Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

New Renderer

245

Comments

  • CerabelusCerabelus Member Posts: 328
    It's best to not get our hopes up too high, I can honestly say my expectations were too high and I didn't appreciate the work needed to fix and open up NWN.

    It is frustrating the lack of communication, my hope for down the line is they make a new series of modules or even a new campaign but not before they open up the restrictions and fix lasting issues.

  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 356
    I'm still wondering if NWN: EE could take off again in a big way with a bit of a push. The toolset and multiplayer elements are still quite unmatched today. And there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the 3e rules.

    NWN's only flaws are that it looks so crude and that single player campaigns are uninteresting because of the lack of a proper D&D party.

  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 356
    That's really impressive work. Caves really need that ceiling to give you the right feel.

    Tonden
  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 943
    So does this mean no glow (and others) maps then @JuliusBorisov?

    TR

    Kamigoroshi
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 859
    I'm also curious if there was any progress that can be salvaged and what the detailed explanation for the cancellation is. I think most people would be happy if there were a few performance tweaks, and various maps, with improved lighting, fog, draw distance, and built in controls for things like area saturation and bloom. Shader programming from NWScript would also be a big plus.

    I know a lot of that was made possible by community tools about ten years ago. I'm just wondering if there will be some progress in that regard even if it does not entail a complete rewrite of the renderer, even if it only works for PC, or if render-related updates will cease completely.

    Any chance you could get us some more information on that?

    DerpCityNeverwinterWights
  • AncarionAncarion Member Posts: 145
    I appreciate you letting us know about this disappointing news. I too am curious about the details of the decision and why it was determined that an improved renderer was not feasable, though I don't expect many answers.

    I am also most likely too optimistic to think that ending this work will free up resources to implement some of the features that have been sitting idle on Trello for so long...

    KamigoroshiDerpCityNeverwinterWights
  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,232
    edited May 27
    There is a preview build (not yet development) with a new lighting system on Steam at the moment.

  • BluddyBluddy Member Posts: 20
    I think most people would be happy if there were a few performance tweaks, and various maps, with improved lighting, fog, draw distance, and built in controls for things like area saturation and bloom. Shader programming from NWScript would also be a big plus.

    I know a lot of that was made possible by community tools about ten years ago.

    If this is true, it's a huge embarrassment for this project. Was more really available from modding tools 10 years ago?

  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 859
    Bluddy wrote: »
    I think most people would be happy if there were a few performance tweaks, and various maps, with improved lighting, fog, draw distance, and built in controls for things like area saturation and bloom. Shader programming from NWScript would also be a big plus.

    I know a lot of that was made possible by community tools about ten years ago.

    If this is true, it's a huge embarrassment for this project. Was more really available from modding tools 10 years ago?

    Various things were yes, using nwnshader and nwncx, except that most left it as proof of concept, and stuck with simple shaders like depth of field which is now part of NWN EE's own features. More was still possible however clunky because they were basically hacking the client to force it to do things it wasn't built to do. Various texture maps, texture swapping, and turning shaders on and off with scripting/using switches was possible.

    Now the actual developers have access to the source code you would think things would catch up more quickly. I suspect they got stuck on high ideals of how rendering ought to be done rather than implementing end user rendering features at all costs. Without a proper explanation we wont know however, but I expect the response will be stability over power, meanwhile the bug list increases either way.

    Ironically you'd probably only get those kind of tools again if the developers stopped active development of updates, but the community is much smaller than it was 10 years ago.

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,650
    With the renderer re-write work stopping, we're not stopping our support for NWN:EE. You might have noticed a few regular updates released in recent months, and more are on the way. The iOS version of NWN:EE is drawing closer.
    Exactly how will this affect the work on the enhanced beamdog models? Last I heard their development will resume once the renderer is finished. Now with that story off the table... I'm anxious of whenever or not the recreation of vanilla NwN assets will suffer the same fate.

  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 356
    Wow... waiting this long and then.. nothing? Lol what.

    DerpCityNeverwinterWights
  • BaireswolfBaireswolf Member Posts: 6
    So, maybe we can now expect an update to the android version that will take it to the same point of the PC one?

  • RifkinRifkin Member Posts: 126
    :s

    It was said you would destroy recreate the Sith renderer, not join them give up.

    OblongLimpingFox-size_restricted.gif

    NeverwinterWights
  • SilverizerSilverizer Member Posts: 8
    Hi, all!

