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A Message to Larian Studios: They Should ALTER The Work on Baldur's Gate 3

kingnightkingnight Member Posts: 54
edited February 2020 in Baldur's Gate III
I post my thread here because I can not register from their forums, my intention is to rally supporters to hold sway on their endeavor of ruining a 20 years old franchise, which is totally unacceptable!

Did you guys see the Baldur's Gate 3 game play demo on YouTube today, if not, go and do it now.

So what will we get in the future? It's not a 3rd title that has been long waited and expected by the community, but a Divinity 3 which just wrapped inside BG skin, will you guys accept that? The most significant feature of this so call "Baldur's Gate III" is that it is utterly turn-based combat system, which although having been predicted, but is still shocking by seeing it. I do not blame them using the turn-based system, and I do believe a good studio should always stick to what they are most capable of, but I also do believe that a great studio should at least show some respect to their predecessor, and by more to the massive long-term community who backing the franchise for over 20 years. But from what we get today, I have the prevision that the so call BG3 is not meaning for the BG community having been existing, but only meaning for the Divinity community of their own, and will you guys just accept that?

I wish the 3rd title should work just like the Pillars of Eternity 2 Dead Fire did, in which by choice the game can be played in full-turn-based system or real-time-turn-based system. I believe most of who diving into the BG franchise have their firm religion onto the real-time-turn-based system, it's not just the Baldur's Gate element, but also the D&D elelment, because there are so many titles following their steps: Icewind Dale, Planescape, Neverwinter, it has became a D&D code book, and by abandoning it, it's not a D&D game, not even mentioning a BG game at all. So why not Larian guys trying something new beyond their turn-based system? If they don't, then they shouldn't inherit the Baldur's Gate title, may be they should just create a new title of their own, just like the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, may be they should just call their game the Baldur's Gate: Illithid Invasion.

I believe no one ever questioning that the BG real-time-turn-based system defines the western PC RPG gaming style, it melt the gaps between action-style(which is fast paced and controlling) and the turn-base-style(which is sluggish and strategic) and bring them all together, and most importantly, we are REALLY REALLY REALLY enjoying it. So will you guys just sitting there and letting the Larian Studios ruining our dreams of two decades, and making one of the most influential gaming title into just another Divinity? Please don't let it happens, when there is still a chance. If you share my vision and have the consciousness, please back me up, support my thread, rally your friends, spread out our vision into other communities, and let the studio hear our voice.

I beg you guys!
Post edited by kingnight on
Arcalian
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Comments

  • themazingnessthemazingness Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 702
    edited February 2020
    Larian got the license.Their fans are mostly going to like the game. Their YouTube videos are getting mostly positive reaction (thumbs up and comments). I'm not defending Larian by any means. I'm not a fan, and I don't intend to be. The only reason I'll buy this game if I do is because it is D&D. But they aren't going to be changing direction. They're doing what they know, Divinity: Original Sin with D&D lore and rules and the Baldur's Gate name.
    peko
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    This will be as successful as the petition to reshoot the final season of Game of Thrones. Which was genuinely bad. It was still an insane proposition.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited February 2020
    Honestly this would be better on thei bg3 steam discussions. I can't imagine anyone from Larian is looking here.
    themazingness
  • kingnightkingnight Member Posts: 54
    DinoDin wrote: »
    You'll be happier about so much in life if you just stop trying to control everything. Let them make the game they want to make. There's not a lack of RTwP RPG games to play.

    Of course, there's not a lack of RTWP RPG games to play, but there's a lack of 8 generation D&D RTWP RPG game to play. Larian Studio can always make the game they wanted to make, but not by twisting a classical title. If they had used their own title, then there would be no argument at all. Just think about what is the intention that they using the BG title, isn't it that they want to attract the attention of the BG community, and they doing this by the means of twisting our will into one of their own, and as a fan you just let it happens without even a word? But by saying that, I even doubt if you are a fan at all.
    elminster wrote: »
    Honestly this would be better on thei bg3 steam discussions. I can't imagine anyone from Larian is looking here.

    I have already do that.
    megamike15AciferThacoBell
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    there is no point in fighitng with dinodin his mind is made up. and your entitled if you disagree with what larian is doing as they don't have to listen to you.
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,325
    DinoDin wrote: »
    kingnight wrote: »
    But by saying that, I even doubt if you are a fan at all.

