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suggestions/ tips for main character

Hi all,

I just finished a BG2 SAO + TOB run with my evil party:

Main: Kensai/Mage
Korgan
Edwin
Hexxat
Dorn later someone else in TOB
Viconia

Now i kwant to do the opposite. I want a good/neutral aligned party. But i dont know what my main should be.
I want to have the follopwing npc's in the party:

Keldorn
Jaheira
Anomen

Maybe ad a custom multi fighter thief (not my main)

Sixth spot is open for quest.

My question is what can I make my main. Obviously it seems like it should be a mage of some sort to blance the party. But I dont know if i want to do another run with a fighter mage style main.

Or i could fill my sixth spot with Nalia and make her a sorceror. that leaves some more options for my main.

What would you suggest? I would prefer a multiclass, I dual classed the previous runs and i want some change.

Thanks in advance.

JuliusBorisov
«1

Comments

  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    Hi! I don't know if you played this characters before (Keldorn, Anomen, Jaheira), but they are not really "good", they are more of being righteous or just and often in tedious or annoying manner.
    Really good guys are Aerie, Minsc, Mazzy, Nalia, Neera. They are good from their heart, and not because of the nature's balance or somebody's principles/faith.

    So while it's totally fine to have one of the "righteous" guys in good party (their banter with others will only add to immersion), if you want to gather all party of them, they can really annoy you.

    Just FYI.

    gorgonzola
  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    As for the main character and lack of wish to play another fighter/mage... most probably your kensai/mage was without fighter HLA, and they are big part of feeling "powerful fighter".
    I may recommend FMT with Carsomyr and Human Flesh+5 as true power of good. When you have permanent 100% MR and by activating one button your main character who can't be easily stripped of protections/buffs starts shredding through all mages ignoring everything with exception of PfMW.. it really feels "good" :)

  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    Yeah you are right, i meant righteous indeed. I dont mind the annoying banter. It gives some extra immersion. PS Rocking the human flesh does seem really evil :smiley:

    I can go two routes with this:

    Righteous:
    Keldorn
    Jaheira
    Anomen

    Good:
    Minsc
    Aerie
    Mazzy

    Not a fan of Neera's wild magic. One time she evaporated my entire gold collection :smile:
    I never finished a game with Aerie. I know she can be OP in the late game but I never experienced her as OP, more the opposite. She always died instantly in many fights. Maybe I should give her another try.

    Still debating which route to take, but played the good party the least so maybe a welcome change.
    But to do the good party i need extra divine and arcane power and a thief.
    I could use Nalia for arcane and thief.
    Maybe PC as a Fighter-Cleric Multi? That would leave me with an open spot for quests.

    But how to spec the NPC's?

  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    About Aerie in the early stage of the game it heavily depends on game version and mods. If your SCS doesn't push Robe of Vecna, Vhailor's helm and Cloak of Mirroring to ToB (it is configurable), then Aerie can use them and will be best mage in your group before your single-class mages gain access to lvl 7-8 spells + she will cast priest spells much faster and Cloak of Mirroring covers Aerie weakness to Abi-Dalzim's, Skull Traps and all aoes.
    Aside from those items Aerie can put bless+chant in sequencer right from the start and use it instantly on herself when group comes close to enemies... Also she has wisdom 16 which allows her to literally spam Limited Wishes early (1 scroll Adventurer mart, 1 scroll in Spellhold, 1 scroll sold by duergars and 1 scroll from Dietrix in Underdark = 4 Limited Wishes per PI/Simulacrum cast) and restore spells to entire group, and still have 2 free slots for other scrolls/consumables. Technically endless supply of stoneskins, DUHMs, skeletons, skull traps etc. And after LW engage in fight and use Time stop->3x Abi-Dalzim/Wail of Banshees from chapter 5, and all of that in one clone usage. Other mages can do it too, but Aerie does it in most efficient and convenient way (you don't need to waste slot+round with wisdom potion).
    I'd say that main Aerie problem is that she can't be in same group with Korgan in SoA, so if your main is not cleric/mage and you don't plan to recruit Korgan, then Aerie will be more useful then Anomen.
    She is also susceptible to Power Words, but Chaotic Commands+Death Ward or Shield of Harmony + 61 HP remove that threat entirely.

    kaja8gorgonzola
  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    edited May 11
    Your idea about Fighter-Cleric (probably dwarf) sounds good to have different experience to kensai/mage. Maybe also ranger-cleric (with .ini fix) worth considering (then you can drop Jaheira and have more XP or quest slots).
    Something like Fighter-Cleric + Keldorn + Mazzy/Minsc/Jaheira + Aerie + Nalia looks good to me and you have 1 free slots for questers.

    kaja8
  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    Thanks for your answer. Seems the good party is more and more appealing.

    No i got the SCS configured only for smarter AI and the option that lets other enemy's rush in when I fight at a location. And some tweaks for inventory management like unlimited stacking and stuff.

    I could dual wield Minsc with katana and scimitar and bastard swords, mazzy with long swords and bows.
    My PC could do hammers and flails.
    Aerie would be shield and sling.

    That leaves nalia who could do crossbow or throwing dagger?

    Am I leaving out some great weapons? I know i skipped halberts and two handed swords. Maybe axes?

  • AerieAerie Member Posts: 145
    DeeKayNL wrote: »
    Yeah you are right, i meant righteous indeed. I dont mind the annoying banter. It gives some extra immersion. PS Rocking the human flesh does seem really evil :smiley:

    I can go two routes with this:

    Righteous:
    Keldorn
    Jaheira
    Anomen

    Good:
    Minsc
    Aerie
    Mazzy

    Not a fan of Neera's wild magic. One time she evaporated my entire gold collection :smile:
    I never finished a game with Aerie. I know she can be OP in the late game but I never experienced her as OP, more the opposite. She always died instantly in many fights. Maybe I should give her another try.

