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Divinity: Original Sin Minimal and No Reload Thread (spoilers)



  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    It sounds like I might have a better chance to get into D:OS some day if I start with D:OS 2 first.

    Yes, I would recommend that. I plan to probably start a D:OS 2 run soon.

    A few screenshots I've promised:

    Stun-locking all the enemies in a secret ambush during the first turn.

    Pixel-hunting 'til I find the button(s):

    A fight against The Trife.

    Dealing with Leandra.

    The Void Dragon. Had to reload when lost one of my allies. On a second try, managed to get everyone saved, and got the good ending.

    A happy ending. Love is in the air!

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,581
    That void dragon looks like a cool final boss. Is it supposed to be like a constellation come to life? I see little gold spots in it that look like a constellation of a dragon.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    I'm attempting to do a party no-reload run through D:OS 2.

    Difficulty: Tactician, Honour mode

    Main char: Fane
    Finesse: 11 Wits: 13
    Scoundrel: 1 Polymorph: 1
    Skills: Backlash, Chloroform, Chicken Claw
    Civil Abilities: Persuasion 1
    Talent: Pet Pal


    I'm RPing Fane as what the tags presume: Scholar and Mystic. The focus is not on the "edge" part but more on finding knowledge about my people.

    Party members:

    Red Prince ("it's imperative that you make your way to the Friendly Arm Inn that I should meet with a Dreamer")

    Louse (the Mystic tag lets me understand her better than she thinks)

    Ifan (anyone who stands up against tyranny - just as my people did aeons ago - is my friend)

    Red Prince - Fighter, Louse - Enchanter, Ifan - Ranger. Barter on Red Prince, Loremaster and Thievery on Louse (I RP thievery on her as if the creature inside her controls her during those actions, while Fane is talking to them), Lucky Charm on Ifan.

    With 1 point in Thievery, we can get 2 free books from vendors. Not all vendors, ofc, but those we can trick while they're alone. This way, we got:

    - Mosquito Swarm & Raise Bloated Corpse - for Fane (on Lvl 2 I put one point into Necromancy)
    - Tentacle Lash & Bull Horns, Battering Ram & Crippling Blow - for Red Prince (on Lvl 2 I put one point into Polymorph)
    - Blinding Radiance & Shocking Touch - for Louse
    - First Aid & Pin Down - for Ifan

    We bought a Restoration skill book for all the money we had.

    The first fight, against Ancient Turtles: the key was to CC 2 of 3 turtles, or more, each turn.

    We reached Lvl 3 after the fight. Thievery got the 2nd pip, which means that from those vendors whom we haven't touched yet we can now get 3 skill books.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,581
    @JuliusBorisov , I'll be interested to see how this turns out. I'm wondering if it's possible to no-reload D:OS2, especially on Tactician difficulty. The runs I've watched on YouTube all save scum like crazy.

    I tried turning the slider up to Classic for the fight with that witch to free the frost dragon, and she and her cronies promptly handed me my behind. I turned the slider back to Explorer, and steamrolled the same fight.

    I'm also wondering if stealing all those skill books is required to be successful in a no-reload, which would make the game very roleplay unfriendly, in my opinion. One of the first things I noticed was that without stealing skill books, the enemies in even the early fights in classic mode had far superior spells and skills to my starting ones.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    Well, when you play with only one save (and the game automatically saves when any party member dies), you have to use whatever possible to win. However, it won't mean I will savescum, - just the opposite, actually. I prefer to plan in advance and get ready.

    When I first played on Tactician, I reloaded, ofc, but didn't steal anything even once. It's much later when I started doing that, - and you can only steal once per person. The fights during levels 1-4 are definitely winnable on Tactician even without extra skills, don't worry about that.

    One factor why I'm using stealing is because not many games actually allow that. There is no stealing in P:K or PoE, so this is the game I can do that. You can steal in BG2, and get powerful artefacts that way. Not much different to this system.

    Also, one note: when you play on Tactician, roleplay friendliness is not the main factor the game provides. The main factor, in that case, is challenge. If you follow, for eg. Alesia's reports about PoE - they won't be full of roleplaying, it will be a schedule of getting/buying items, fighting correct enemies at correct timings etc. I'm not saying the challenge means no roleplaying - I'm saying that it wouldn't be correct to evaluate if the game offers roleplay friendliness when someone plays on the maximum difficulty.

