That's actually a pretty solid observation there, lunar! I like that theory a lot too. :)

    DaevelonBalrog99
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,396
    edited September 10
    Thank you. I think more about it now.

    Poor Minsc. He says 'they killed her as I watched', because the vampires draining Dynaheir to death was too horrific a sight for his childish mind to comprehend and put into words in detail. It is just 'they' killed her...and now he hates 'them' instinctively.

    I guess they disposed of the corpse permanently to prevent Dynaheir from returning as a vampire. Or?

    Hmmm a mod that makes Dynaheir come back as a deliciously wicked vampire to haunt Minsc...that would be too cruel, and with wrong choices and actions poor Minsc could go full berserk and lose his sanity permanently. Maybe Aerie could console him by helping to put Dynaheir to rest if in party. (De-vamping is impossible because her maker is not known. The maker's-that's Bodhi- black heart is required to cure vampirism in the vampirised romance companions quest. And anyway it could be too late. The romance partner is not 'fully' transformed when confronted and thus could be cured.)

    athies
  • _Connacht__Connacht_ Member Posts: 144
    edited September 10
    It's an explanation that in retrospect is fascinating, but the truth is that there is no hint anywhere that vampires actually killed Dynaheir. Nor Minsc makes any mention about anything related. He only says a generical "they killed her", because developers didn't care too much of what happened off screen to the party and how it got to Chateau Irenicus, rather they focused on what would have happened afterwards in the game.
    It's all speculation based upon a change in character stats that was made for gameplay purposes only: there aren't wandering gnolls anymore in BG2 (except a handful which by this point Minsc can thrash down alone anyway), while vampires become a common powerful foe. Changing the racial enemy helps that ranger to stay competitive among the various melee characters.

    While it could add a lot to the story, I don't think that Beamdog would be allowed to introduce dialogues and events that officially make vampires the slayers of Dynaheir. But a mod that explores this possibility could be interesting and offer many ideas to work on.

    Note also that in the EE the introduction of
    Hexxat creates an oversight (besides the others), since she is supposed to be a racial enemy of Minsc, who doesn't bat an eyelid.

    gorgonzolalunar
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