@Helias I agree. But if you dual from fighter to thief with two profs in a weapon at level 3, you can nab grand mastery, due to a wrinkle in bg2's engine. I like to take advantage of that wrinkle.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. To clarify, when leveling from 2 (shar teel's lowest level) to three fighter you put the third pip into your weapon of choice, then dual thief. At levels 4 and 8, you get new prof that can be put into your three pip weapon, netting you grandmastery.
My mistake. It's the reason I slide her dagger prof to longsword in NI though.
One thing I do when I start a new game is get all the characters before I level- I did this again but completely forgot about Shartell and the Pali so the Pali ended up being level 2... But the rest of them I think I got at level 1.... then I put them all in the Friendly Amn Inn which works fine as long as you stay at the staring 11-12ish reputation. The monk is actually a complete wash from a powergamer prospective- much worse than Sharteel have to turn off the lantern AI and make him run away or be a cowardly sling stone girl like the Somali slinger who tore a whole through this Marines jaw when he was laughing at the foolish looking weapon... But yeah if I recall right she was Large sword/Small Sword proficient in the original so dagger long sword is applicable
Maybe they did that to hint at dual-classing her to Thief. I can imagine Shar-Teel dual-wielding Varscona and the Dagger of Venom while hiding in shadows.
Maybe they did that to hint at dual-classing her to Thief. I can imagine Shar-Teel dual-wielding Varscona and the Dagger of Venom while hiding in shadows.
You can't backstab with dual weapon.
Of course you can. But not with both at the same time, obviously.
Maybe they did that to hint at dual-classing her to Thief. I can imagine Shar-Teel dual-wielding Varscona and the Dagger of Venom while hiding in shadows.
You can't backstab with dual weapon.
You can backstab while dual wielding as long as the weapon in your primary hand is a melee weapon a thief can use and all the other prereqs are met. (If you were talking about two-handed weapons, the only one that works is the quarterstaff).
@quartz Good! I actually posted a solution about two posts lower. Sorry you had to figure it out yourself. Probably should have messaged you instead. My bad.
@quartz Good! I actually posted a solution about two posts lower. Sorry you had to figure it out yourself. Probably should have messaged you instead. My bad.
@Deucetipher Ahh I see it now! Yes I did something similar. Thanks a lot regardless, there were some other things I kept tripping over that required reference to your short guide so it helped very much.
I would of prefered that she just had pips in longsword & Shortsword (or dagger) & not had any in TWF. I always dual her into a thief, she's the best fighter/thief in the game (to me).
When I've played a fighter/thief as my PC I typically use twf so it makes sense. In her case I was planning to have her use single weapon style but it's no great tragedy.
@Aasimar069 and @Elminster / @EnterHaerDalis I think because Dorn is already the offtank guy who wields a two handed weapon...and has a poison weapon ability, so they probably thought Shar-Teel was kind of redundant and better as an obvious dual class to thief choice. Which sucks on one hand because she could get Grandmastery in swords in the original.
But...be that as it may...she's still kind of amazing. Level her to 7/8 Fighter/Thief for the extra 1/2 attack.
Then give her the following proficiencies:
Level 3 fighter: ++ Dagger. Level 6 fighter: +++ Dagger. Level 1 Thief: + Dagger (which should stack when she regains her levels putting her at ++++ for mastery in Daggers) Level 4 Thief: + Two Weapon Style (which should stack when she regains her fighter levels, putting her at +++) Level 8 Thief: + Scimitar (So you can put Twinkle the +2Defender on her if you want for AC bonus in her offhand), or if that's going to another character possibly + Shortbow or Crossbow to make sure she has a ranged weapon.
The + in Longsword is useful for Harrower +1/+3 Vs Undead or the +2 Longsword +1 ice Damage which can be put in her offhand.
She can't quite get Grand Mastery...but this way she'll get close to it and an extra 1/2 attack per round.
If you give her the Dagger of Venom and the Gollem's heart +2 Dagger, she'll have two +2 weapons with huge bonuses and Poison damage to interrupt casters.
If you're really upset with that + in Longsword just Shadowkeeper it to Dagger at that point giving her GrandMastery in Daggers. You might be sacrificing the x4backstab at level 7/8...but the extra attacks / chance to hit and poison will be invaluable against casters. And with her high strength and the right items she can have a very low AC, offtank and wreck house with two weapons, doing a lot more damage than most of the two handed swords in the game ever would do.
