anomen for his versatility and for being the only lawful character I want to punch. He may not be a paladin, but as a fighter/cleric that is good enough.
I got soooo disappointed with paladins and lawful good alignment in general after I completed Keldorn's personal quest that I just can't vote for Keldorn. But Ajantis was there with me way before BG2, and surely he deserves a vote for his rather cruel fate in the second part of the game.
I agree about Keldorn and paladins. I became very disillusioned about paladins and 'good' characters after learning that it was lawful good for Keldorn to have his wife imprisoned and her lover murdered as well as for him to support Viconia being killed and try to kill her himself.
I don't completely agree about Ajantis having a "cruel fate" in BG2. I think it was implied in BG2 that Ajantis is likely also racist and that is what caused him to die. He attacked the PC & party because he thought that they were ogres and that it was impossible for an ogre to be good. No matter what the PC said, Ajantis would still attack because in his mind ogres are always evil. Madulf and his followers in the Umar Hills prove that this is not the case, so in my opinion, Ajantis proved himself to be yet another murderous racist paladin and got exactly what he deserved.
However, I did like Ajantis back in BG1 before I knew any of that about paladins. Back then he seemed like such a nice guy. Now all his religiously-inspired speeches about "honor" make me think about the 'honor killings' religious fundamentalists carry out in real life and how comparable he may be to those perpetrators.
I got soooo disappointed with paladins and lawful good alignment in general after I completed Keldorn's personal quest that I just can't vote for Keldorn. But Ajantis was there with me way before BG2, and surely he deserves a vote for his rather cruel fate in the second part of the game.
I agree about Keldorn and paladins. I became very disillusioned about paladins and 'good' characters after learning that it was lawful good for Keldorn to have his wife imprisoned and her lover murdered as well as for him to support Viconia being killed and try to kill her himself.
I don't completely agree about Ajantis having a "cruel fate" in BG2. I think it was implied in BG2 that Ajantis is likely also racist and that is what caused him to die. He attacked the PC & party because he thought that they were ogres and that it was impossible for an ogre to be good. No matter what the PC said, Ajantis would still attack because in his mind ogres are always evil. Madulf and his followers in the Umar Hills prove that this is not the case, so in my opinion, Ajantis proved himself to be yet another murderous racist paladin and got exactly what he deserved.
However, I did like Ajantis back in BG1 before I knew any of that about paladins. Back then he seemed like such a nice guy. Now all his religiously-inspired speeches about "honor" make me think about the 'honor killings' religious fundamentalists carry out in real life and how comparable he may be to those perpetrators.
Hmm.. Does Keldorns alingment change at all if you take him down the path of "imprison the wife and murder the lover," route? Do you realise you can influence Keldorn not to do these things? I used keldorn through all of SoA and ToB, however I never made him kill his wifes lover and imprison her because when you hear her reasons it makes sense, and it makes sense to Keldorn as well.
Like I said Ive never had keldorn do these things, so in my playthrough Keldorn seemed good, wise, well rounded and much, much more down to earth than other religious zealots like Anomen (didnt use ajantis enough to comment).
As for the "racist" comments. Yes, in our real world things are not so black and white and one cannot distinguish anothers personallity (or "alignment") due to their race/colour. However this is not the real world, it is FR. In FR, 99.9% of drow ARE evil, as are ogres (probably anyway, not 100% sure). Also worth pointing out that gods are proven to exist in that world ie miracles, spells, and in some cases physical appearances. I suppose you could conclude that yes, Paladins are racist but they have good reason to be in the world they are in. Also whether you agree on FRs perception of good and evil is a different topic entirely.
I got soooo disappointed with paladins and lawful good alignment in general after I completed Keldorn's personal quest that I just can't vote for Keldorn. But Ajantis was there with me way before BG2, and surely he deserves a vote for his rather cruel fate in the second part of the game.
I agree about Keldorn and paladins. I became very disillusioned about paladins and 'good' characters after learning that it was lawful good for Keldorn to have his wife imprisoned and her lover murdered as well as for him to support Viconia being killed and try to kill her himself.
I don't completely agree about Ajantis having a "cruel fate" in BG2. I think it was implied in BG2 that Ajantis is likely also racist and that is what caused him to die. He attacked the PC & party because he thought that they were ogres and that it was impossible for an ogre to be good. No matter what the PC said, Ajantis would still attack because in his mind ogres are always evil. Madulf and his followers in the Umar Hills prove that this is not the case, so in my opinion, Ajantis proved himself to be yet another murderous racist paladin and got exactly what he deserved.
However, I did like Ajantis back in BG1 before I knew any of that about paladins. Back then he seemed like such a nice guy. Now all his religiously-inspired speeches about "honor" make me think about the 'honor killings' religious fundamentalists carry out in real life and how comparable he may be to those perpetrators.