    And of course, if I do or don't something, it doesn't mean others should just repeat that.

    Fane. Part 2.

    One aspect I wanted to cover is the choices for talents:

    The Pawn for Fane - it is insanely helpful for a melee rogue, letting 1 free movement each turn
    Comeback Kid for Red Prince and Ifan - this talent is very useful, often being the decisive factor between losing or winning. It's just that Fane and Louse needed to take other talents on lvl 3 for a balanced game.
    All Skilled Up for Louse - basically, for 1 civil ability: as Louse is my Loremaster and Thievery expert, I needed to take this ASAP

    The crocodile battle. In order to win it reliably, I had to split the party and move 3 characters who had ranged attacks (under sneak) above the enemies, leaving Red Prince alone below. After initial turns by Fane and Ifan (high Wits allow it) all 3 crocodiles were disabled: sleeping, being a chicken, and knocked down by an arrow.

    The rest of the fight was spent in continued CC.

    The gloves of Teleportation open a lot of options, including getting access to a recipe of the resurrection scroll.

    Both the Arena fight and Griff provide enemies who have Lvl 3, so we challenged them.

    The Arena battle. The key here was to disable Gedeon for as many turns as possible, with Fane reaching up to the enemy mage. Fane actually died at the end of the fight when it already didn't matter (you don't have to revive characters - after the Arena they're raised automatically).

    You can see that Red Prince is actually a decent fellow when he's asking not to give up Stingtail. I got the Hero tag.

    The Griff battle. The key here is go through any of the 2 defences of Griff ASAP to disable him. Rain by Louse is a good solution when Griff turns invisible. Please also note that I try not to metagame too much by putting characters to better positions when the enemies I'm going to fight are still neutral (unlike the crocodiles, for example). Butter helped me as I promised her to meet in Arx. At one point, when Louse was sleeping, Red Prince had to hit her in melee to wake her up.

    Interesting that after the battle was won, much later, one of Griff's bandits - Waltz - returned to the spot (she had been walking around the camp) and attacked Butter. I saved my friend.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,581
    @JuliusBorisov , Wow, you're certainly off to a good start showing how a no-reload can be done, and also showing your mastery of tactics. Both the arena battle and the Griff battle were huge points of discouragement to me, but you breezed through them.

    I made it to the end of Act One on Explorer today, and I'll probably be taking a break from D:OS2 for a while to play easier games. I'm working on my paladin run of NWN2 currently.

    The intensity of strategic combat kind of wore me down over time, leaving me wanting a more relaxing crpg experience. But I'm glad that I played it enough that I can now deeply appreciate runs like yours, by better players than I am.

    Playing D:OS2 gives me a similar feeling to what I have when I go to and play a few matches of chess. There's intense concentration, a lot of losing but learning from those losses, and the fun of studying YouTube videos from chess masters trying to get better. But, the necessity of constant intense concentration combined with the need for flashes of creative insight in chess makes it mentally fatigue me really fast to keep playing for very long. I appreciate it deeply, but it's not something I enjoy playing for hours on end.

    It is becoming apparent that it's the same for me and D:OS games, both 1 and 2. Larian's style with turn-based combat and strategy being an integral part of everything they make is what makes me think of them as creating the crp equivalent of chess games.

    Out of curiosity, are you also a chess master in addition to being a strategic rpg master? You seem to think like a chess master, and to enjoy the same states of mind that chess enthusiasts enjoy.

    I'm really looking forward to seeing if you succeed like this with the battles against the witch who imprisoned the frost dragon, and especially with the final battle of Act One. I won that final battle today on Explorer difficulty, but I felt like it was only because I happened to level up near the end, restoring all our health when things were looking very grim. :)

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    edited March 25
    That's totally ok, especially since you spent 80+ hours straight in the game. I usually play about 1-2 hours then do some work, so this way I can really focus on a certain battle without being overwhelmed.

