And what about some really young dragon or very old and sick dragon ? Dragons are cool and was miss them in BG1...
The Older a dragon is, the more powerful he become. Age works different to dragons, unlike other species ( if i'm not wrong they're imortal in fact), a Great Wyrm (the elderst point a dragon reach) they have status equivalent to a tarrasque for example.
There are two things to keep in mind if there a dragon being added to BGEE: 1) The dragon is part of a 100% optional quest, one that requires a high level party and some serious trail-blazing to get to. 2) Killing the dragon is optional for this quest. This has already been done before with the red dragon in BG2. Killing the red wasn't required so in some cases we would leave the cave and return at a higher level.
I don't know any true player of baldur's gate that would leave a challenging hard quest behind? Optional is the same that "honor matter" to anyone that truly love this game. In fact all dragon fights in BG2 are optional (except the black dragon in the elven nation). As i said, i would prefer that dragons, demi lichs, beholders and demons (except aec'letec) to be kept as BG2 content, otherwise BG2 as i said before gonna lose it's flavor.
@ShapiroKeatsDarkMage, there are some tarrasque petitions in the feature request of this forum already, a quick search on the forum can lead you to them.
I don't know any true player of baldur's gate that would leave a challenging hard quest behind? Optional is the same that "honor matter" to anyone that truly love this game. In fact all dragon fights in BG2 are optional (except the black dragon in the elven nation). As i said, i would prefer that dragons, demi lichs, beholders and demons (except aec'letec) to be kept as BG2 content, otherwise BG2 as i said before gonna lose it's flavor.
@ShapiroKeatsDarkMage, there are some tarrasque petitions in the feature request of this forum already, a quick search on the forum can lead you to them.
Maybe what the OP was intending was not NECESSARILY a 'Dragon Fight' but some battle that is NOT the final battle which consists of some beast of incredible power that can be taken down as part of a side quest. This could be anything, demon/dragon/lich/other...
I feel this provides the player with a unique challenge aside from the end of the game and helps gauge their parties strengths/weaknesses. I always loved these really obscure, out-of-the-way fights that you can find in a variety of games (eg. Dragon Age, even consider some of the BG2 dragons/liches that didn't have to be encountered) which are extremely challenging but when completed can give you some nice loot and the feeling that achieving something great.
BTW guys, BG1 goes up to level 7-8 max if i remember, ok now take old dungeon and dragon second edition rules, and try to level 7 or 8 max.
GL HF
That's vanilla BG1. With Tales of the Sword Coast, the experience cap is higher, around level 10 I think. Plus, in an old tweet, Trent Oster did say he would get eh cap a bit higher (but not too much, probably to level 11 or 12 max). If you hit that max level, some dragons are possible for expert players (I suspect hardcore gamers could do the black dragon at level 9 xD )
But yeah, I'd really want to see, if not battle, some of the monster from BG2. To shivers in fear, when you know how powerful they really are. Might makes you want to run, for a change...
I personally wouldnt feel like it was any sort of acomplishment if i killed an old sick/dying dragon.. Tho that might just be me thats at the wrong end here :P
Dude, we normally kill only 1 dragon per saga, Icewind Dale for example. In Baldur's Gate 2 we can kill a total of 10 dragons, do we really need more dragons in BG2?
Firkgaark - Red dragon in Windspear Hills. Thaxll'ssyllia - Shadow dragon in the Forgotten temple. Adalon - silver dragon in underdark. Nizidramanii`yt - Black Dragon in Suldanessar. Nameless dragon - Black Dragon in nine hells (tear of bhaal). Saladrex - Red dragon in Wacher's keep level 4. Nameless dragon - Green dragon in wacher's keep level 5. Draconis - Son of Abazigal outside Abazigal's lair (shoud be blue like his father but is a green dragon). Fll'Yissetat - Green Dragon slave to Abazigal, just outside of his lair. Abazigal - Blue dragon member of the five.
In BG1 you end up level 7-8, there is no way you could successfully face a Dragon. What makes BG1 so interesting and rewarding, is that it is consistent with a mid-level adventure. There is nearly no very powerful item (the best longsword is +2, the best full plate is +1; stealing from Drizzt is cheating ) which means that you really appreciate when you find one. Then, you become powerfull very progressively in BG2, which makes the levelling very appreciable. And you end up as a half god in ToB, which may be a little exagerated.