Hmm.. Does Keldorns alingment change at all if you take him down the path of "imprison the wife and murder the lover," route? Do you realise you can influence Keldorn not to do these things? I used keldorn through all of SoA and ToB, however I never made him kill his wifes lover and imprison her because when you hear her reasons it makes sense, and it makes sense to Keldorn as well.
Like I said Ive never had keldorn do these things, so in my playthrough Keldorn seemed good, wise, well rounded and much, much more down to earth than other religious zealots like Anomen (didnt use ajantis enough to comment).
As for the "racist" comments. Yes, in our real world things are not so black and white and one cannot distinguish anothers personallity (or "alignment") due to their race/colour. However this is not the real world, it is FR. In FR, 99.9% of drow ARE evil, as are ogres (probably anyway, not 100% sure). Also worth pointing out that gods are proven to exist in that world ie miracles, spells, and in some cases physical appearances. I suppose you could conclude that yes, Paladins are racist but they have good reason to be in the world they are in. Also whether you agree on FRs perception of good and evil is a different topic entirely.
Paladin's have the Black vs white view of the world and that really mucks their presonallties up but I go with Ajantis 9/10 play thoughs of BG1, and Keldorn a lot less than that. Remember Paladin code in FR is Good must prevail and all Evil must be punished, in Viconia's case she's a drow therefor she must be evil. Same logic hits Drizzit often too if you read on him.
I got soooo disappointed with paladins and lawful good alignment in general after I completed Keldorn's personal quest that I just can't vote for Keldorn. But Ajantis was there with me way before BG2, and surely he deserves a vote for his rather cruel fate in the second part of the game.
I agree about Keldorn and paladins. I became very disillusioned about paladins and 'good' characters after learning that it was lawful good for Keldorn to have his wife imprisoned and her lover murdered as well as for him to support Viconia being killed and try to kill her himself.
I'd let myself to go back to that statement as I think Keldorn is one of the most "psychologically convincing" characters in the series (and I really dislike all of these idealistic flawless/doubtless shinyknights). But then was it really that Viconia is a drow that makes Keldorn despise her so much? As I can remember he's been praising quite a lot on the another drow(ish) character which is Drizzt. Is that only me who thinks that a murderous, *evil-aligned* cleric of the cruel goddess of darkess should be smitten by any reputable knight on the spot...? ;-)
Keldorn's quest had the sort of shades-of-grey moral dilemma that I really enjoy in games like these, and his power as an inquisitor is great. I was very young the first time I played BG2 and hadn't figured out the magic system enough to reliably take down enemy mages, so Keldorn's ultra-dispel was the carpet bomb that I needed to beat the game for the first time.
Mazzy is definitely a paladin in my book, but I'm still rating Keldorn slightly higher than her.
Edit: Also, I don't get why people seem to think Keldorn's quest is somehow tough or there are no good choices or whatever. I stumbled upon the best ending by accident the first time I did it.
Mazzy by far. I have to choose that option. But if she wasn't an option, then my vote would go to Ajantis. Wish he were a full companion character in BG2.
Last playthrough, I hit the wrong button and got Mrs Keldorn imprisoned - the law must be super strict, if you can be imprisoned for going on a date when married? Didn't affect his alignment, rep or paladin powers. Didn't find Keldorn or Anomen's quests to be "satisfying" - should have had more options.
the law must be super strict, if you can be imprisoned for going on a date when married?
Not just a date, they were outright sleeping together. And unfortunately, that's how it really was in medieval society - in fact, in a less Lawful Good city, she could've easily been killed for it.
Mazzy all the way; she's a paladin in all but name, and a better one than any other one in the series (though Keldorn comes a close second). I love having both of them in my party because of the way they support each other in their banters. Mazzy in general is great in a good party for her banters (My favorite is still the one she and Aerie share in the Temple of Lathander).
Keldorn. He has a great voice set to listen to if you use him as party leader. The only downside is you feel guilty for making him come with you when he should be retiring with his wife.
His epilogue is probably my favorite. Holding back an army as an old dude? Appearing as an apparition ever afterward at helm's side? I get a shiver just thinking about it.
Always had a soft spot for Mazzy, though I think it's in much due to Jennifer Hale's voice.
Am very very tempted to give the Paladin-kit for her (by mod, i think it's called Truesword of Arvoreen) a try! As she is as close to a Paladin a halfling ever can get....she might only finally get rid of their shortsword and grab some real weapons, like longswords as halfling/warriors are supposed to be specialized in.
Topic: Mazzy ^^ though she didn't fit in my last run (a slightly bit too evil ... *whistle*), but will definitely be a part in my next one
Can't anything say about Keldorn yet, but I plan to use him as well..given that my current warrior will be dualed in BG2 to cleric. I can only imagine, that he will be very happy to get Carsomyr, as I usually sell it And Anomen is a wuzz, only used him in my very first run, but he is bit too whiny for me....I count him a parttime-paladin but with a missing backbone.