    And yes, you're correct that it resembles a tactical game. This is probably the biggest appeal of D:OS games for me, along with the story. I get a lot of "feels good" moments when enemies go down one by one as a result of well-coordinated actions of my party members.

    I don't play Chess much, - probably should have, though. ;)

    Fane. Part 3.

    The battle against the Houndmaster always gives me a scare: I remember how during my first playthroughs I usually lost the whole party here. The main task is to disable the Houndmaster himself. It's better to do via his Magic Defense. At the start of Turn 2, Fane sends him sleeping.

    A melee rogue is very versatile. When needed, I can take off one dagger (doesn't require any action points) and thus get access to knocking down. Will need to spend one action point later to equip the second dagger again, though. This is working wonders against enemy rangers (they usually have low physical defence).

    However, enemies have a big advantage in this battle, so I have to spend scrolls and other items. Fane used a Blindness scroll, Ifan - a Water Balloon (on shocked enemies to make them stunned). Coupled with Louse's casts, it let me control the battlefield.

    The variety of physical and magical abilities in the party lets me approach different enemies with different skills. Fane knocked down another enemy ranger, while Louse stunned a swordsman. Red Prince used a scroll of Electic Discharge to continue CC-ing.

    Shortly after the fight, we reached Lvl 4, and this was when I could diversify skills even more. The key to successful surviving, to me, is having at least 2 Fortify skills (innate, not from scrolls), and 2 Armour of Frost skills in the party. Not only these spells provide extra defence, they actually cure bad statuses.

    It means Red Prince put one point into Hydrosophist, while Fane put one point into Geomancer. Hydrosophist on Red Prince will let him cast Restoration in the future. Geomancer on Fane is also useful because of Poison Dart which can both harm enemies and cure Fane.

    Much later into the game, my characters will become more specialized in certain schools, but at the start, it's very important to get multiple protection skills on several party members for cross-protection. 2 party members are using shields, which provide insane (compared to not using shields) amounts of extra protection, it's especially visible during Act 1.

    Here is an ideal, in my opinion, skill distribution for Lvl 4 in my current party:

    As you can see, I prefer to have different attacks against both physical and magical defences, and a lot of buffing/protection skills. This will come useful in the future because you can mix certain schools, eg. Warfare and Hydrosophist provide a very handy skill (will explain later, when we get there). Ifan started as a Ranger (not Wayfarer) and came with 1 pip in Pyrokinetic, which provides Peace of Mind (a must-have buff), and later opens a way for neat combo Huntsman + Pyrokinetic skills. Polymorph provides such vital skills that I usually have it on everyone. So far, Fane has been using it for Chicken Claw, Red Prince - for Bull Horns (which give him the mobility to move around the battlefield).

    Note that I never used any build strategies or guides - this all comes as a result of experimentation and my own observations.

    (without buffs from items):
    Fane: Scoundrel 2, Polymorph 1, Necromancer 1, Geomancer 1. Finesse 14, Memory 13, Wits 13
    Red Prince: Warfare 2, Geomancer 1, Polymorph 1, Hydrosophist 1. Strength 14, Con 12, Memory 13
    Ifan: Huntsman 2, Pyrokinetic 1, Ranged 2. Finesse 14, Wits 15 (higher crit chance and search for hidden treasures)
    Louse: Aerotheurge 3, Hydrosophist 2. Int 15, Con 11 (needs it for shields), Memory 13

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,581
    edited March 25
    @JuliusBorisov , I'd give you both insightful and like for that post if I could. I like how you are offering some teaching on how to get better at the game.

    It sounds like one of my mistakes is thinking I should concentrate on building one or two skill schools for each party member early on, instead of spreading out over several schools, and splashing single points around enough to get fortify, restoration, magic armor, and clear mind on every party member.

    I know in the witch fight, she charmed my party leader after the only person who could cast clear mind had been killed, so I was screwed.

    I tend to think like a D&D player, that each party member should have a character class, but that doesn't really work in D:OS. It seems to be more about spreading all the skills out among the four characters in combinations that allow for lots of backup on important skills; that is, it's a beginner's mistake to only have one person on the team who can use a critical spell or skill, and there are way more "critical" skills among the first ranks of each school than in D&D.

