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Xzar vs. Edwin for my evil party?

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  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Quartz said:

    Don't underestimate Xan, Dinsdale. He's never a party's ONLY mage, but as a second arcane caster he is bloody excellent for disabling spells etc.

    If the rest of the party doesn't commit suicide from him making them depressed... ;-)

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited November 2012

    @Oxford_Guy: fighter/mages are cool as hell, but they're generally too busy bashing heads in to CC with sleeps and whathaveyou. as much as it pains me to say (I like her a lot), you could probably drop Safana, and (again, as sacrilegious as it sound) use Monty for traps/locks, with the invisibility ring from Ulgoth's Beard. (not sure if it'll be charge based or once/day in BGEE). or drop Dorn, and use Monty as you über frontliner, he's certainly up to the task with gloves of ogre power.

    I'd consider dropping Safana, if I thought I could get away with just Monty, but am not sure he'll have enough thief points to deal with all locks [EDIT: I meant traps] *and* be my scout/backstabber.

    No way am I dropping Dorn, though! He's a definite! Gotta use at least one of the new NPCs and I want to play *bad* this time around...
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Corvino said:

    Off topic slightly, but...

    No-one's mentioned Kagain, despite still being an illegally good tank in BG1. Regenerating HP due to his 20 Con is godly when you're low on healing spells and level 3 or less. He'll heal fully on almost any area transition. His relatively low strength and dex can be a bit of an issue, but he has boatloads of HP and great saves.

    I know you're pretty keen on thieves, but I would happily drop either Monty or Safana for additional tanky goodness.

    Kagain is great, I agree, and would be in my party if it wasn't for Dorn (who I'm *not* dropping), but I'd rather have Monty if it was a choice between him and Kagain
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    edited November 2012

    @Oxford_Guy: fighter/mages are cool as hell, but they're generally too busy bashing heads in to CC with sleeps and whathaveyou. as much as it pains me to say (I like her a lot), you could probably drop Safana, and (again, as sacrilegious as it sound) use Monty for traps/locks, with the invisibility ring from Ulgoth's Beard. (not sure if it'll be charge based or once/day in BGEE). or drop Dorn, and use Monty as you über frontliner, he's certainly up to the task with gloves of ogre power.

    I'd consider dropping Safana, if I thought I could get away with just Monty, but am not sure he'll have enough thief points to deal with all locks *and* be my scout/backstabber.

    No way am I dropping Dorn, though! He's a definite! Gotta use at least one of the new NPCs and I want to play *bad* this time around...
    thought so :) he definitely won't be able to balance 4 skill simultaneously (even full thieves would have difficulty with that), but you don't need to - get ring of invisibility, use that to stealth and backstab, works just as well.

    btw thanks for getting me thinking about that, now I know how I'm gonna fit in Monty and Xzar into my party :)
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Another option would be to dual safana (or Imoen) to a mage, after getting sufficient points in traps, but I'd need someone else to cover for them whilst they regain their thief levels and am not sure I'll have elbow room for that, though I guess I could wait to pick Edwin until she's re-levelled, by which time he'll come with some extra level 2 AND 3 spells I won't have to find scrolls for...
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729

    @Oxford_Guy: fighter/mages are cool as hell, but they're generally too busy bashing heads in to CC with sleeps and whathaveyou. as much as it pains me to say (I like her a lot), you could probably drop Safana, and (again, as sacrilegious as it sound) use Monty for traps/locks, with the invisibility ring from Ulgoth's Beard. (not sure if it'll be charge based or once/day in BGEE). or drop Dorn, and use Monty as you über frontliner, he's certainly up to the task with gloves of ogre power.

    I'd consider dropping Safana, if I thought I could get away with just Monty, but am not sure he'll have enough thief points to deal with all locks *and* be my scout/backstabber.

    No way am I dropping Dorn, though! He's a definite! Gotta use at least one of the new NPCs and I want to play *bad* this time around...
    thought so :) he definitely won't be able to balance 4 skill simultaneously (even full thieves would have difficulty with that), but you don't need to - get ring of invisibility, use that to stealth and backstab, works just as well.
    But I thought you couldn't pick that ring up until quite late? Not sure I want to wait that long withot a viable scout... Am still veering towards taking two thieves... and currently *Edwin*...

    I do actually love it that the game does force you to make these hard choices, there is no one right or easy answer!