    Still debating which route to take, but played the good party the least so maybe a welcome change.
    But to do the good party i need extra divine and arcane power and a thief.
    I could use Nalia for arcane and thief.
    Maybe PC as a Fighter-Cleric Multi? That would leave me with an open spot for quests.

    But how to spec the NPC's?

    Yeah you should give me another try, I'm the best party member in the entire game. Second to none, and also did I mention super cool?

    As for your party, Jaheira seems to fit as a replacement cleric, you also have Anomen so you are very good there. No need for another cleric. You do seem to need a mage in your party maybe Nalia as you said? She can also fit as a thief.

    MartinW
  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    You probably want Kundane to off-hand for Mazzy for extra APR.
    For Aerie yes, shield of harmony+sling of Everard are good and she can use them even when her strength buffs are down.
    Nalia will be fine with firetooth/boomerang.
    About axes, yes, Axe of Unyielding is just crazy good (both upgraded and not upgraded), so maybe Minsc can use it later. 2H-swords - Minsc is specialized in them, so you can probably go with Lilarcor->SilverSword depending on situation.. also Minsc can use Mace of Disruption and Jerrod's Mace (specialized in them in BG2 too).
    There is OP halberd very late in ToB, but Minsc and Mazzy both will have GWW and base thaco 0, so will be able to use it without even being proficient.

    gorgonzola
  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    MartinW wrote: »
    Your idea about Fighter-Cleric (probably dwarf) sounds good to have different experience to kensai/mage. Maybe also ranger-cleric (with .ini fix) worth considering (then you can drop Jaheira and have more XP or quest slots).
    Something like Fighter-Cleric + Keldorn + Mazzy/Minsc/Jaheira + Aerie + Nalia looks good to me and you have 1 free slots for questers.

    I totally missed this reaction. This party seems quite nice.
    Still not sure about the last slot. Either Mazzy, Minsc or Jaheira.
    Minsc seems the weakest but with his 2 proficiencies per weapon seems ideal for rocking multiple type of weapons.

  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    Aerie wrote: »
    DeeKayNL wrote: »
    Yeah you are right, i meant righteous indeed. I dont mind the annoying banter. It gives some extra immersion. PS Rocking the human flesh does seem really evil :smiley:

    I can go two routes with this:

    Righteous:
    Keldorn
    Jaheira
    Anomen

    Good:
    Minsc
    Aerie
    Mazzy

    Not a fan of Neera's wild magic. One time she evaporated my entire gold collection :smile:
    I never finished a game with Aerie. I know she can be OP in the late game but I never experienced her as OP, more the opposite. She always died instantly in many fights. Maybe I should give her another try.

    Still debating which route to take, but played the good party the least so maybe a welcome change.
    But to do the good party i need extra divine and arcane power and a thief.
    I could use Nalia for arcane and thief.
    Maybe PC as a Fighter-Cleric Multi? That would leave me with an open spot for quests.

    But how to spec the NPC's?

    Yeah you should give me another try, I'm the best party member in the entire game. Second to none, and also did I mention super cool?

    As for your party, Jaheira seems to fit as a replacement cleric, you also have Anomen so you are very good there. No need for another cleric. You do seem to need a mage in your party maybe Nalia as you said? She can also fit as a thief.

    Aerie is certainly gonna be in the party.... the rest still unsure. debating who to take and which weeapons i can use. I really would love to be able to do longswords and katana's and scimitars this run.

    Previous run I had hammers, axes and halberts as weapons.

  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    edited May 12
    I got it.

    I am gonna run with the following:

    PC Fighter-Cleric multi... rocking the hammers and flails.
    Keldorn: Carsomyr. Must say I almost never did a run where I could use the Carsomyr. Last time with hexxat but that doesnt count.
    Aerie: gear as suggested above
    Nalia: for now bow but later crossbow. She is the least fav in the group but i need arcane and a thief so..
    Mazzy: Thinking about changing some pips with EEKEEPER. Not sure If she will have enough pips to distribute if I just pick her up early. Really want to do longswords or scimitar and katana. Maybe later some in Axe?
    Free Spot: NPC's for quests.

    What do you think?

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,621
    edited May 12
    DeeKayNL wrote: »
    Not a fan of Neera's wild magic. One time she evaporated my entire gold collection :smile:
    this is completely not an issue as long as you
    1. spend the money you get as soon as possible to buy useful stuff
    2. put the valuable items you loot or find and that you don't plan to use in some container
    3. put every valuable gem in a gem bag and if you don't plan to use them to learn spells or to cast from quick slot every valuable scroll in an scroll bag
    4. when you need money to pay something you sell something form points 2 and 3
    5. before ending soa you put all your valuable items in some WK container, so they will be available also in tob

    this way if some money evaporates for a surge it is only a very little amount, even if it happens in the underdark or at the beginning of tob, when you have no access to your WK container, the gem bag filled with diamonds, rogue stones and similar will provide you the needed cash, let's say to buy expensive scrolls at the beginning of tob from the guy in saradush.

    the real problem whit bad surges is for other surges, but it can be greatly mitigated if a wild mage NEVER cast spells on the party, cast spells on self ONLY if is really needed, is better to risk a surge then to die because you don't have a stoneskin on SI on, and as soon as is possible casts spells on the enemies ONLY by the PI clone.
    that way i never had to reload using neera, even if from the moment that she can cast lev 7 spells i abuse of the dwehomers in any way i can, having her cast many ADHW in chap 2 and later using combos like 6 wail of the banshee, imprisonment, level drain or other in a row before actually having the clone cast improved alacrity and actually using the not lev 1 spells it has memorized.
    if the PI or the enemy is transformed in a bunny or hit by a cow it is not a problem at all, if it happens with the real neera or a party member she is trying to buff it can be worst then loosing money, as can mean to loose the battle or the life.