    Or at least, all that is true on any difficulty higher than "Explorer".

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    edited March 25
    Well, from what I heard, online guides will tell you exactly to focus on 2, maximum 3 skill choices. I still don't have Pyrokinetic on anyone other than Ifan, so Peace of Mind is only available from him, - but you can have scrolls in your group, and each character will be able to use them. In the Houndmaster battle, we used scrolls of Electic Discharge, even those who don't have any pips in Aerotheurge. In the Arena battle, Ifan used the scroll of Fortify on Red Prince to stop the Decay status on him.

    If someone is charmed, you can charm them back with your own grenades of charm, arrows of charm, or the charm spell (available later).

    Warfare talent Rage can also cure Charm.

    There is a talent "Walk it off" which reduces all status durations by 1 turn.

    So, there are always multiple options to deal with the same threat.

    Fane. Part 4.

    Saving Paladin Cork. One of the safest ways to do that is usually teleporting Cork inside the building and making enemies lose their favourite positions and head into the building. However, I wanted to give them a fair fight.

    So the main thing was to let Ifan knock down Captain Tripple at the start of Turn 2. (one thing I haven't mentioned - I actually like Diablo-like loot system in these games and spend time between battles checking the vendors for new items; in Fort Joy you don't get many of them, but later in the game it's my favourite hobby; still, even in Fort Joy I can buy arrows of knockdown and different rings +1 Skill between battles).

    Fane then turned Captain Tripple into a chicken, and for the next 2 turns we could focus on other magisters.

    Fortify really helped to keep Cork alive.

    Elemental Arrowheads, the simplest spell from Huntsman, let Ifan "charge" his arrows with magic (oil in this case) - which helped get through the magic defence of enemy swordsman.

    Bull Horns and Battering Ram let Red Prince move through the battlefield quickly, knocking down potential threats to Cork.

    Once Captain Tripple was finished and Louse cleared magic armour of swordsmen, the battle was basically won.

    But not always everything goes according to the plan, I too make mistakes. The battle against undead guardians usually is either very easy or very difficult for my parties. This time, it was difficult. These folks start with such a great advantage (again, no meta play from me, we're starting below, in the water, against a cryomancer). The enemies stand higher, have better visibility and are not grouped in one place.

    Fane was finished during Turn 1. Then we revived him, and he was finished again in Turn 2. I spent 3 (!) more Resurrection scrolls on Fane during this fight - but it was worth it - since enemies focused on attacking him and thus the rest of the party slowly went through enemies' defences. Before one final resurrection, Fane actually turned the tides of this battle: chicken form and knock down.

    How did I survive? Arrows of knockdown and the Arrow Recovery talent on Ifan.

    A short moment of triumph for Fane.

    All these sacrifices saved us time and finally, Louse shone (on top of her magic attacks, regeneration is not healthy for the undead).

    So, I had to spend 5 scrolls of Resurrection in one battle. But Louse then stole 3 scrolls from Nebora and we found one in the area with frogs. I also crafted one scroll thanks to the recipe. Thus, the status quo was restored.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    Fane. Part 5. Fort Joy cleared.

    The battle against Kniles the Flenser went much smoother. During the first turn, Kniles turned Ifan into a chicken. Fane responded similarly.

    See that yellow-green colour on the enemy chicken? That's Acid - a great help against enemies' physical armor. It comes from the first rare item I found, Rapscalpel.

    While all the meat golems and silents monks were closing in on our party, we finished Kniles.

    The subsequent fight wasn't difficult - things can only go bad here if you let Kniles live and use his charming grenades.

    You can notice new skills: indeed, everyone reached Lvl 5. Red Prince got Rage, Fane got Spread Your Wings, Ifan got Haste (this skill really shines on Fane; Ifan moves first, casts Haste on Fane; Fane gets free +1 action points during the first 2 vital rounds of every fight), and Louse got Winter Blast and Ice Fan.

    Just as with Paladin Cork, you can approach High Judge Orivand much more cautiously, waiting till enemies will reach you in another room. But I again decided to play more open and forced myself straight to the judge.