    I think it's troubling that certain people here want to class certain fans as lesser than, merely because you have an emotional reaction to BG3. I'm sorry but your emotions about this series don't make you a better or more representative fan than me. And, I'm sorry but some perspective, these are just entertainment products. They should be enjoyed of course, but you should not identify this closely with products that you're merely a consumer of.

    I think it's good that you came out and stated this. I think a big unspoken assumption being made by folks arguing that Larian has betrayed the soul of the series is that certain consumers in the marketplace are more deserving than others. And that studios have some kind of obligation to cater to a smaller, but more vocal fanbase.

    Yes. Let's all try to keep things civil and refrain from personal attacks, please. The fact that we are here means that we are fans of the IE games. Just because some of us like or plan to get BG3 does not suddenly nullify the fact that we STILL love the old IE games.

    For what it's worth, I still think BG3 should not have adopted the name because it brings along certain expectations. From what I've seen so far, BG3 looks like it has potential to be a fun 5E D&D game, which is why I most likely will get it, but does it really have anything to do with the Bhaalspawn saga? No, because that story is closed. Finished. We might see some Easter Eggs and a cameo or two (maybe even Minsc as a party member, if I'm speculating), but basically BG3 should be considered a wholly separate game in a wholly separate series. Think of it that way, if it'll help.
    AciferStummvonBordwehrDinoDinbyrne20
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Here’s the thing;

    This game has the potential to be an amazing franchise by itself at this point. From what I have seen, this could have been the next great D&D franchise.

    Instead WotC attempted to piggyback off of nostalgia isolating a part of their fan base, and for what? What is gained by calling this BG3?
    KamigoroshiAciferBelgarathMTHThacoBell
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    edited February 2020
    Right. Judging from the revealed gameplay thus far, it would have made so much more sense for Larian to call it Yartar: the Arrival or something. That way there would have been no community backlash whatsoever.
    AciferBelgarathMTHThacoBellArcalian
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
    BallpointManDinoDin
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,325
    Dunno, listening to the fanbase did wonders to the recent Sonic movie. All because the initial outrage of their original blue hedgehog aberration was utterly abysmal on all accounts.

    And what a successful film it had become.

    Not to derail the thread, but as a Nintendo fan I never really followed the Sonic movie much. Is it actually a GOOD movie? (Which would be quite a shock because by and large nearly all video game to movie adaptations were either creative disasters or campy but somehow endearing.)
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    @Zaxares I'd say yes. Then again, I was an avid owner of the SEGA MEGADRIVE console in my heydays. :p
    However, Sonic the Hedgehog made over $200M in worldwide gross from box office since its release on February 13th. In comparison: that's half of what Detective Pikachu managed within about a year. It's user score on metacritic is currently 8.5 and it has a score 6,8 on imdb. It certainly saw success with Jim Carrey back in his goofey role of old.
    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Its still baffling to me that the license for BG was given to a company that has voiced such utter disdain for the franchise more than once.
    AciferArcalianBelgarathMTH
  • LottiLotti Member Posts: 66
    edited February 2020
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Its still baffling to me that the license for BG was given to a company that has voiced such utter disdain for the franchise more than once.

    I think Larian's vision on the Baldur's Gate heritage is rather similar to that of Wizards of the Coast: the old games were epic, but the world has moved on, D&D targets a changed demographic, and while nostalgia calls for doing the same thing over and over, that always has diminishing returns.
    mlneveseDinoDin
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,567
    jjstraka34 wrote: »

    There is a real sense among millions of people that they personally "own" these titles and properties because of what they meant to them.

    Hear hear brother! What upsets me about some of the arguments being made is that there's a second, more troubling assumption, that has nothing to do with me. It's that people think other people's work, other people's labor needs to be conscripted for their personal satisfaction. I'm sorry but the employees at Larian or even Disney, aren't our servants. They are employees at a company, most of them are not super wealthy either.