Maybe a dragon is extreme, but then again, the PC faced a Tanar'ri which is pretty much one of the super powers of the hells, right? (keeping also in mind that dr. Aec'Letec has his quaint death gaze attack)
That being said, the PC in the Neverwinter Nights expansion, Shadow of Undrentide, can face Tymofarrar, a white dragon at a quite low level. Granted, the battle is tough if you don't abuse a certain item that transforms you into a ice giant, but still, you can kill that dragon. So if a silly apprentice can do it (I do realize that the same apprentice ends up killing an archdevil of the Nine Hells, yes) why couldn't a child of a god?
BG1/ToSC new side quest with a dragon (for party Level 9-12) could be DLC. Those who feel it would harm the game could opt not to download it. Or simply uninstall the component a la mods, if they don't like it.
I agree that, ideally, it should involve substantial RP with an option to avoid the fight.
Defeating a dragon with a party Level 9-12 is not that outrageous, really.
Well, this idea just doesn't seem necessary to me. There are plenty of dragons throughout the Baldur's Gate games, and I think we've all seen what over-saturation of dragons looks like (skyrim)... The more encounters with something epic like this, the less meaningful the encounters become. I don't think it's impossible to defeat a dragon in BG1 (although it would certainly be difficult), especially with the XP cap increase that will be implemented for enhanced edition, I'd just prefer that if a challenge were to be added, that it would be something else. There are plenty of other possibilities besides dragons in D&D that would provide a great optional challenge.
On the other hand, it's possible that there really are enough challenges in general in BG1 and so adding some new epic monster of some sort to fight would just be superfluous. People are mentioning that we do fight the Tanar'ri at the end of TotSC, so is a dragon or some other powerful foe really too difficult? Probably not, but is it really necessary? Those that go out of the way to seek out all the challenges in the game will have probably already hit the level cap by the time the end of the game is nearing, so some new enemy will just make sure that you hit the cap, or will just be unable to provide XP if you already have.
They've undoubtedly already crafted the new adventures and the new enemies that will be present in them, so it just seem like a bit much to me to need more apart from what's in the vanilla game and all the enemies surely present in adventures X and Y.
Would it be more appropriate to have an encounter where you have to escape a dragon, fleeing forwards getting around obstacles etc before it catches up with you and butchers you. In order to make this more plausible, perhaps the dragon isn't even after you, you are just in the way.
Wizard hires you to protect him from a rival.. who he has insulted, turns out rival was a dragon in human form, things get way out of hand, wizard can delay dragon etc to explain how you might be able to out pace one. I don't think there is an encounter like this in the game, so it would add a little variety. Bonus points if it is a red dragon whos name is an anagram of the one we meet in bg2.
I'd be OK adding in a dragon NPC you can choose to attack (likely to your own peril), but I don't think adding an enemy dragon which is feasibly defeatable makes sense in BG1. Imo, it would only serve to cheapen the experience later.
Yup, I agree. Having a dragon that would kick your arse if you tried to attack it would be somewhat neat. Having a dragon as a villain that you don't have to fight at the end would be even cooler, even if it is just a really young one. Though that would probably need a half-a-game's worth of quests/story to set up, so maybe not.
Even more than any dragon I would like to see some kind of villain that isn't used repetively through the games, though. Using dragons so much feels like laziness from the designers to me at times; it's like a cheap shortcut to making a powerful antagonist, you just throw in another dragon and that's supposed to make the player go "Oh my, a dragon!" (again, even though he might already have beat several of them) rather than set the antagonist up as a dangerous for trough the plot and proper storytelling. In short, variety is good, and there must be plenty of other kinds of critters that can make good and imposing villains (and even make for "epic" fights, if that's your kind of thing).
I don't know any true player of baldur's gate that would leave a challenging hard quest behind? Optional is the same that "honor matter" to anyone that truly love this game. In fact all dragon fights in BG2 are optional (except the black dragon in the elven nation). As i said, i would prefer that dragons, demi lichs, beholders and demons (except aec'letec) to be kept as BG2 content, otherwise BG2 as i said before gonna lose it's flavor.
@ShapiroKeatsDarkMage, there are some tarrasque petitions in the feature request of this forum already, a quick search on the forum can lead you to them.
I was saracstic.
I'd just like to point out, this dragon is optional, you can avoid killing him
There are only two dragons you MUST defeat. Draconis and Abazigal, and both are near the end of ToB, at a very high level
*snip* ...and I think we've all seen what over-saturation of dragons looks like (skyrim)... *snip*
The horror... THE HORROR
In general: Have a bit of respect for dragons, please! A dragon should be an impressive enemy. It now seems people so desperately want to kill a dragon in BG1, they don't mind if it is a baby (A BABY!!), sick, wounded or commits suicide in front of you. That is the fantasy equivalent of robbing old people.