    That said, it seemed fitting to teleport Orivand to the exact place where he tortured a poor elf. Both Ifan and Louse got higher ground bonuses against 2 swordsmen and the judge below.

    Red Prince and Fane ruled against 2 enemy mages (Fane actually went to 0 HPs but that happens when enemies concentrate on one party member). Between numerous knockdowns, they couldn't really threat in this battle.

    Attacking from a higher ground is so sweet. AOE effects were perfect for it (including special arrows).

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,581
    Congratulations on another masterful play session. :)

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    Thanks! I'm happy to know these reports matter.

    I usually give myself an extra task of saving Gawin against 10 enemies at the Docks. It doesn't lead to anything special (no reward or extra XP), but it feels like the right thing to do. It's too bad Gawin will automatically die in the swamp. For this fight, I didn't use anything special, just careful spending of CC moves over the course of many turns (eg. Battering Ram against 4 monks to knockdown all of them).

    After leaving Fort Joy, we reached Lvl 6. I like how the game lets you explore the potential ambush place and see the enemy from a distance.

    Since we just hit Lvl 6 ourselves, it seemed dangerous to try and tackle the boss before reaching the Seekers camp and getting new skills. After buying a few books, we returned and opened the fight just in front of the Voidwoken Deep-Dweller.

    I could have explored the swamp more before the fight but the thing here is that the first time I played D:OS 2 I stumbled across this ambush while still early Lvl 6, and thus I consider that a challenge to tackle the Dweller ambush that early (before the collars are removed and everyone can use the source magic and equip necklaces).

    Ifan had 6 knockdown arrows at the start of the fight. He had 0 at the end of it. These arrows allowed me to disable 2 enemy casters each turn. Fane also contributed: the enemy archer was knocked down as well.

    Louse could freeze one of the swordsmen. The general key is to go through the defence during your turn 1 and stop the enemy not allowing him doing anything.

    We managed to survive the first onslaught of the Dweller and went through all its Physical defence till Red Prince's second turn.

    One enemy swordsmen reached our place, Louse could control them in close range. Of course, she at first increased her own Magic defence not to suffer from her own spells.

    At one moment of the fight, Red Prince rolled a 1, - he became Frozen because of the cursed Ice created by the Dweller. It didn't stop us from finishing the Dweller, though.

    Turned out, the books we bought before the fight, weren't 100% needed: I probably used only Cloak and Dagger and Medusa Head in this fight (from the new skills).

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    edited March 31
    Fane. Part 7.

    Red Prince is very down-to-earth if you get to know him better:

    We reached Lvl 7 after exploring the Armoury. It was time for cross-skill books. Merging Huntsman and Pyrokinetic books provides a fire trap skill. Merging Warfare and Hydrosophist books provides a healing skill.

    It was also time for collar removal and finally using the Lucky charm skill properly. With 2 items equipped (which I have to swap), Ifan now provides 5 in Lucky Charm. That's enough to find epic - purple - items, which is very Diablo-esque. Some good items are starting to arrive:

    I rushed to the Radeka fight because, similar to the Deep-Dweller, I try to face her as soon as possible, not after getting all the items of the appropriate level. In my opinion, just like with Kniles, you have to finish the boss as quick as possible, leaving the minions. She has quite the defences, though.

    So for the first time in our battles, we postponed the 1st turns of Fane and Ifan so that Louse could teleport the witch closer.

    We survived the initial round of minion attacks. Now, Red Prince, Fane and Ifan could disable her for the start of turn 2.

    Arrows of knockdown (which I had 3 for this fight) and Louse's spells kept us safe while Fane and Red Prince concentrated on killing the chicken.

    Ifan inflicted a finishing blow.

    A conscious decision to focus so heavily on Radeka had its consequences. Fane and Louse then went down because of harsh attacks by Carrion Beatles and the Decoy effect. Ifan resisted death thanks to his talent.

    But I didn't panic. Ifan turned invisible thanks to Chameleon Cloak, while Red Prince postponed his turn to raise Fane. Note how Medusa's Head kept one of the beatles petrified just because the lizard stayed close.

    Once Fane re-entered the fight, it was basically over for the enemies.