    With heavy heart, I have to share that we've made a decision not to continue the work on the NWN Renderer.

    For more than 1.5 years, we've been tearing down the renderer, we had a vision of what we wanted to accomplish with it. The technical and creative vision of the renderer was mostly driven by Cameron Tofer.

    Unfortunately, the renderer from the ~2000 era turned out to be a too tough nut to crack. We tried everything and even in February Trent wrote it was still being worked on.



    With the renderer re-write work stopping, we're not stopping our support for NWN:EE. You might have noticed a few regular updates released in recent months, and more are on the way. The iOS version of NWN:EE is drawing closer.

    Sounds like you are throwing Cameron Tofer under the bus!

    What happened to the art assets that Beamdog/ Ossian was working on. Do they require the new "renderer".

    Beamdog already showed of years ago, what is possible without a new "renderer".

  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 859
    You can download the art assets and use them in your game right now.

  • BluddyBluddy Member Posts: 20
    They really need to clarify this. What's doable with the old renderer and what isn't? What can we expect?

  • SilverizerSilverizer Member Posts: 8
    You can download the art assets and use them in your game right now.

    Nothing new released by Beamdog in 2 years. What was released looked promising. No new renderer required.

    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/972100947047084540/0A9318B342A9B07543C3E0E44763E5419B287007/?imw=637&imh=358&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=#000000&letterbox=true

    Kamigoroshi
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 859
    Silverizer wrote: »
    You can download the art assets and use them in your game right now.

    Nothing new released by Beamdog in 2 years. What was released looked promising. No new renderer required.

    Exactly.

  • jmrjmr Member Posts: 5
    The iOS version of NWN:EE is drawing closer.

    How? If I understand Apple's app store rules correctly, new apps using OpenGL will not be approved. You would need a new Metal-based renderer.

  • BluddyBluddy Member Posts: 20
    jmr wrote: »
    The iOS version of NWN:EE is drawing closer.

    How? If I understand Apple's app store rules correctly, new apps using OpenGL will not be approved. You would need a new Metal-based renderer.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they *did* finish the job for iOS because that's been the priority, and now they're like, we don't want to backport this to the other platforms. iOS has been the highest priority for a while, especially at the cost of the Android version.

  • NeverwinterWightsNeverwinterWights Member Posts: 246
    edited May 28
    Not gonna lie. Kinda mad right now. Only reason me and a friend started planning and scripting for a new PW was because we were looking forward to some "new life" to be breathed into this game with a new renderer. Even though it was taking a long time we were still holding out hope. Feeling pretty deflated now.

    Post edited by NeverwinterWights on
  • BluddyBluddy Member Posts: 20
    I'm guessing the original renderer, given the timeframe and the primitive graphics, didn't do vertex processing on the GPU. This is probably the biggest issue. If the transform and lighting aren't processed on the GPU but are done on the CPU instead, high-poly models you load into the game will eventually kill performance.

  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 859
    With 64-bit some vocal people were also saying that it would greatly improve the graphics, I think they really misunderstood the point. Even then 64-bit could in theory improve the memory so possibly help to raise the amount of resources in an NWN module they couldn't in practice because it was tied to all other various things. So why all the trouble for 64-bit? Releasing on iOS seems a likely reason. I don't know about the other requirements but it would be a bit weird if they also had to give up on the iOS port, though I personally think it will be about as fruitful as the Android port.

    It would be a let down if all that came out of it was required changes for console and iOS releases, and they couldn't salvage any rendering features for PC.

    It also seems hard to fathom that they just couldn't do the basics of rendering in a modern way. The person that made the Aurora-engine emulator (not piracy because it doesn't supply the content) years ago was able to render geometry and textures from NWN to DA. Plus if they couldn't load the geometry to graphics cards I assume that would have been a roadblock sooner than one and a half years later.

    At least we have keyholing to melt it all away, right? Right? ..... Right?

    NeverwinterWightsDerpCity
  • CalgacusCalgacus Member Posts: 254
    The Enhanced Hall of Justice and HD Remake weapons and shields released by beamdog 2 years ago still looks great so I hope they still work on new content like that in addition to the further work on the core game engine. I was never especially interested in the new renderer and always wished they put more resources to other things like new content, new fixes, etc.

  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 943
    @FreshLemonBun said
    At least we have keyholing to melt it all away, right? Right? ..... Right?

    Yea like the walls, the floor...

    TR

    DerpCityGrymlorde
Sign In or Register to comment.