    neera is super powerful, no other npc or enemy boss match her power, as long as you use the proper tactics, avoid the risky ones and have an other arcane caster to buff and protect the party.
    but nalia/imoen have plenty of power as mages in an easier way, no need to transform them in sorcerer, and can deal with doors and traps as long as you don't mind to swap rings.
    DeeKayNL wrote: »
    I never finished a game with Aerie. I know she can be OP in the late game but I never experienced her as OP, more the opposite. She always died instantly in many fights. Maybe I should give her another try.
    @MartinW told a lot about aerie, but as there is a dedicated topic where different players share their own power uses of her, that is so versatile to cover different roles at will, i link it to you
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47354/superaerie-power-tactics-for-the-c-m-spoilers

    DeeKayNL wrote: »

    PC Fighter-Cleric multi... rocking the hammers and flails.
    Keldorn: Carsomyr. Must say I almost never did a run where I could use the Carsomyr. Last time with hexxat but that doesnt count.
    Aerie: gear as suggested above
    Nalia: for now bow but later crossbow. She is the least fav in the group but i need arcane and a thief so..
    Mazzy: Thinking about changing some pips with EEKEEPER. Not sure If she will have enough pips to distribute if I just pick her up early. Really want to do longswords or scimitar and katana. Maybe later some in Axe?
    Free Spot: NPC's for quests.

    What do you think?
    good strong party.
    about the weapons
    aerie is deadly with enchanted sling and bullets as long as she buffs herself as the bonus damage from launcher and bullet enchantment and the +14 from str stack, end game she hits for 27 or 28 dmg/hit.
    but buffed, DW 2 good blunt weapons, with her simulacrum DW BBoD and FoA that help her is something to be seen, remember that she can go mlee when she wants as she has some levels more then at the start, tanking better then a fighter as she has arcane spells to do it, doing her good damage and being protected from be debuffed, while the enemies can debuff the FC charname all day long in scs

    nalia, as long as you improve her str, the lev 2 mage spell last quite long and is a good starting point, the returning daggers are better, same apr then a bow, but much more dmg output. later, or even sooner for the enemies with good ac, sling is better, fewer apr but better thac0, to have +4-5 slings in soa is not a big problem and there is also plenty of enchanted bullets, and good damage output for the stacked damages.
    i find that with nalia the bow is only worth to spam elemental or special arrows to disrupt, but not very effective to do damage, but anyway to do ranged damage is not her main task and if she has to do it MMM are much better.

    mazzy, short or long sword (changing pips with EEkeeper) and short bow, she should reach GM in both and it is 10 pips of the total 17 a fighter can get, and of the 7 spared 3 are gotten at more then 6Mxp...
    so i would say to work towards 3 DW pips, getting at least 2 soon, and possibly a pip in hammer.
    Why? crom. as both charname and aerie can get their str to 25 with self buffs what is the point of giving to them that hammer? let mazzy equip it OH and with her high MH apr (GM+lev13) or GWW she will be the ultimate damage dealer hitting for 8 (improved hasted) or 10 (GWW) apr, with GM and 25 str damage bonus.
    there are not enough pips to let her reach GM in swords, bows and axes if not for the last couple of tob battles and with only 2 pips in dw, imo not worth to spend pips in axe.

    charaname should have not problem in reaching 25 str with righteous magic and duhm, starting from a good belt and with the special cleric ring late game with duhm alone.

    EDIT: maybe for mazzy 5 apr improved hasted in scs, not sure if it is spell revision or scs that changes the improved haste behavior.
    i am not a big fan of both the mods or any mod that changes the spell system and is ages i don't play scs, i am more an old school tactics mod guy ;)

    MartinW
  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    DeeKayNL wrote: »
    Not a fan of Neera's wild magic. One time she evaporated my entire gold collection :smile:
    this is completely not an issue as long as you
    1. spend the money you get as soon as possible to buy useful stuff
    2. put the valuable items you loot or find and that you don't plan to use in some container
    3. put every valuable gem in a gem bag and if you don't plan to use them to learn spells or to cast from quick slot every valuable scroll in an scroll bag
    4. when you need money to pay something you sell something form points 2 and 3
    5. before ending soa you put all your valuable items in some WK container, so they will be available also in tob

    this way if some money evaporates for a surge it is only a very little amount, even if it happens in the underdark or at the beginning of tob, when you have no access to your WK container, the gem bag filled with diamonds, rogue stones and similar will provide you the needed cash, let's say to buy expensive scrolls at the beginning of tob from the guy in saradush.

    the real problem whit bad surges is for other surges, but it can be greatly mitigated if a wild mage NEVER cast spells on the party, cast spells on self ONLY if is really needed, is better to risk a surge then to die because you don't have a stoneskin on SI on, and as soon as is possible casts spells on the enemies ONLY by the PI clone.
    that way i never had to reload using neera, even if from the moment that she can cast lev 7 spells i abuse of the dwehomers in any way i can, having her cast many ADHW in chap 2 and later using combos like 6 wail of the banshee, imprisonment, level drain or other in a row before actually having the clone cast improved alacrity and actually using the not lev 1 spells it has memorized.
    if the PI or the enemy is transformed in a bunny or hit by a cow it is not a problem at all, if it happens with the real neera or a party member she is trying to buff it can be worst then loosing money, as can mean to loose the battle or the life.

    neera is super powerful, no other npc or enemy boss match her power, as long as you use the proper tactics, avoid the risky ones and have an other arcane caster to buff and protect the party.
    but nalia/imoen have plenty of power as mages in an easier way, no need to transform them in sorcerer, and can deal with doors and traps as long as you don't mind to swap rings.