    Also, a special dialogue for Fane explaining his story:


  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,581
    @JuliusBorisov , Congratulations on the Radeska fight. I like your sharing some of the character dialogues, too, since you're using characters I didn't use.

    How are you getting enemy armors down so quickly so you can CC? You keep mentioning that you get strong enemies controlled almost immediately in the fights.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    edited March 31
    Fane has Finesse 20 and Wits 14 (with items), Scoundrel 5, Crit Chance 9%, Damage 30-36.
    Backstab is a 100% chance to crit (so the damage is doubled).

    Ifan has Finesse 19 and Wits 16, Ranged 4, Crit Chance 20% (!), Damage 41-46
    When you use the higher ground, you inflict more damage (Huntsman 4 = +20% damage).

    I make sure Fane has the highest initiative in my group, followed by Ifan (I have to put +Initiative gear on Fane because his Wits is lower than Ifan's Wits).

    Fane has the Adrenaline skill (which allows him +2 bonus action points during the turn (he gets -2 action points the next turn).

    Haste cast by Ifan can give Fane another +1 action point for 2 turns.

    I also specialized Louse into magic damage dealer:

    Intelligence 19, Hydrosophist and Aerotheurge both 6.

    So her Winterblast does 46-51 water damage, followed by 38-42 air damage from Electric Discharge. It's usually enough to block a minor enemy, or several of them if they stand next to each other.

    Red Prince can use Tentacle Lash for 53-59 physical damage, or Medusa Head for ~35 magic damage. Red prince also can throw Bouncing Shield (which scales on the shield level - so make sure to always use the shield with the biggest physical armor).

    Fane can Poison Dart for 25-27 poison damage, Chlorophorm for 33-36 magic damage if I need more magic damage than physical damage during the first turn. Ifan can use elemental arrows (poison, fire, shocking, etc) if I need to add magic damage.

    Teleport by Louse inflicts physical damage when you use it.

    Piece of Mind and different food can provide +Str/Dex (and in the future +Int) boosts. Encourage (which 2 of my characters have) also does that.

    As you can see, Radeka has 171 physical defence and 245 magic defence. I figured I should go through physical here (because 171 is lower than 245).

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,581
    I think my love of roleplaying lawful good is where I get into trouble with this game. See, most of what you just described strikes me as kind of evil - poison, backstabbing, etc. Also, you stole a lot of the skill books you used to get all those abilities. I have a feeling if I were watching this run as a Let's Play video, I'd be shaking my head, clucking my tongue, and thinking "evil, evil, evil." "Chaotic", at best.

    Also, your means to success (and in fairness, everyone's who succeeds at the game on tactician difficulty), seems really power-gamey to me.

    And it seems like all my least favorite skill schools - Rogue, Necromancy, and Polymorph - are absolutely required or your party will be defeated often.

    I think it was you who pointed out the counterpoint that roleplaying isn't really the point on tactician difficulty, though. A person selects that difficulty when they *want* to have their powergaming and strategic skill tested.

    I really respect your success so far, just as when you publish a BG no-reload. I'm still rooting for you. :)

    However, the game reflects a design philosophy that worries me that BG3 will have exactly this same tone. Evil is rewarded, stealing is rewarded, dark and edgy are rewarded, being good, especially lawful good, is punished.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    Now you're challenging me to try a completely different approach the next time I play it. :wink:

    It was very hard for me to roleplay evil in BG, but that was a useful experience because I started to question every spell: whether it's evil or not. The consensus in that thread was that not only poison or similar spells can be evil: fire can be evil, lightning can be evil, - it's the intent behind the spell use that matters.

    Rogues can be neutral in D&D. Backstabbing is just my favourite style of combat, I like F/T in BG, I like Scoundrel skills in D:OS. Necromancy is only on Fane at the moment, and only for 3 skills (so far) - it's quite fitting an undead, don't you think? :wink:

    Polymorph - I didn't think the abilities to get bull horns or a medusa head, or wings were evil, but probably they're close to evil than to good in the alignment spectre.

    The skills I use are dictated by the decision to play Tactician, and play with this party approach. I could go without a backstabber, for example, and pick a summoner instead. Etc.