    They are allowed to do their jobs however they want. Look, if you want to boycott as a fan that's fine. For example, I liked the original Star Wars trilogy a lot. I've never seen Episode 2 and probably won't see the latest one ever either. I wouldn't say I'm boycotting anything, I just can't be motivated to see things that have been panned by people I trust. But I really wish some folks would understand that when they insist these things are "betrayals" or whatever, that the logical consequence of the argument they're making, is that people owe them their labor.
    DJKajuru
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,567
    Lotti wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Its still baffling to me that the license for BG was given to a company that has voiced such utter disdain for the franchise more than once.

    I think Larian's vision on the Baldur's Gate heritage is rather similar to that of Wizards of the Coast: the old games were epic, but the world has moved on, D&D targets a changed demographic, and while nostalgia calls for doing the same thing over and over, that always has diminishing returns.

    This is well said too. The thing is, a big chunk of even hardcore BG fans have moved on from video games in part or sometimes in whole. The age group old enough to have bought these games around release generally has less time for games, especially 100 hour RPG kinds. Larian has to make a product that's profitable, and so they have to respect the market.
    Shadowdemon
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,567
    edited March 2020
    Enilwyn wrote: »
    DinoDin wrote: »
    You'll be happier about so much in life if you just stop trying to control everything. Let them make the game they want to make. There's not a lack of RTwP RPG games to play.

    I just fired up PoE, which I could never get Into, and now I have a newfound appreciation for it.

    If you got unlucky and played it at launch and only then, I have to say it's a lot better now. The White March content especially shines. Makes me sad they scrapped so much of combat mechanics in Deadfire, because they had clearly learned alot, and had made dungeon crawling super great in WM.
    BallpointMan
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,567
    edited March 2020
    Enilwyn wrote: »

    Yes. Yes, they did. I honestly wasn't going to bring this up because I have a feeling people are still fired up about this, but it needs to be said in more detail and context.

    Everything is well said in this post.

    One thing that I think the Larian critics are relying on is some sense that their views are more representative of the BG fanbase or whatever. But there's no evidence for this. But as you point out, there is no consensus among this fanbase. It's a disparate fan base with different takes on what RPG features are good or necessary.

    Larian needs to make a game that will succeed in today's market. And, I'm sorry, but they're much more the experts on that subject than anyone here.
    BallpointManZaxaresRedRodent
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
    BallpointManEnilwyn
  • EnilwynEnilwyn Member Posts: 140
    edited March 2020
    chimaera wrote: »
    Enilwyn wrote: »
    And the community almost ate itself alive, "fans" took great liberty in s!@#ing on anything they could, the forums were infiltrated by all manner of trolls and wind up merchants, they questioned how the writers could have the AUDACITY to include an unthinkable scenario in a setting where literally anything is possible, many were banned and worse many were tainted by "the passions" of the community. The game was review bombed. It was an absolute s!@#show.

    I'd not go as far to say it's the entire BG community, but yep. Quite recently the Pathfinder devs announced that they would use add a turn based combat mode as an option (so you can choose between turn based and rtwp), things got terrible on their kickstarter very quickly too. People were complaining and dropping pledges in protest.

    I don't recall the old BG forums ever going off like that. Even when people disagreed on game likes and dislikes.

    Agree. It really begged the question, “are there really this many trolls among us?”

    It was more than new accounts. Long time posters here lost their rag over SoD.

    Funny bit about TB vs RTwP, PC mag did a survey and it was like 54 to 46% in favor of TB. There are loads of fans in both areas.

    Pokota
  • LottiLotti Member Posts: 66
    I don’t know how we keep old-school fans happy [laughs]. They’re hard to please. We noticed a lot of our player-base is people in their teens and 20s. But they keep on discovering it because for them it’s a big playground to play in. But the playground is possible because we’re working with systemics.

    https://www.geek.com/games/return-of-the-king-an-interview-with-baldurs-gate-iii-producer-david-walgrave-1819466/?utm_medium=socialflow&utm_source=twitter

    The producer. 'His player base', that are the players of Larian games.

    If PoE, Tyranny, and Deadfire could only manage to get diminishing returns on a medium value production, it is evident that high production values for Baldur's Gate 3, with 300 people working on it, need a much wider player base than the isometric rtwp diehards.

    Balder's Gate 3 will have to be different from BG2, otherwise it cannot return its investment.
    DinoDinEnilwyn
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