As much as I like Ajantis, I prefer Keldorn. (I also never bring Ajantis, mostly because I usually play Neutral, so I can pick up Edwin, and usually Viconia, along with Imoen.)
But Mazzy is much more the epitome of a paladin than even Keldorn is. The sheer fact that she is not actually a "paladin" while still keeping to a paladin's code of ethics means she's more of a paladin to me than the "real" ones.
Ajantis is too naive for me, but he does fit the Paladin archetype well. I have said this before, but I just wish that Keldorn with his 12 Intelligence and 16 Wisdom could solve his own Marital dispute. Mazzy is forever, and will forever be, a paladin to me. I will mod that for sure in BG2:EE if they don't change it.
@DrEast Wasn't sure whether to count Dorn. I mean, yeah Blackguard is a Paladin kit, but they're not really so much paladins as, you know, anti-paladins.
Comments
I don't completely agree about Ajantis having a "cruel fate" in BG2. I think it was implied in BG2 that Ajantis is likely also racist and that is what caused him to die. He attacked the PC & party because he thought that they were ogres and that it was impossible for an ogre to be good. No matter what the PC said, Ajantis would still attack because in his mind ogres are always evil. Madulf and his followers in the Umar Hills prove that this is not the case, so in my opinion, Ajantis proved himself to be yet another murderous racist paladin and got exactly what he deserved.
However, I did like Ajantis back in BG1 before I knew any of that about paladins. Back then he seemed like such a nice guy. Now all his religiously-inspired speeches about "honor" make me think about the 'honor killings' religious fundamentalists carry out in real life and how comparable he may be to those perpetrators.
Like I said Ive never had keldorn do these things, so in my playthrough Keldorn seemed good, wise, well rounded and much, much more down to earth than other religious zealots like Anomen (didnt use ajantis enough to comment).
As for the "racist" comments. Yes, in our real world things are not so black and white and one cannot distinguish anothers personallity (or "alignment") due to their race/colour. However this is not the real world, it is FR. In FR, 99.9% of drow ARE evil, as are ogres (probably anyway, not 100% sure). Also worth pointing out that gods are proven to exist in that world ie miracles, spells, and in some cases physical appearances. I suppose you could conclude that yes, Paladins are racist but they have good reason to be in the world they are in. Also whether you agree on FRs perception of good and evil is a different topic entirely.
Like I said Ive never had keldorn do these things, so in my playthrough Keldorn seemed good, wise, well rounded and much, much more down to earth than other religious zealots like Anomen (didnt use ajantis enough to comment).
As for the "racist" comments. Yes, in our real world things are not so black and white and one cannot distinguish anothers personallity (or "alignment") due to their race/colour. However this is not the real world, it is FR. In FR, 99.9% of drow ARE evil, as are ogres (probably anyway, not 100% sure). Also worth pointing out that gods are proven to exist in that world ie miracles, spells, and in some cases physical appearances. I suppose you could conclude that yes, Paladins are racist but they have good reason to be in the world they are in. Also whether you agree on FRs perception of good and evil is a different topic entirely.
Edit: Also, I don't get why people seem to think Keldorn's quest is somehow tough or there are no good choices or whatever. I stumbled upon the best ending by accident the first time I did it.
Didn't find Keldorn or Anomen's quests to be "satisfying" - should have had more options.
Seriously though, I love the dude's story
His epilogue is probably my favorite. Holding back an army as an old dude? Appearing as an apparition ever afterward at helm's side? I get a shiver just thinking about it.
Topic: Mazzy ^^ though she didn't fit in my last run (a slightly bit too evil ... *whistle*), but will definitely be a part in my next one
Can't anything say about Keldorn yet, but I plan to use him as well..given that my current warrior will be dualed in BG2 to cleric. I can only imagine, that he will be very happy to get Carsomyr, as I usually sell it
And Anomen is a wuzz, only used him in my very first run, but he is bit too whiny for me....I count him a parttime-paladin but with a missing backbone.
But Mazzy is much more the epitome of a paladin than even Keldorn is. The sheer fact that she is not actually a "paladin" while still keeping to a paladin's code of ethics means she's more of a paladin to me than the "real" ones.
I have said this before, but I just wish that Keldorn with his 12 Intelligence and 16 Wisdom could solve his own Marital dispute.
Mazzy is forever, and will forever be, a paladin to me. I will mod that for sure in BG2:EE if they don't change it.
Wasn't sure whether to count Dorn. I mean, yeah Blackguard is a Paladin kit, but they're not really so much paladins as, you know, anti-paladins.