    Wow never looked at it that way! Gonna bookmark this for a following playthrough and take Neera. The time I took her I handled her like a normal mage. Seems she can do a lot more!
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    DeeKayNL wrote: »
    I never finished a game with Aerie. I know she can be OP in the late game but I never experienced her as OP, more the opposite. She always died instantly in many fights. Maybe I should give her another try.
    @MartinW told a lot about aerie, but as there is a dedicated topic where different players share their own power uses of her, that is so versatile to cover different roles at will, i link it to you
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47354/superaerie-power-tactics-for-the-c-m-spoilers

    DeeKayNL wrote: »

    PC Fighter-Cleric multi... rocking the hammers and flails.
    Keldorn: Carsomyr. Must say I almost never did a run where I could use the Carsomyr. Last time with hexxat but that doesnt count.
    Aerie: gear as suggested above
    Nalia: for now bow but later crossbow. She is the least fav in the group but i need arcane and a thief so..
    Mazzy: Thinking about changing some pips with EEKEEPER. Not sure If she will have enough pips to distribute if I just pick her up early. Really want to do longswords or scimitar and katana. Maybe later some in Axe?
    Free Spot: NPC's for quests.

    What do you think?
    good strong party.
    about the weapons
    aerie is deadly with enchanted sling and bullets as long as she buffs herself as the bonus damage from launcher and bullet enchantment and the +14 from str stack, end game she hits for 27 or 28 dmg/hit.
    but buffed, DW 2 good blunt weapons, with her simulacrum DW BBoD and FoA that help her is something to be seen, remember that she can go mlee when she wants as she has some levels more then at the start, tanking better then a fighter as she has arcane spells to do it, doing her good damage and being protected from be debuffed, while the enemies can debuff the FC charname all day long in scs

    nalia, as long as you improve her str, the lev 2 mage spell last quite long and is a good starting point, the returning daggers are better, same apr then a bow, but much more dmg output. later, or even sooner for the enemies with good ac, sling is better, fewer apr but better thac0, to have +4-5 slings in soa is not a big problem and there is also plenty of enchanted bullets, and good damage output for the stacked damages.
    i find that with nalia the bow is only worth to spam elemental or special arrows to disrupt, but not very effective to do damage, but anyway to do ranged damage is not her main task and if she has to do it MMM are much better.

    mazzy, short or long sword (changing pips with EEkeeper) and short bow, she should reach GM in both and it is 10 pips of the total 17 a fighter can get, and of the 7 spared 3 are gotten at more then 6Mxp...
    so i would say to work towards 3 DW pips, getting at least 2 soon, and possibly a pip in hammer.
    Why? crom. as both charname and aerie can get their str to 25 with self buffs what is the point of giving to them that hammer? let mazzy equip it OH and with her high MH apr (GM+lev13) or GWW she will be the ultimate damage dealer hitting for 8 (improved hasted) or 10 (GWW) apr, with GM and 25 str damage bonus.
    there are not enough pips to let her reach GM in swords, bows and axes if not for the last couple of tob battles and with only 2 pips in dw, imo not worth to spend pips in axe.

    charaname should have not problem in reaching 25 str with righteous magic and duhm, starting from a good belt and with the special cleric ring late game with duhm alone.

    EDIT: maybe for mazzy 5 apr improved hasted in scs, not sure if it is spell revision or scs that changes the improved haste behavior.
    i am not a big fan of both the mods or any mod that changes the spell system and is ages i don't play scs, i am more an old school tactics mod guy ;)

    Regarding Nalia, I wil be going for returning dagger till I get a good sling. Reading all this reminds me of the lack of knowlegde is still have regarding this game. :smile:

    Regarding Mazzy, Longswords, short bows and DW it is. with a pip in hammers. Nice! thank you.

    If the crom goes to mazzy I guess the Defender of Easthaven becoms an OH option for Charname?

    Would you say that BELM and Kundane need to be implemented in this party?


    PS iI definitly gonna read the topic about Aerie!!! Thank you!

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,621
    edited May 12
    DoE is the perfect OH for charname as with his con, that i suppose you will roll high and will grow further because of DUHM, the FC hp and the buffs he uses for combat (up to +20 hp from righteous magic and eventually other 20 hp form holy power, but if you cast the latter do it before RM and DUHM or it will set the str to 18 overriding their str buff, both bonuses are level dependent) he will have a lot of hp, and DoE make them last even longer for a very strong tanking capability.
    keldorn, 2H sword, and mazzy, DW, will not be very good tanks, are capable fighters, no one in your party can go really low as AC, so your best options to tank are charname with his buffed high hp pool and the damage reduction ( DoE, but also armor of faith and later hardiness) and aerie with her arcane spells, but she can do it only for a limited time as stoneskins and PFMW are not infinite.

    kundane is useful for mazzy until you get crom, then probably the +14 dmg from crom is better then +1 apr.
    or you can avoid to build crom, that costs 3 str items, and have more belts for your fighters and the gauntlets for aerie, as the last belt comes quite late in tob.
    and possibly this is the best choice as you can anyway have 2 toons at 25 str when is worth it to go full buff, but will have all your frontliners with high str also if you don't buff and mazzy with kundane.

    your choice, both building the hammer and having more str items works good with your party.

    belm can be useful if you pick jaheira after chap 2, is a good fighter, a good tank with ironskins, has the insect spells and good summons and can do part of the divine casting freeing charname and aerie from the task so they can better self buff with the very powerful cleric combat buffs.
    after chap 2 the npc quests should all be done, at least the ones of the not EE npcs as the new EE ones have long quests that require to have them in the party a long time. so you have a free place and jah is a good candidate, an other one is valygar, as you don't have a stabber, and also he can use belm oh and MH i guess you know which weapon is the better for him...

    remember that you can drop jaheira only one time, the second one she leaves forever and disappears from the game so if you plan to use her after chap 2 take her only when all the other npc quests are done,
    and this introduces a problem if you plan to take imoen with you after you rescue her
    while with valigar you can drop him and take him back how many times you want.