    If you look at BG, being lawful good will be punished just in the same way: you'll miss on tons of items. The whole picking locks/looting houses aspect won't be available. Again, it all comes down to the question whether you consider (I know YOU do) stealing evil. I think Imoen and Safana can perfectly steal and not feel evil at all.

    Btw, what should I do once (I hope) I finish Act 1 not to spoil you? I spoilt you about D:OS 1 but you didn't like that game.

    I'm playing right now as Fane, one of the only few "eternal" left in the world. I'm undead and lost everything, I want knowledge. I think I should use what I can to solve issues. It doesn't mean I kill magisters on the first sight. I saved a paladin. I saved a magister who was being tortured. I killed Griff and helped elves.

    Are battle/combat abilities that integral to RPing in quests, dialogues and choices? In the evil playthrough, I thought about certain spells, yes, but that was because I tried to follow the "darkest" path. In case you're not following the noblest path, you - I'm certain about that - should include "grey" skills into the game. But that's up to the player, ofc.

    As for BG3, they already said they focus on the player agenda and immersing yourself in the world. Since there is no paladin class in D:OS but there is in D&D, BG3 will be different.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,581
    Don't worry about spoilers. Just post in whatever way you find engaging and that you will enjoy going back to and reading again for yourself. I'm not worried too much about getting spoiled on D:OS, as I'm taking a break from it after Act One, and I don't know when I'll want to play again.

    It turns out I have only a short time I can stay engaged in intense strategic turn-based combat games before I want to play something else that is more relaxing to me. Right now I'm running a cleric through NWN2, which is a very easy game combat-wise. I'm thinking about doing some more NWN1 after that, maybe Aielund Saga, or giving Darkness over Daggerford another go.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    We're slowly getting to the Alexander fight. While in the Gargoyle's Maze, we reached Lvl 8. It was a good time to re-evaluate all the skills and decide what we want to spend them into.

    Louse got Elemental Affinity talent, which lowers the action point cost of spells by 1 while standing in a surface of the same element. Now she can start any combat with Rain (only 1 ability point cost), and her otherwise costly Hydrosophist attacks will be cheaper (2->1 and 3->2 action points are massive improvements).

    Red Prince got Living Armour talent, which adds 35% of all healing he receives from any source to his Magic Armour. That's a great way to keep a tank alive. Warfare/STR specialists usually have gear which focuses on Physical Armour, so anything boosting their Magic Armour regeneration is very welcome.

    Ifan got Elemental Ranger talent, which inflicts bonus elemental damage depending on the surface the target is standing in. A very cool way to boost his damage, considering our targets are often standing in the water/electric clouds.

    Fane got Comeback Kid talent. I think Act 1 so far has shown he, being undead and not getting healing from regeneration, needs any survival boost he can get.

    Now was the time to merge books of different skills. Fane dropped his 2 necromancer spells for:

    Corrosive Touch (only 1 ability point cost): Geomancer + Necromancer, it destroys physical damage and sets Acid status on the target;
    Venom Coating (again, only 1 ability point cost): Geomancer + Scoundrel, it coats weapons with poison for 2 turns for extra damage.

    Red Prince now has Impalement and Poison Dart spells - the former for setting a Crippled status (this spell, while inflicting Magic damage, still goes through Physical Armour for the crippled status), the latter for healing Fane when needed.

    Louse now has our first great Source spell: Chain Lightning - already inflicting 82-90 air damage on 8 targets. She can cast it only once per battle, but it's massive.

    The well in the maze is a savescummers' dream. It can provide 6 epic belts/rings, which properties differ every time you reload. It reminds me of looting dragons and titans in M&M VII, to be frank.

    Since this is a no-reload run, I haven't got very cool items from the well, but they'll still do.

    Gratiana reminded us about the times when Lucius and Anni had defeated mighty Braccus Rex:

    During a short time Sebille was in our party, she opened up on her difficult personality. From those playthroughs I had her, I know you can actually make her the woman she longs to be, a good person.


  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,620
    edited April 3
    Fane. Part 9. Leaving the island.

