I played a solo game with a half-elf Cleric/Thief in BG1 and most of Shadows of Amn. I liked the versatility, since she could heal herself, summon creatures, sneak past foes that were too challenging, and open locked items by herself without needing other characters to do so.
The "any item" ability for thieves in BG2 was also nice, since I could then have my Cleric/Thief use Carsomyr.
The "any item" ability for thieves in BG2 was also nice, since I could then have my Cleric/Thief use Carsomyr.
Did you use it for the magic resistance? Give that you can't backstab with it and aren't proficient in it and can't whirlwind with it, the one attack per round with it seems pretty useless.
@AHF I mostly used it for the magic resistance, but there was a glitch or something one game that allowed me to have proficiencies in two handed sword as a thief. Basically, when I imported my character into BG2 from BG1 the game let me choose to distribute my BG1proficiencies in any category I wanted. I chose two handed sword, but then when the game started I couldn't actually use one, which was really annoying since I'd wasted my proficiencies. At first I was going to restart the game, but then I read about the any item ability, so I waited until I got that ability and then used Carsomyr with two proficiency points in it.
I've never cycled characters through multiple times and now only use BGT (no importing) so I haven't seen that glitch but that makes it more understandable.
I don't think it has much over a mage/thief. It's got more hit points and it can heal itself and cast sanctuary.
But a mage/thief can use a short bow and can use decent backstab weapons from the beginning. It also doesn't have to spend any points on open lock which allows it to max out its other abilities earlier in the game. And the high level mage spells are the most brokenly powerful thing in the game. Sanctuary is nice in the hands of a thief... but so is the much longer lasting invisibility spell.
Fighter/clerics are also awesome. If nothing else it's a front line fighter that can buff and heal itself.
I don't think it has much over a mage/thief. It's got more hit points and it can heal itself and cast sanctuary.
But a mage/thief can use a short bow and can use decent backstab weapons from the beginning. It also doesn't have to spend any points on open lock which allows it to max out its other abilities earlier in the game.
You'll run out of spells quickly if relying on Knock to open *everything*, no? Best saved for the difficult locks
And the high level mage spells are the most brokenly powerful thing in the game.
True
Sanctuary is nice in the hands of a thief... but so is the much longer lasting invisibility spell.
Fighter/clerics are also awesome. If nothing else it's a front line fighter that can buff and heal itself.
So are Ranger/Clerics, though they shouldn't really get Druid spells higher than level 3, and have to be good, which isn't so fun...
Swashy 10 -> cleric is a great combo, you get free armor, hit/damage, and 3* in TWF plus you can get 150 in find/disarm traps. It's not tedious at all to dual class, starting a new character in BG2 I hit 10 after finishing the dungeon and Aerie's quest
Swashy 10 -> cleric is a great combo, you get free armor, hit/damage, and 3* in TWF plus you can get 150 in find/disarm traps. It's not tedious at all to dual class, starting a new character in BG2 I hit 10 after finishing the dungeon and Aerie's quest
It's tedious if you start in BG1...
Speaking strictly from a BG1 perspective cleric/thief multiclass is more powerful and a lot less tedious than dual classing especially since cleric caps at the same level in this combo as it would if you were single classed.
If you want to play the series continuously then it's actually pretty convenient because thieves cap out at level 10 in BG1 and you can dual into cleric right at the start of BG2 though you do of course miss out on having the cleric part throughout BG1.
In the end it's all about what you want to do with the character, though as always dual classing takes planning ahead of time.
You'll run out of spells quickly if relying on Knock to open *everything*, no? Best saved for the difficult locks
Running around with two knock spells has worked surprisingly well for me. Bash can open some of the locks and opening locks tends to be a concern in noncombat situations where resting isn't a problem. It isn't perfect, but it lets you out of putting points in one of your thieving abilities .
One of the most satisfying classes I have ever had the pleasure to play. Liked it so much I started work on a NPC mod for a half-orc cleric-thief years ago which I'm keen now to finish, once I install the game again on Nov. 28th (and complete at least one playthrough of BG:EE).