  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    DoE is the perfect OH for charname as with his con, that i suppose you will roll high and will grow further because of DUHM, the FC hp and the buffs he uses for combat (up to +20 hp from righteous magic and eventually other 20 hp form holy power, but if you cast the latter do it before RM and DUHM or it will set the str to 18 overriding their str buff, both bonuses are level dependent) he will have a lot of hp, and DoE make them last even longer for a very strong tanking capability.
    keldorn, 2H sword, and mazzy, DW, will not be very good tanks, are capable fighters, no one in your party can go really low as AC, so your best options to tank are charname with his buffed high hp pool and the damage reduction ( DoE, but also armor of faith and later hardiness) and aerie with her arcane spells, but she can do it only for a limited time as stoneskins and PFMW are not infinite.

    kundane is useful for mazzy until you get crom, then probably the +14 dmg from crom is better then +1 apr.
    or you can avoid to build crom, that costs 3 str items, and have more belts for your fighters and the gauntlets for aerie, as the last belt comes quite late in tob.
    and possibly this is the best choice as you can anyway have 2 toons at 25 str when is worth it to go full buff, but will have all your frontliners with high str also if you don't buff and mazzy with kundane.

    your choice, both building the hammer and having more str items works good with your party.

    belm can be useful if you pick jaheira after chap 2, is a good fighter, a good tank with ironskins, has the insect spells and good summons and can do part of the divine casting freeing charname and aerie from the task so they can better self buff with the very powerful cleric combat buffs.
    after chap 2 the npc quests should all be done, at least the ones of the not EE npcs as the new EE ones have long quests that require to have them in the party a long time. so you have a free place and jah is a good candidate, an other one is valygar, as you don't have a stabber, and also he can use belm oh and MH i guess you know which weapon is the better for him...

    remember that you can drop jaheira only one time, the second one she leaves forever and disappears from the game so if you plan to use her after chap 2 take her only when all the other npc quests are done,
    and this introduces a problem if you plan to take imoen with you after you rescue her
    while with valigar you can drop him and take him back how many times you want.

    I most say I did not pick a dwarven Fighter/Cleric but instead a Half Elf.. I did this for two reasons.
    1. I am not really a fan of my CHARNAME being shorty race. I really love the idea of a dwarven of gnome character but when I create one and see this ingame I usually dont like it except maybe in an all shorty party.
    NPC's I dont mind but not for my main.... sorry maybe I am just weird.
    2. I didnt know which races were compatible with a romance with Aerie. I guessed Half-Elf would be good. Was too lazy too google it before creating my main :astonished:

    I started the run yesterday and tried to get my planned party as fast as I could. Was kinda wierd for me because I ussually run down quests in a set order. This so that I can level up before encountering too difficult quests.

    I first did the slavers quest part1. After that I had to go to the sewers in the temple district go all the way around to be able to recruit Keldorn. Right after that I went to the government district for some easy XP. Right from the start Keldorns quest started. I must say it was really hard not to dismiss him from his duties.

    When I gave him the day off, I went to Umar Hills for Mazzy. Did some sidequests and freed her and rushed back. At this time Nalia would almost left the party because of the situation in her Keep. So I rushed to the keep and did this quest. After that I went back to pick up Keldorn.


    At this moment I had to remove Minsc from my party. Didnt have to much issues with it.
    Later I removed Jaheira from my party. This was much more difficult as I really like her in my party. Not just because I personally think she is a really good tank, but also for the extra content she provides.

    I really wanted to skip the Fighter stronghold, but when I decline Nalia leaves the party. Now I am probably not able to do the Cleric stronghold.

    I think I willl follow your tip about adding her to the party adfter I have done most NPC quests. I think I will skip most BG2EE NPC questst. Perhaps only the first one from hexxat. But thats more for what I get out of it.

    gorgonzola
  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    edited May 13
    If you're still looking for ideas.... looks like you want the good "aligned" chars like how you did with your evil party (by grabbing all the "evil guys".

    Spoilers and metagame dont count since the guy has played through already imho

    If that's the case:

    Minsc is your front liner. Toss him lilarcor early so hes not in trouble with all the charm and domation spells that fly all over the place. You will want to take advantage of his ranger heritage with his spells and ability to dual wield however. He becomes your tank.

    You have a few loadouts you can do with him.

    Lilarcor will be one of the the first things you'll grab for him and he will manage for a long while with it. As he levels you will want to give him his 3rd pip in dual wield, flails, and axes. Once he goes dual wield he can run in his offhand defender of easthaven (coupled with his armor of faith berserk and eventually toughness) gives him some very very nice defense. Against confusion/dom guys you can toss on shield of harmony and let him sword and board. Axe of the unyielding later on for vorpal imp haste fun.

    His main hands should be spec'd for flail of ages (mage /troll killer/interrupter), azure edge (doubles as a ranged weapon but a primary undead killer) and ofc keep his 2 hand spec so if its trash mobs he can toss on silver sword and just vorpal things off the map. Give him gaxx and cloak of mirroring.

    Aerie is your next character mainly for the multiclass cleric mage. Relegate her to the same as you did with Edwin and viconia (shes both of them rolled into one)
    Vecna, lavoks ring, metaspell amulet, everard sling with shield of reflection (shes now immune to missile attacks which are the real mage killers, adventure mart) prot evil 10 foot and remove fear are her staple party buffs alongside haste and all the other goodies clerics and mages get to go all powerhouse. She can also support the group with summons. (Skeles, mordys, planetars) or remove pesky buffs (breach pierce magic, greater malasion) with her cleric buffs she can actually hit pretty hard with everards and have a decent thaco (holy power, duhm) to make sure those hits land. As her mage levels progress shes able to sequence divine and arcane spells for the rough or SURPRISE stuff as mentioned above.

    She can go front line if you want but you have other front lines who are better and the everard sling let's her stand back and goliath vs david everyone.