    I decided to approach the fight fairly, - usually, I enter it from one of the fortress's walls so that I could have a higher ground advantage. However, approaching it straight from the entrance is what the majority of new players would do, so no metagaming knowledge here to ease the fight. I wanted to test this party. I wanted to see my tank surviving the largest of attacks. I wanted my characters to use maximum they had.

    The fun begins!

    Fane concentrated all he had on the nearest Gheist. Result: no threats of insane enemy backstabs, only chickens.

    Louse's magic and Ifan's special Static cloud arrow meant one of the magisters (the assassin) got stunned.

    Ifan then teleported as high as he could, to stay closer to the metamorph magister.

    Red Prince spent the first round restoring Louse's physical damage (after heavy attacks by the enemy swordsman and archer).

    At the start of turn 2, one of the enemy swordsmen had low magic armour. Fane ate an elven stew to up his Finesse for a guaranteed Sleeping effect on the enemy.

    Louse had to use Teleport to bring the enemy archer down (from one of the top places he stood at), closer to Red Prince.

    See an insane +50% bonus Ifan got from his location towards those poor magisters.

    His second shot, though, was aimed at the metamorph magister. A critical hit, and 90% of her physical armour went away in one shot.

    Red Prince knocked down the swordsman and archer who stood next to each other.

    The metamorph magister shocked Ifan. Then the big worm appeared.

    It was a dangerous situation for Ifan, so Fane had to move quick and rescue his friend. 1 free movement and wings helped. In one turn, Fane not only reached the magister, he also helped Ifan with Magic Shell and Fortify (the shell was from a scroll). Having taken one dagger off, Fane knocked down the magister.

    Since a few magisters reacted to the worm, Louse had a good opportunity to first freeze one of them and then cast Evasion on herself. Who knew where the worm would have moved next?

    Red Prince used Impalement and then Battering Ram.

    Turned out, Louse knew the worm would strike there. Even while it didn't miss, armours of Red Prince and Louse saved them (see how the worm's damage goes straight through the armours, but they are not getting knocked down). The worm finished the unlucky assassin who previously had been knocked down by our lizard.

    Ifan used a Knockdown Arrow on the metamorph magister. The previous round by Fane (when he had saved Ifan) turned useful.

    Louse made sure she restored as much health as she could. Same with Red Prince. Note how just by restoring vitality he now restores magic defence as well. Then the lizard became a medusa, thus turning the swordsman to stone and letting Louse escape any potential attacks of opportunity in the future.

    Earth Corruption - a massive concentrated missile attack by the worm killed Ifan.

    Louse finally got a chance to try our mega source attack - Chain Lightning (on the worm, Alexander, and a few others).

    Red Prince finally finished the escaped archer (thanks, shield throwing). Then he continued to heal himself (and upping the magic armour). Our tank stood next to the dangerous worm, next to Alexander, and still was nearly fully uninjured.

    It was enough to survive another worm attack. One of the enemies, however, didn't survive it.

    Since the metamorph magister returned to the fight after our previous disablers, and there was no Ifan there, Fane quickly returned to her (yes, the wings really add mobility - during the previous round he moved to the Red Prince group to help against the archer in 1 action point). Now it required 2 action points to get to the metamorph, and another 2 action points to turn her into a chicken. We didn't need an enemy shooting from the high ground. We also needed someone to raise Ifan, and for that Fane had to be close.

    Louse, who now was safe, could cast freely.

    Note how now we acted through magic defence against the strongest of enemies we faced (while all the previous killing was done through physical defense by Fane and Ifan). This is why a party with both physical and magic attacks are so fun to play, in my opinion.

    The worm now used Earth Corruption on Alexander, and Fane got a perfect opportunity to raise Ifan. Ifan then teleported closer to Louse so that she could heal/shell him.

    Fane finally finished the metamorph.

    Now when both Alexander and the worm were exposed to magic attacks, they didn't last long. Ifan used Fire arrows, and it was he who completed his own contract.

    The worm used Worm Mucus on the ground but Red Prince still stood still.

    Louse killed the voidwoken and ended the fight.

    What is sweeter than this fight - it's Ifan's bear hug!

    We arrived as Sourcerers, we now leave as Godwoken.

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