Comments
Dragons are not immortal.
1) The dragon is part of a 100% optional quest, one that requires a high level party and some serious trail-blazing to get to.
2) Killing the dragon is optional for this quest. This has already been done before with the red dragon in BG2. Killing the red wasn't required so in some cases we would leave the cave and return at a higher level.
@ShapiroKeatsDarkMage, there are some tarrasque petitions in the feature request of this forum already, a quick search on the forum can lead you to them.
GL HF
I feel this provides the player with a unique challenge aside from the end of the game and helps gauge their parties strengths/weaknesses. I always loved these really obscure, out-of-the-way fights that you can find in a variety of games (eg. Dragon Age, even consider some of the BG2 dragons/liches that didn't have to be encountered) which are extremely challenging but when completed can give you some nice loot and the feeling that achieving something great.
But yeah, I'd really want to see, if not battle, some of the monster from BG2. To shivers in fear, when you know how powerful they really are. Might makes you want to run, for a change...
Fighters/Paladins/Rangers capped out at level 8. Thieves could reach level 11 I think.
Firkgaark - Red dragon in Windspear Hills.
Thaxll'ssyllia - Shadow dragon in the Forgotten temple.
Adalon - silver dragon in underdark.
Nizidramanii`yt - Black Dragon in Suldanessar.
Nameless dragon - Black Dragon in nine hells (tear of bhaal).
Saladrex - Red dragon in Wacher's keep level 4.
Nameless dragon - Green dragon in wacher's keep level 5.
Draconis - Son of Abazigal outside Abazigal's lair (shoud be blue like his father but is a green dragon).
Fll'Yissetat - Green Dragon slave to Abazigal, just outside of his lair.
Abazigal - Blue dragon member of the five.
kamuizin you earned another insightful
Then, you become powerfull very progressively in BG2, which makes the levelling very appreciable. And you end up as a half god in ToB, which may be a little exagerated.
That being said, the PC in the Neverwinter Nights expansion, Shadow of Undrentide, can face Tymofarrar, a white dragon at a quite low level. Granted, the battle is tough if you don't abuse a certain item that transforms you into a ice giant, but still, you can kill that dragon. So if a silly apprentice can do it (I do realize that the same apprentice ends up killing an archdevil of the Nine Hells, yes) why couldn't a child of a god?
I agree that, ideally, it should involve substantial RP with an option to avoid the fight.
Defeating a dragon with a party Level 9-12 is not that outrageous, really.
On the other hand, it's possible that there really are enough challenges in general in BG1 and so adding some new epic monster of some sort to fight would just be superfluous. People are mentioning that we do fight the Tanar'ri at the end of TotSC, so is a dragon or some other powerful foe really too difficult? Probably not, but is it really necessary? Those that go out of the way to seek out all the challenges in the game will have probably already hit the level cap by the time the end of the game is nearing, so some new enemy will just make sure that you hit the cap, or will just be unable to provide XP if you already have.
They've undoubtedly already crafted the new adventures and the new enemies that will be present in them, so it just seem like a bit much to me to need more apart from what's in the vanilla game and all the enemies surely present in adventures X and Y.
Wizard hires you to protect him from a rival.. who he has insulted, turns out rival was a dragon in human form, things get way out of hand, wizard can delay dragon etc to explain how you might be able to out pace one. I don't think there is an encounter like this in the game, so it would add a little variety. Bonus points if it is a red dragon whos name is an anagram of the one we meet in bg2.
Even more than any dragon I would like to see some kind of villain that isn't used repetively through the games, though. Using dragons so much feels like laziness from the designers to me at times; it's like a cheap shortcut to making a powerful antagonist, you just throw in another dragon and that's supposed to make the player go "Oh my, a dragon!" (again, even though he might already have beat several of them) rather than set the antagonist up as a dangerous for trough the plot and proper storytelling. In short, variety is good, and there must be plenty of other kinds of critters that can make good and imposing villains (and even make for "epic" fights, if that's your kind of thing).
young dragons is not cool killing, 'cause of their mother or else. And like NWN_babayaga told, it's not heroic.
I'd just like to point out, this dragon is optional, you can avoid killing him
There are only two dragons you MUST defeat. Draconis and Abazigal, and both are near the end of ToB, at a very high level
In general:
Have a bit of respect for dragons, please! A dragon should be an impressive enemy. It now seems people so desperately want to kill a dragon in BG1, they don't mind if it is a baby (A BABY!!), sick, wounded or commits suicide in front of you. That is the fantasy equivalent of robbing old people.