    Keldorn becomes your 2nd frontline. His ability to true seeing himself, lilarcor him as you move minsc to dual wield, grabbing carosymer for the dispel makes him a wizard annihilator, aerie backing him let's him just go nuts once you can chaotic command him and once he grabs arans amulet hes also a slayer of the undead despite not being able to use turn undead.

    Since minsc is becoming your tank, keldorn basically hits over minsc shoulder. You can also give him firetooth for some sniper pew pew vs pesky things.

    You will also want to give him longsword (daystar and angruvundal) and layer on war hammers (crom and rune)

    Mazzy is next up. Let her be the ranged hin she is, she can self haste for another apr (letting aerie imp hase minsc and keldorn to get them up and over 5apr) and stand behind minsc and keldorn wrecking stuff, especially if you give her tansherons from trademeet and then later Gesean. If something gets close to her, make sure her short swords maxed and toss her scimitar so she can dual wield not just her sword and kundane and usunos +4 blade, but also arbanes short sword to give her free movement without the move speed penalty pushing her max apr with bows, she turns into a 50 caliber gun turret. Ss of mask also gives her some measure of crowd control if stuff gets close to bothering her or if theres a nasty melee guy running rampant.

    Your last choice boils down to who you chose as a main char...

    Anomen, cleric becomes a cleric fighter but still can only use cleric weapons and is frontline.

    Yoshimo, solid thief, plays into the storyline. Works great at ranged.

    Nalia thief but is mostly a mage, she can get the job done, shes ranged.

    Valygar another ranger who's specced into longbow but better dual wielding katanas (family blade to celestial fury to hindos doom) but cant touch mazzy on ranged, and you have 2 up front guys already.

    Minsc also wears the heavy armor, valy doesn't. You also create the same congestion as if you had with Anomen.

    I reccomend not using anomen, his weapon selection vs keldorn/minsc is limited and hes forced into melee, of which you already have 2 (3 if u want mazzy , 4 if u really wanna aerie it) thus creates ai pathing issues since everyones jostling to get swings. If you go all 4 (minsc aerie keldorn anomen/mazzy/valygar) you can end up (more often than not) aerie tanking, minsc behind everyone, keldorn swinging away and anomen standing there admiring his nails while Valygar complains about his life.

    Yoshi's a better thief than nalia, and imho opinion imoens a better thief as well who directly replaces yoshimi after spellhold and continues party continuity.

    Nalia is a ginger, we all love gingers and she uhh... gives away your gold....

    You can swap Valygar for minsc but minsc zerk outplays valygars stalker kit later on imho. (Backstab immune and lack of armor choices)

    Anomen can compete with minsc, but he needs to be pre buffed, minsc can just charge in and react rather than pre plan speeding up the action.

    As for your char, try something zany, your support groups there. Since it is a physical damage heavy party, go give a mage a druid a cleric a sorc or a shaman a shot (any of their kits) and have some fun.

    -A

    gorgonzola
  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    That was a lot of usefull info to read through :smile:

    I already started my run So my PC is already A fighter/cleric multi.
    That leaves me with little wiggleroom, or I could start over again.

    My personal unexperienced rundown of the NPC's.

    Anomen: I was annoyed by him at first, never took him in my party, later after watching an awesome Youtube playthrough I started a party with him and was impressed.

    Jaheira: Almost always in my party. Cant really tell why. Love her as a tank and love the extra content she brings.

    Minsc: Used to have him in a lot of party's, always wielding 2H Weapons. Never really was impressed. Probably build him wrong. Love his character!

    Keldorn: Never really took him along with me. Dont really know why. So this time he gets a chance :smile:

    Nalia: Kind of a lesser imoen? But arcane wise she holds her own. One of the few choices for good thieves.

    Valygar: Had him in 1 playthrough. Kinda dull? Not a lot of interaction and sounds boring? I hope i am not offending anyone.

    Yoshimo: Quite alright, but i guess I am not a fan of pure thiefs. I mean that gameplay wise. I never use the full potential of a thief. Last game I took Hexxat and really underused her. I backstabbed maybe 2 or 3 times in the game. The HLA traps are really strong. I used them 3 times, but felt a little guilty for cheesing that way. I used them on the Final Seal fight. They were placed wrong so nothing really happend :smile:
    I used them on Demorgorgon. Felt kinda cheesy when he was instakilled. And in the last fight of TOB. Made it frankly too easy. Not gonna do that anymore.

    Aerie: had her in my party a few times,but I really played her wrong so this time I hope to get it right. Never finished a game with her.

    I have played this game a lot, but havent finished the game a lot. I often stop when I am in the Underdark. Usually I lose interest around that point.

    I have played quite some classes. Never a pure arcane caster. I like to have my PC lead the party.
    I have played Kensai/mage a couple of times. I really liked that. Ranger/cleric once. Dont know if I completed that game.I played an Avenger. Didnt really like that.
    One time I made a Dwarven defender. But I found that kind of boring.

    I think I like my PC to be more interactive I guess. Although there should be a lot more I could try.

  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    Being a cleric fighter is fine, you can use aerie now more as a mage since you can personally cover critical cleric things yourself.

    Jahiras a true neutral who runs more a chaotic good which I can see why you take her and yes she is a strong char but you're looking for the "good ones"

    You can dual class yoshi as a mage once you get fine trap lock and possibly (tho ur pushing endgame) set snare maxed out (you're pushing endgame to let him reactivate his thief skills).

    Imoen replaces him and shes high enough in thief levels she can actually do the job with nearly zero issue to her mage skills while nalia actually starts out at iirc lvl 4 thief before going mage. Shes worse than imoen for thief ability and the 3 level difference in the mage levels results in nearly moot point on the mage front.

    If you keep yoshi you lose him for imoen, so you dont disrupt the party. If you take nalia you lose imoen or have to punt another party member to bring your sister in. (Its not a detriment story wise, it just can fux with ur composition and group)

    Imoens the same mage power as nalia with better thief skills. Nalia was her replacement b4 things changed b4 release is all) so take the better imho since ur still by looks of it figuring the game out.

