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Are Belt and Liia Jannath supposed to be pushovers? (spoiler warning)

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  • GloomfrostGloomfrost Member Posts: 261
    edited July 2019
    Hey semiticgod, hey your right i just checked. This makes Algernon's Cloak and the Nymph Cloak the most important items for a no re-load run. I sure behaves differently then all charm spells, because the recipient of the charm spell normally goes hostile, but with Algernon's Cloak they go back to a neutral blue. Thanks for this discovery this makes the fight absolutely 100% winnable now :) Whew... poor Wizard Slayer :(
    DreadKhansemiticgoddessJuliusBorisov
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 183
    I remember spamming the hell out of Web in that encounter. Not only did I want to keep both of them alive, but also to be the one killing all the Doppelgangers - as to not miss out on XP. So ideally I wanted everything, including Belt, Liia and the guards webbed.

    I don't know how many tries that took me. Probably few dozen. Piece of cake in comparison to rolling a character!
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 1,090
    edited July 2019
    I believe in the vanilla game you could use Otiluke's Resiliant Orb. (At least I think I used that way back in the day...) In the EE's, however, this is considered an offensive move and your PC gets nuked by Winski.

    I used web instead myself, as it gives you time to setup a proper offense.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Well, that's ironic as heck, since Web is an actual hostile spell, being red and all. How the heck does Web not offend, but the sphere does? Odd.
    gorgonzolaJuliusBorisovsemiticgoddess
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 1,090
    edited July 2019
    DreadKhan wrote: »
    Well, that's ironic as heck, since Web is an actual hostile spell, being red and all. How the heck does Web not offend, but the sphere does? Odd.

    It is probably because web doesn't target a specific character (AOE) and causes no damage by itself. You can use it in towns without causing neutrals to go hostile, even if they get caught in it. The sphere, while it doesn't cause damage, does target a specific character - though, as you point out, it is considered a neutral (white) spell. I think it's a bug myself.
    JuliusBorisovsemiticgoddessDreadKhanDaevelon
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 24
    I also had a solo run ended here with a fmt and decided to find a reliable way to keep them alive.

    So far, the most succesful for a solo fmt is:
    1. Buff with every potion and spell that helps with melee THAC0 and damage (strength, heroism, speed, DHUM)
    2. Summon some monsters with monster summoning wand between Belt and the nobles (i haven't done this)
    3. Cast Chaos from a scroll right when the dialogue ends
    4. Go near Belt and attack the dopplegangers closest to him

    I have done this 10 times (without monster summoning) and Belt survived each encounter. Addind the monster summoning would further ensure his survival.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Liia Jannath is much tougher in SCS v32. She now has pre-buffs (though that might depend on the difficulty setting) and will cast Improved Mantle on top of her Mirror Images and Stoneskins. She's actually harder to kill than Belt now.
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 24
    She should be, to be honest. Even in the classic game, her script needs just a little adjusting to make her more survivable (invis at the start of the battle to break aggro, a remove magic from invis to dispel the dopplegangers, mirror image for herself and then it's smooth sailing). Belt should have a full plate and that should be enough for him to make it through.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,822
    Yeah, the way it goes in SCS feels about right. In my latest run (Tactical difficulty), I joined the battle casting a haste (to benefit my allies as well, of course) and basically stuck to normal attacks from there. The dukes cleaned up, and there weren't even any casualties among the guards.

    Note that the reason the plot needs you doesn't depend on that battle being tough - it's all about presenting the evidence to stop a war.
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 823
    4ltair wrote: »
    She should be, to be honest. Even in the classic game, her script needs just a little adjusting to make her more survivable (invis at the start of the battle to break aggro, a remove magic from invis to dispel the dopplegangers, mirror image for herself and then it's smooth sailing). Belt should have a full plate and that should be enough for him to make it through.

    Equally, I don’t think it’s unrealistic for Belt not to be in heavy armor. That stuff’s uncomfortable, and he doesn’t think he’s in a combat situation.

    semiticgoddess
  • CalingorCalingor Member Posts: 2
    edited December 2020
    There are a couple other defensive strategies that don't seem to be mentioned above, namely:

    1. Cast Improved Invisibility on one or both of them; there is a copy for sale in the Inn at Ulgoth's Beard; this will give them a -4 to be hit even after they inevitably attack.

    2. Cast Spirit Armor on them. There are a whole bunch of copies in Socercous Sundries. This is the more useful option of the two, especially since your party doesn't have to burn the spell up if you are too low a level to cast fourth level spells.

    I only tried Otiluke's Resilient Sphere once a few years back, and it was treated as a hostile act by the Duchal Palace guards, who all turned on me.

    semiticgoddessBlackraven
  • CalingorCalingor Member Posts: 2
    edited May 2023
    Also, since I usually solo no reload with my Cavalier, I had to come up with a new method.

    In the second level below durlags tower there are some cleric scrolls, in the room with the sparring dummies. One of them is Defensive Harmony. Another is Mind Control. I tried mind control on one of the doppelgangers, but for some reason it triggered the dukes and their soldiers to turn hostile. (I imagine it was because the charmed doppelganger continued to attack Belt before I directed him otherwise. So, if you use this method, it might be a good idea to pick a target that is not yet able to attack.)

    I decided to be generous and count it as a bug, and reload anyway. It's too mindless NPC of him to attack the party for that reason....

    Defensive Harmony was enough the second time, when my dood was maximally buffed up. I did heal Belt a few times. I've given up on trying to save Liia Jannath.
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