Unless I'm wrong...but I think they stacked when I tried it early on after downloading the game.
@debaser: sadly, dual classing weapon pips do not stack. You'd have to do it thusly: lvl 3 ftr: Dagger 2 lvl 6 ftr: Dagger 3 lvl 1 thf: two throwaways, like scimitar and short bow then when you hit lvl 3 as thief, do not hit the level up button until you have enough exp to hit level 7 (if dueled at 6) or 8 (if dueled at 7), then when you level up, you will have the pip from thief level 4 saved up and the fighter ability to specialize will reactivate, and you can reach GM in dagger (or longsword) if you so wish.
@Revaar ahhh, then that's the way to do it, there's no reason not to at least go to level 6 with her then for that bonus...and 7 does become better for the extra 1/2 an attack. Even if her backstabs stay at x3. though Scimitar and Shortbow aren't totally worthless choices. I think you're making good calls all the way 'round.
I'm not all that crazy about basically being forced into using Shar-Teel as a Fighter-Thief. But honestly, with those profs what else to do? (Versus hacking the character.)
She does indeed make a great Fighter-Thief. When I do get around to using her, I'll try her out with long sword and dagger of venom for her backstabs. I'll dual her at level 3.
Well, I never once picked Shar-Teel in EE yet, but from what I see here... Her weapon profs are bullshit. Cruel, agressive, well-builded woman is "proficent" with a dagger, from all of things. Look, Overhaul, if you want to surprise me, do it in more positive way, alright? She was supposed to be "brute-force" type of fighter, goddamnit...
Actually yes, there are people who don't want to dual her to thief. That's because, from role-playing point of view, dual-classing have no slightest sense. "Hey, I'm a fighter and I want to be a thief. That means that the moment I'm making this decission I feel like I was never holding a sword before...Even if I used to be grand master at it".
I know that in pure unmodded BG Shar-Teel was specialized in large swords plus she was holding 2-handed sword, which should suggest something... So what went wrong here?
Well, I never once picked Shar-Teel in EE yet, but from what I see here... Her weapon profs are bullshit. Cruel, agressive, well-builded woman is "proficent" with a dagger, from all of things. Look, Overhaul, if you want to surprise me, do it in more positive way, alright? She was supposed to be "brute-force" type of fighter, goddamnit...
Actually yes, there are people who don't want to dual her to thief. That's because, from role-playing point of view, dual-classing have no slightest sense. "Hey, I'm a fighter and I want to be a thief. That means that the moment I'm making this decission I feel like I was never holding a sword before...Even if I used to be grand master at it".
I know that in pure unmodded BG Shar-Teel was specialized in large swords plus she was holding 2-handed sword, which should suggest something... So what went wrong here?
"I want to stab those useless males! I want to stab them right in their pathetic little kidneys rragghh!"
as good a reason as any. though she is chaotic evil... not exactly an alignment known for their well-thought-out outlook on life.
BTW in the current build of BGEE *throwing* daggers also get the strength damage bonus (and *two* attacks per round), so they're actually pretty lethal in the hands of a high strength character like Shar-teel, even with only one proficiency point in daggers she does 4-7 base damage with them, which is comparable with the 3-8 from a composite bow and the same number of attacks. Of course they have more carry weight than arrows and there are no magical ones in BGEE, but as a "free" ranged weapon proficiency pick, it's not bad, *especially* as you can get mastery in daggers and may want to go this route anyway with Shar-Teel to use the dagger of venom (or earlier on the +2 Heart of Golum)
BTW in the current build of BGEE *throwing* daggers also get the strength damage bonus (and *two* attacks per round), so they're actually pretty lethal in the hands of a high strength character like Shar-teel, even with only one proficiency point in daggers she does 4-7 base damage with them, which is comparable with the 3-8 from a composite bow and the same number of attacks. Of course they have more carry weight than arrows and there are no magical ones in BGEE, but as a "free" ranged weapon proficiency pick, it's not bad, *especially* as you can get mastery in daggers and may want to go this route anyway with Shar-Teel to use the dagger of venom (or earlier on the +2 Heart of Golum)
In fact even dual-wielding daggers is not bad, as it's pretty easy to get two +2 daggers (one of them the dagger of venom) relatively early on, if you have enough gold
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall she was 2 pips in Large Swords, 2 pips in Small Swords, and carried a long sword, something Gamebanshee suggests also:
Incidentally, I ran an F/M/T dagger specialist with 18/57 that tomed up to 19 Strength, and he was out-damaging Dorn constantly, especially with the Dagger of Venom bonus. People seriously overestimate the value of the damage die when the average damage difference between 1D4 and 1D10 is "3".