  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    edited May 13
    But Nalia has OP ring and Imoen does not. While AC is not that important but +2 to saves is very good thing to have. Stack it with archmage's robe and one of the +2 jewelry/cloak and you have +5 to all saves. Add blur/spirit armor and you will auto-save almost everything.
    Though I agree that if you plan to role-play good party, leaving Imoen to get out of Spellhold by herself is not immersive. And carrying her in group as quest character until Bodhi will consume quite a lot of XP.

    gorgonzola
  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    My original plan is to replace Nalia with Imoen as the time comes. Seems like the logical thing to do as they both are very similar and Imoen is storywise more compelling to take with you. The only question is when exactly to tell Nalia she is no longer wanted. The gameplay technical answer would be in the maze. But weird to drop a partymember there. Maybe in Brynlaw but how will she return home? Maybe before just before Brynlaw. Would be a thief short, but I think you can get through Brynlaw without one?

    BTW would Aerie as arcane be enough? Could still switch Nalia for Yoshimo. Would be a more natural switch over to Imoen.

    Dual class Yoshimo never thought of that but seems kinda weak with 10 INT?

  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    Since both nalia and imoen are not going to be front lines anyways you can easily use the ring of prot +2 on imoen to equate it. They should never be in much danger of taking fire anyways with your front loadout thus making it pretty much a moot point.

    Nalia has about 20 second longer buffs than imoen but imoen is superior as a thief multiclass. You dont sacrifice your party cohesion by taking yoshi as your thief (who dies at spellhold and is replaced by imoen) vs taking nalia and having to choose.

    Her ring comes into play if you front line her, and you can but that is not the point of this party. If anything her having her ring which you cannot remove is detrimental to her because you require the lock pick, mercykiller, dangersense, air spirit rings to really make her work.

    Your primary group is already going to be using gaxx regen Bautista fire earth ram. This really only leaves the thief rings for imoen and nalia, and imoen can swap in 2 pushing her even further in her already superior thief skills vs nalia 1 swap out leaving her gimped.

    Imoen achieves the same save and fire save and her superior thief dual class gives her the equiv basically using nalia ring which can be interchangeable on the event vs nalia being stuck with only 1 ring to use vs imoens 2

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,261
    DeeKayNL wrote: »
    Dual class Yoshimo never thought of that but seems kinda weak with 10 INT?

    He can't dual to mage as you need a 17 in the prime attribute for the class being dualled in to. However, he could be dualled to a fighter if you wanted.

    gorgonzola
  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    edited May 13
    @aerie as arcane

    Since you're a cleric fighter, and clerics get an inane amount of buffs and since youre taking nalia, you regulate aerie to the cleric buff while pushing yourself to the maximum damage potential of a cleric fighter, having her allows you to fill gaps... ie:

    Aerie can dedicate slots to healing and buffs, like level 5 chaotic commands for minsc (so he isnt reliant on zerk except when he needs the oomph) and keldorn.

    This leaves your cleric open to use the offensive buffs like harm, holy power, slay living righteous magic, ect so they literally 2 shot things.

    Aerie once shes done buffing everyone switches to make for mage on mage (pierce magic, breach, ect) to doubling up (project image mislead simalcrulum) to summon support (animate dead mordy sword planetar) to straight kill (greater Mala lower resist finger death) or improved alacricity abhd .. or if you cleric buff her like ur main to a small degree, energy blades which will shred from the back line things as your tanks and melee dps wreck things.

    Your group is insanely strong.

    Edit: and once aerie hits 18ish in level she does all of the above moderately or you can set her spells do do any of them with devastating effect depending on what ur fighting.

    Not to mention she can still obliterate undead with turn.

    Aerie
  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    @Aewyrven in my opinion it is very important if character can reach save vs spell 0 at the early game and then save vs. spell -4 closer to SoA end. Also frontline and backline are not universal. Very often in dangerous fights you are thrown as whole group stacked right in front of enemy, with no availability to "send your tank forward and let others use range". In Compass level you can't even pre-buff. In those cases good saves vs. spell are very handy.. as for the nalia's disarm traps, game has crazy amount of perception pots. Also Nalia's ring have +50% FR which is not a big deal when you can pre-buff, but it helps against sudden fire attacks and virtually grants your cleric +1 level 2 spell slot (because you need to memorize one less protection from fire/ice).
    Also Imoen loses ton of "quest XP", like really a lot. She is convenient and it is always a cringe moment to say her "I have no place for you", but in terms of pure efficiency Nalia is better imo. Simply because of ring, and because she will reach high level spells notably earlier. (though it depends on how you play ofc, I usually solo to 1.2M XP without finishing quests to "quest XP" point and start picking comrades only from that point).

    gorgonzola
  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    DeeKayNL wrote: »

    BTW would Aerie as arcane be enough? Could still switch Nalia for Yoshimo. Would be a more natural switch over to Imoen.

    Dual class Yoshimo never thought of that but seems kinda weak with 10 INT?

    If you plan to kick Nalia, then you may go with Jan. He is more useful in early stage, you can give him Firetooth crossbow right from the start and from moral point of view it is easier to kick him in Spellhold then Nalia. As for if the Aerie will be enough... Imo, it is optimal to has 3 arcane casters (for 3x decrease spell resistance etc..), but 2 is borderline. Given that Aerie will also cast cleric buffs, you will get in situations when there will be nobody to cast Breach in current round when enemy mage will use PfMW.

    gorgonzola
  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    edited May 13
    Somehow leaving imoen in the maze doenst feel right :smile: I did it last playthrough with my evil party. But still didnt feel right.