The only downside comes at the very end of ToB when all the enemies are immune to backstab.
One of the most satisfying classes I have ever had the pleasure to play. Liked it so much I started work on a NPC mod for a half-orc cleric-thief years ago which I'm keen now to finish, once I install the game again on Nov. 28th (and complete at least one playthrough of BG:EE).
Did you play the multi class or a dual class? If the former, did you play as a Half-Orc or a Gnome? From your post, sounds like the former...
For absolute powergaming on a dual classed rogue, you only need 75 disable traps and 75 open locks. Then you quaff potions and obtain the two rings in BG2 with +25 bonuses (one in thieves guild, other in planar speed).
This lets you put more points into hide in shadows, move silently (about 50 in each of those is fine), and set traps (as close to 100 as you can so you can set snares without failing).
I played through the game with a 9 swash/cleric and loved it. By ToB I was dual wielding flails casting buffs spells and causing havoc. Not having backstab allowed me to gimp my hide and ms and put more points in Detect Illusion (hello true sight) and Set Traps giving a different playstyle than the traditional thief.
Rules-wise it's an awesome combination, but I have a lot of difficulty imagining what a Cleric/Thief would actually be in real life. The two classes don't really mesh into an archetype for me.
Rules-wise it's an awesome combination, but I have a lot of difficulty imagining what a Cleric/Thief would actually be in real life. The two classes don't really mesh into an archetype for me.
The great Tiax, clearly.
...Also, if we're talking PC cleric/thieves, the two classes would fit perfectly together if the character in question were a cleric of, say, Mask.
Rules-wise it's an awesome combination, but I have a lot of difficulty imagining what a Cleric/Thief would actually be in real life. The two classes don't really mesh into an archetype for me.
The great Tiax, clearly.
...Also, if we're talking PC cleric/thieves, the two classes would fit perfectly together if the character in question were a cleric of, say, Mask.
This ^
Also Brandobaris, halfling deity of Stealth, Thievery, Rogues, and Adventuring. Stupid that Halflings can't be Cleric/Thieves.
One of the most satisfying classes I have ever had the pleasure to play. Liked it so much I started work on a NPC mod for a half-orc cleric-thief years ago which I'm keen now to finish, once I install the game again on Nov. 28th (and complete at least one playthrough of BG:EE).
Did you play the multi class or a dual class? If the former, did you play as a Half-Orc or a Gnome? From your post, sounds like the former...
I played with a half-orc, which must be multi. I've dual-classed several other class combos in the past and really, really disliked it, so I basically go multi for every combo. (FYI here's a post on the NPC mod idea.)
I played with a half-orc, which must be multi. I've dual-classed several other class combos in the past and really, really disliked it, so I basically go multi for every combo. (FYI here's a post on the NPC mod idea.)
Thanks. Yes, I'm not really much of a fan of dual-classing either, I can see its value if *starting* with BG2, but it's extremely tedious if starting in BG1 and even when you get your originals levels back it can be more limiting in some ways than mutli-classing - you stop progressing in one class (so no further THAC0 or Fighter saving throw progress for fighter>mages, no bettter backstabs for thief duals, NO ORIGINAL CLASS HLA etc.)
@Oxgord_Guy Yep, the part of the entire saga that I like best is the BG1 leg. The first half of SoA is my next most favorite part, prior to entering Suldanessellar, I would say. (Although, honestly, I begin to weary a little by the time I reach the Underdark.) Dual-classing utterly buzzkills that stretch of the game for me. I'm to go to all the trouble of dualing--and thereby miss out on having both class skills for so much of the game (which as I have said is also for me the most enjoyable part)--just to be uber-powerful at the end of ToB? Nope, that's not for me.
What kind of gods a cleric thief is likely to follow?
This build uses Chauntea. Thieving skills don't have to be used in a criminal way.