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I agree. But if you dual from fighter to thief with two profs in a weapon at level 3, you can nab grand mastery, due to a wrinkle in bg2's engine. I like to take advantage of that wrinkle.
No, you can't because only two points (one at level 4 and one at level 8) are possible, not three.
My mistake. It's the reason I slide her dagger prof to longsword in NI though.
Good! I actually posted a solution about two posts lower. Sorry you had to figure it out yourself. Probably should have messaged you instead. My bad.
Ahh I see it now! Yes I did something similar. Thanks a lot regardless, there were some other things I kept tripping over that required reference to your short guide so it helped very much.
When I've played a fighter/thief as my PC I typically use twf so it makes sense. In her case I was planning to have her use single weapon style but it's no great tragedy.
It is not ideal, but she is doing okay with the light crossbow of speed, and she can quickly swap to her +2 longsword for backstabs.
But...be that as it may...she's still kind of amazing. Level her to 7/8 Fighter/Thief for the extra 1/2 attack.
Then give her the following proficiencies:
Level 3 fighter: ++ Dagger.
Level 6 fighter: +++ Dagger.
Level 1 Thief: + Dagger (which should stack when she regains her levels putting her at ++++ for mastery in Daggers)
Level 4 Thief: + Two Weapon Style (which should stack when she regains her fighter levels, putting her at +++)
Level 8 Thief: + Scimitar (So you can put Twinkle the +2Defender on her if you want for AC bonus in her offhand), or if that's going to another character possibly + Shortbow or Crossbow to make sure she has a ranged weapon.
The + in Longsword is useful for Harrower +1/+3 Vs Undead or the +2 Longsword +1 ice Damage which can be put in her offhand.
She can't quite get Grand Mastery...but this way she'll get close to it and an extra 1/2 attack per round.
If you give her the Dagger of Venom and the Gollem's heart +2 Dagger, she'll have two +2 weapons with huge bonuses and Poison damage to interrupt casters.
If you're really upset with that + in Longsword just Shadowkeeper it to Dagger at that point giving her GrandMastery in Daggers. You might be sacrificing the x4backstab at level 7/8...but the extra attacks / chance to hit and poison will be invaluable against casters. And with her high strength and the right items she can have a very low AC, offtank and wreck house with two weapons, doing a lot more damage than most of the two handed swords in the game ever would do.
Unless I'm wrong...but I think they stacked when I tried it early on after downloading the game.
lvl 3 ftr: Dagger 2
lvl 6 ftr: Dagger 3
lvl 1 thf: two throwaways, like scimitar and short bow
then when you hit lvl 3 as thief, do not hit the level up button until you have enough exp to hit level 7 (if dueled at 6) or 8 (if dueled at 7), then when you level up, you will have the pip from thief level 4 saved up and the fighter ability to specialize will reactivate, and you can reach GM in dagger (or longsword) if you so wish.
She does indeed make a great Fighter-Thief. When I do get around to using her, I'll try her out with long sword and dagger of venom for her backstabs. I'll dual her at level 3.
Are there people who DON'T dual Shar-Teel to a Thief?!
Actually yes, there are people who don't want to dual her to thief. That's because, from role-playing point of view, dual-classing have no slightest sense. "Hey, I'm a fighter and I want to be a thief. That means that the moment I'm making this decission I feel like I was never holding a sword before...Even if I used to be grand master at it".
I know that in pure unmodded BG Shar-Teel was specialized in large swords plus she was holding 2-handed sword, which should suggest something... So what went wrong here?
as good a reason as any. though she is chaotic evil... not exactly an alignment known for their well-thought-out outlook on life.
I may be wrong, but I seem to recall she was 2 pips in Large Swords, 2 pips in Small Swords, and carried a long sword, something Gamebanshee suggests also:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/companions/shar-teel.php
Incidentally, I ran an F/M/T dagger specialist with 18/57 that tomed up to 19 Strength, and he was out-damaging Dorn constantly, especially with the Dagger of Venom bonus. People seriously overestimate the value of the damage die when the average damage difference between 1D4 and 1D10 is "3".