  • MurrayConfederacyMurrayConfederacy Member Posts: 188
    For BG1 with the npc mod, Xzar is VERY interesting to have in your party compared to Edwin. I think that the reason is that Xzar has such a strange and crazy personality that it is difficulty not to find him interesting.
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    edited November 2012

    @Oxford_Guy: fighter/mages are cool as hell, but they're generally too busy bashing heads in to CC with sleeps and whathaveyou. as much as it pains me to say (I like her a lot), you could probably drop Safana, and (again, as sacrilegious as it sound) use Monty for traps/locks, with the invisibility ring from Ulgoth's Beard. (not sure if it'll be charge based or once/day in BGEE). or drop Dorn, and use Monty as you über frontliner, he's certainly up to the task with gloves of ogre power.

    I'd consider dropping Safana, if I thought I could get away with just Monty, but am not sure he'll have enough thief points to deal with all locks *and* be my scout/backstabber.

    No way am I dropping Dorn, though! He's a definite! Gotta use at least one of the new NPCs and I want to play *bad* this time around...
    thought so :) he definitely won't be able to balance 4 skill simultaneously (even full thieves would have difficulty with that), but you don't need to - get ring of invisibility, use that to stealth and backstab, works just as well.
    But I thought you couldn't pick that ring up until quite late? Not sure I want to wait that long withot a viable scout... Am still veering towards taking two thieves... and currently *Edwin*...

    I do actually love it that the game does force you to make these hard choices, there is no one right or easy answer!

    erm... shit, I'm not sure. can't you access Ulgoth's Beard right from the start? I mean, you can go up to the bridge near BG (not without some difficulty, but you can), and it is easily accessible from there (just go north), no?

    edit: though money is another matter entirely... I confused it with ring of free action initially (which you can just nick at the same area), ring of invisibility cost a hefty 25k gold.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    just because you have montaron.
    I however, would just drop Saf, and take edwin too, espcially if you are thinking of replacing her with Eldoth
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited November 2012

    Take both, they are both brilliant!

    Actually, while this might not suit Oxford_Guy's plans for the entire party, this makes me realize that I've never had the two of them in the same party and I would very much like to do that one day.

  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Take both.


    Two mages are useful, even in bg1.
  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    edited November 2012
    Xzar if you want to go for party synergy (he is mates with Montaron after all) or Edwin if you want to go for power. But still, i think you should reconsider this line up a bit, especially if you plan on playing Insane difficulty. Archery (ranged combat) is the strongest asset in BG1, and you don't have a single specialist for this in your group. You also don't need more than 1 mage in BG1, as they aren't very powerful at early levels and there aren't many strong enemy mages in the game either (best counter to a mage is another mage), maybe go for an evil Elven fighter with max in longbows? I guarantee you will finish the game as the top damage dealer in your group.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Well, Edwin is clearly the more powerful mage. However, Xzar can definitely be the more powerful character. As was pointed out earlier with a tome of dex or wis you've got yourself a Necromancer/Thief or Necromancer/Cleric. With Either choice you will be gaining 5th level spells (just like Edwin) but you'll also have max level priest spells (for BG1) or you can take some of the burden off your thieves or replace Safana with Eldoth as you have considered.

    I love both characters but Xzar's stats make him a better choice for party synergy, I believe. Go with Xzar, he's a destroyer of worlds afterall.
  • VhailorVhailor Member Posts: 12
    Definitely both! That's what I did last time I played evil. In fact, I think I was a mage as well. I figured out a way to separate Xzar from his thief friend without him complaining too much, can't remember how though.
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    Send the one you dont want off alone against a bassilisk. Bam, statued!
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited November 2012
    What happens if you take a stroll with one member of a NPC pair (i.e., way from the rest of the party) and just cast Petrification on him or her? Does the other member leave? Or is it out of sight, out of mind. Oops, never mind, forgot petrification comes only from Chromatic Orb at a relatively high level.
    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • Spaceman_SpiffSpaceman_Spiff Member Posts: 40
    @Oxford_Guy dude, seems like you and I are exactly on the same page! Although I've completed the BG2 campaign with an all-evil party many times (and therefore love Edwin), I wanted to try evil in BG1 for the first time. I'm planning to use both: Xzar initially as my mage with Viconia as the cleric and then dual him to cleric at level 6 with the tome in Durlag's tower and replace Viconia with Edwin. That way my final party will look something like this:

    PC: Swashbuckler dualled to mage at level 6 (max out Lock Picks and Find Traps) + disabling/buffs
    Dorn
    Kagain
    Monty (max out hide in shadows/move silently and maybe some into pickpockets for the occasional larceny
    Xzar (necromancer 6/bat-shit crazy cleric 8)
    Edwin (main AoE mage)
  • Spaceman_SpiffSpaceman_Spiff Member Posts: 40
    although I may dual at 5 (to get my Swashie bonus) so that I don't have to wait that long to get back those much-needed survival thief skills..
  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    I'm going to try out the same character in the Black Pits, but with spears proficiency. If she is interesting, I'll maybe start my first evil playthrough of BG... and I'm sure I'll take Monty and Xzar along. At least until one or both meet an unfortunate end. I think Montaron and Xzar are more fun, but Edwin is more powerful... it's really hard to decide. Maybe do as @colonel_burger says, take both :)
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    1. Pick up Xzar and Safana
    2. Get Safana good with the Lock Picking and Finding Traps while you develop Monty's stealth skills.
    3. Get to Baldur's Gate, immediately get the Tome of Dexterity, feed it to Xzar, dual-class Xzar to Thief.
    4. Boot Safana, pick up Edwin.
    5. Victory.

    Also, to answer questions about the Ring of Invisibility; you can potentially get it very early, it's just that it costs over 25k gold if I remember right. Very hefty.
  • colonel_burgercolonel_burger Member Posts: 279
    @lemernis the bg1 npc project added some awesome banter between these two. My first playthrough will be CHARNAME as an evil fighter/mage, Monty, xzar, Edwin, dorn and either Vicky or tiax. I can't wait for the mayhem.
  • Spaceman_SpiffSpaceman_Spiff Member Posts: 40
    Lemernis said:

    Oops, never mind, forgot petrification comes only from Chromatic Orb at a relatively high level.

    what about Flesh to Stone scroll?
  • NadroirNadroir Member Posts: 50
    I'd vote for Xzar. You may as well get him while it's possible.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    edited November 2012

    Lemernis said:

    Oops, never mind, forgot petrification comes only from Chromatic Orb at a relatively high level.

    what about Flesh to Stone scroll?
    Good luck getting a Level 6 Mage scroll in BG1, bud. There aren't any, and Mages will be capped at Level 9, barely getting Level 5 Mage spells. In fact, Sorcerors won't even get 5th level spells. I'm waiting for the rage/shit/etc storm that happens as a result of that fact.
  • Spaceman_SpiffSpaceman_Spiff Member Posts: 40
    ah damn! didn't think of that.. not impressed
    image
  • eksterekster Member Posts: 234
    Wild mages can still cast level 6, as long as they can find a scroll first. :p
  • StradlinStradlin Member Posts: 142
    It saddens me to see that pompous pansy whiner tasting better that highly insane brilliance of Xzar. It saddens me greatly. I hope you all suffocate in my tears BWHAHAHAHAHA
    *runs away laughing and/or crying*
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    My personal party would be:

    Kagain
    Dorn (Behind him, he's much better at a damager role than the tank)
    Monty (Just worry about traps primarily, knock gets rid of the pesky lock issues and you can get gear easily to make up for the stealth worries)
    Edwin

    Herm. This is a problem, if you want Viconia then you need to take or kill off Xzar. If you take Xzar then you are sorely missing a healer until you get a tome of wisdom (and ideally Xzar up to level 7 iirc). Definitely a conundrum. I know what I'll be thinking about for the next few hours.
  • Time4TiddyTime4Tiddy Member Posts: 262
    One point that hasn't really been brought up is Xzar's role in a "canon" evil party. Given that he and Montaron want to address the issues in the Nashkel mines, and then that there is additional unique dialogue when you get to Baldur's Gate, it's clear these two are the Khalid/Jaheira of an evil party - designed to be with you from start to finish. Edwin, eh, I always hated his low AC and his awful staff spec.
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    @Dragonspear, got an easy solution for you. leave Kagain alone, get Yeslick. they're pretty similar, high con, low dex (fixed with gloves), okay-ish str (fixed with Strength spell and DUHM), except... Yeslick is a multiclass fighter/cleric, and a damn good one at that. (higher wis then Vicky)
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