I like the concept for that NPC, not sured I'd go with two weapon fighting for a CHARNAME cleric/thief build, would probably go for staves, slings, then two-handed weapon style, then flails, then hammers
Ive been set on this class for weeks, for several reasons.
First off, I love spellcasting. I think it adds a fun mechanic of depth to the combat. But if I were a BG Character, I would not enjoy being a mage, spending all my resting time memorizing complex incantations... Id def prefer the more intuitive way of casting clerical/druid spells. Thats rules out mage.
Also, I wouldnt wanna go around all day wearing full plate armor. That would piss me off so much, Id be like a lady in her period. That leaves Druid and Thief/Cleric. And the latter seems to me more awesome. A wise-man-&-agile-warrior/adventurer combination... A fantasy era investigator ^^ Staff for fighting and backstabbing fortifies this vision. Same with sling.
Apart from that, the Cleric/Thief get some amazing HLA to play around with, like Use Any Item that lets you equip swords and bows and otherwise class-, alignment- and character-restricted gear. Scrolls!
Sure, there might be more powerful combinations out there, but this def seem one of the most enjoyable to me. Micro management is a must for the main character imo.
The one drawback I can found is the race options. Havent decided on a Gnome or Half-Orc yet. Leaning towards Gnome though.
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The "any item" ability for thieves in BG2 was also nice, since I could then have my Cleric/Thief use Carsomyr.
Then I saw and kinda realized, again, it doesn't seem like any class is ever terrible if handled the right way.
But a mage/thief can use a short bow and can use decent backstab weapons from the beginning. It also doesn't have to spend any points on open lock which allows it to max out its other abilities earlier in the game. And the high level mage spells are the most brokenly powerful thing in the game. Sanctuary is nice in the hands of a thief... but so is the much longer lasting invisibility spell.
Fighter/clerics are also awesome. If nothing else it's a front line fighter that can buff and heal itself.
It's tedious if you start in BG1...
If you want to play the series continuously then it's actually pretty convenient because thieves cap out at level 10 in BG1 and you can dual into cleric right at the start of BG2 though you do of course miss out on having the cleric part throughout BG1.
In the end it's all about what you want to do with the character, though as always dual classing takes planning ahead of time.
The only downside comes at the very end of ToB when all the enemies are immune to backstab.
This lets you put more points into hide in shadows, move silently (about 50 in each of those is fine), and set traps (as close to 100 as you can so you can set snares without failing).
Level 1 Swashbuckler - -1 AC.
Level 5 Swashbuckler - -2 AC, +1 damage and hit rolls
Level 10 Swashbuckler - -3 AC, +2 damage and hit rolls.
...Also, if we're talking PC cleric/thieves, the two classes would fit perfectly together if the character in question were a cleric of, say, Mask.
Also Brandobaris, halfling deity of Stealth, Thievery, Rogues, and Adventuring. Stupid that Halflings can't be Cleric/Thieves.
First off, I love spellcasting. I think it adds a fun mechanic of depth to the combat. But if I were a BG Character, I would not enjoy being a mage, spending all my resting time memorizing complex incantations... Id def prefer the more intuitive way of casting clerical/druid spells. Thats rules out mage.
Also, I wouldnt wanna go around all day wearing full plate armor. That would piss me off so much, Id be like a lady in her period. That leaves Druid and Thief/Cleric. And the latter seems to me more awesome. A wise-man-&-agile-warrior/adventurer combination... A fantasy era investigator ^^
Staff for fighting and backstabbing fortifies this vision. Same with sling.
Apart from that, the Cleric/Thief get some amazing HLA to play around with, like Use Any Item that lets you equip swords and bows and otherwise class-, alignment- and character-restricted gear. Scrolls!
Sure, there might be more powerful combinations out there, but this def seem one of the most enjoyable to me. Micro management is a must for the main character imo.
The one drawback I can found is the race options. Havent decided on a Gnome or Half-Orc yet. Leaning towards Gnome though.