    I think that leaves a few option which to choose from:

    1. Dont take Jaheira back but keep the spot open for imoen
    2. Take Jaheira back and kick her for good when i can get imoen (this will be more difficult for me personally)
    3. Kick Nalia for Imoen
    4. Switch Nalia for Jan and kick Jan for imoen


    If I go for option 1 That leaves me with Aerie, Imoen and Nalia/Jan.
    Option 3 and 4 leaves met with Aerie and Imoen but Jaheira as extra.

    hmmmm difficult! :smile: You notice that I have troubles with making choices :anguished:

    So looking at @MartinW comment regarding 3x arcane option 1 wouldnt be such a bad choice?


    gorgonzola
  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    @MartinW

    OP wants a good playthrough, Jan's CN. Doesnt jive.

    Imoen loses experience, but unless you completionist (and with a party of 6) which is what they are running, she doesnt end up too far behind. Your xp takes off during Sauhaugin and under dark and she quickly catches up.

    Let's examine nalia and imoen closer.

    Nalia saving grace: ring
    Nalias detriment: level 4 thief, ring cannot be removed

    Imoen saving grace: higher thief levels
    Imoens detriment: depending on progression is below party level

    Mage skills:
    Imoen is a level 7 thief, nalia is a level 4thief. This results on the xp table 30,000 xp differential, however imoen gains 75 more thief points due to her levels than nalia. You cannot adjust either, this makes imoen a better thief than nalia, indisputable.

    The xp difference once reaching tob, since they are both locked to mage, the cap of 8m xp leaves a mage: 7,875,000 xp.

    With a 30k differential, their mage levels are equal. They attain the same end level in magic (31)

    Ie:
    Nalia is a thief 4 mage 31
    Imoen is a thief 7 mage 31

    Edge so far: imoen

    Now we have to look at stats. D6 on the thief d4 on the mage.

    Nalia con 16
    Imoen con 16

    Imoen beats nalia due to 3d6 more hp on her thief levels. This can be negated by con boost belt but you arnt really worried by 3-18 hp anyways.

    I can get into dex and str but screw it.

    Int and wis are the main for slots. Wis for wish.

    Nalia: 17/9
    Imoen: 17/11

    Imoen wins again.

    Now we come down to the gear.

    Nalias ring: 50% fire resist +2 to saves, cannot be removed.
    Imoen: both slots open

    You bring up compass watchers keep and some fights thrown to a mishmash groups all discombobulated.

    The discombobulated is "you have been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself". A halfling child with a sling can defeat this or you can runs, they also cast lightning bolt not fireball so its save vs spell.

    Compass level watcher keep has dead and wild magic and strips buffs. So NEITHER win here.

    The majority of traps on that level are lightning steam pierce and poison traps, so nalias ring is moot point on the fire resist. She gets the +2 bonus to all however.

    She wins on naked challange here.

    Imoen: 2. Nalia: 1


    This leaves us with gear. I'll give nalia a point right off the hop. She can wear the same armor as imoen and the armor negates imoen from using guards ring. (Ring of protection +2) which is the same bonus as nalias ring.

    Imoen: 2 Nalia: 2

    Here is where nalia falls flat on her face however:

    Imoen has versatility.

    Imoen can use multiple rings for situations. Any ring you swap in for nalia imoen can use, nalia however is always stuck with her signet, and the only real boost it gives, because nalia is back row like imoen, is +2 to save throws.you are not relying on the fire resist to save nalia, you're relying on her spells, and imoen can toss in Bautista or the fire control ring from u derdark and match it.

    Their mage spells negate anything really nasty coming at them anyways and the front lines should be keeping things focused on them anyways.

    Nalia and imoen should never be near the front, and in tob you dont get tossed into "you have been waylaid " and tbh they arnt much of anything in soa anyways.

    The op already has prior game knowledge so they KNOW what is coming.

    nalia is permanently stuck with a +2 save bonus and fire resist with 1 ring, while imoen has better thief skills, more hp, and more versatility.

    That said, I think I got major way off topic here, so I apologize to the op. Quarantine and tasty bevvys. Play how ya like and go kick some ass! They are both fine, I'm just arguing min maxy stuff, they both will see u thru ur game.

  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    I just love these conversations because they give more indepth insights in this game. I always play casual and love how different people see NPC's en tactics in this game :smile:

    One way to avoid the nalia/imoen problem is to take them both, that would leave my party with 2 thief/mages and a cleric/mage.

    I can use charname and Keldorn as frontliner. Mazzy too and when not neccessary on the front she can use the tuigan of tasharon bow to chip away at enemies.

    Only problem I see with this setup the absence of a real tank. Dont know if charname can tank good enough. He can buff really good but dont know if he can take hits as good.

  • AewyrvenAewyrven Member Posts: 228
    edited May 13
    You're a fighter cleric, he can def tank enough. He can definitely tank.

    I applaud you however sir, for remaining awesome in the banter above and keeping on topic.

    Hats off for you!

    Edit: hla: toughness, weapon: defender of easthaven, spells: armor of faith, draw upon holy might and righteous magic will see you through some serious carnage.

    After that you stack buffs to turn yourself into a bastion of clerical fury.

    DeeKayNLgorgonzola
  • DeeKayNLDeeKayNL Member Posts: 66
    Thank you :smile: I really love these kinda but not really offtopic discussions. I also really loved the topic about Aerie which i read yesterday offered by @gorgonzola . I read things I didnt even know was possible and learn more everytime I ask a question. I just hope people dont find them annoying and keep answering my questions like you all do!

    Every run I do, I take those comments to heart and try them out. This keeps the game fun for me as a casual gamer.

    I think my final party is complete :smile:

    It definitely gonna be:

    PC Fighter/Cleric multi
    Keldorn
    Mazzy
    Aerie
    Nalia

    Later I pickup Imoen

    Not gonna change this one in TOB. Keeping the full party.

    I will try to keep this post updated with some experiences of this party if that is allowed by forum rules

    iosfrustration
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