A legit method to keep items from Obe's training (AR2643)
IN1
Member Posts: 168
Since the export->import bug was reported, registered, and will allegedly get fixed in one of the upcoming patches, people won't be able to exploit it anymore at certain point (though, in all honesty, it seems very clear to me that export->import with items is blatant cheating -- sure, it's an in-game feature, but so is CLUA Сonsole, after all).
Here is a legitimate in-game way to obtain those items:
http://youtu.be/AP09AZ3O7Eg
Basically, you need a LN mage or sorcerer with Find Familiar to pull this off. Just make your ferret pickpocket your temporary teammates for two items of your choice (I'd take a Wand of the Heavens -- 10,000 gp never hurt -- and a Small Shield +1).
Here is a legitimate in-game way to obtain those items:
http://youtu.be/AP09AZ3O7EgBasically, you need a LN mage or sorcerer with Find Familiar to pull this off. Just make your ferret pickpocket your temporary teammates for two items of your choice (I'd take a Wand of the Heavens -- 10,000 gp never hurt -- and a Small Shield +1).
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Well, it's not BG:EE-specific. That was always the issue with LN familiars. In BG2, a ferret-type familiar could be used to smuggle Drow items out of Underdark, and even to obtain Rift Device permanently.
BTW there's a bug there too.
These tutorial NPCs have old (BG1 vanilla style) stats and weapon profs. Should be fixed.
Care to elaborate? A legitimate method, to the best of my understanding, is an intrinsic, in-game way to achieve something by intrinsic, in-game means. E. g., summoning a LN familiar and making him pickpocket people is legitimate, while exporting->importing a character or spawning items in question via CLUA Console is not.
Was a familiar even part of the game back then? No.
Arbitrary? I think they are crystal-clear.
1. BG:EE is an officially released, completely stand-alone game, not a fan-made engine conversion (I'm the last person to defend abusing BG2 Totemic Druid spirit summons in BG1 under BGTutu, for instance). Therefore, your claim as to familiar not being the part of the game back then is not applicable anymore. It is now.
2. Since I understand you are a bit ignorant as to BG2 familiar exploits (hardly a sin per se, but all you had to do was read the second post in this thread...), I'll repeat it once more, just for you: "That was always the issue with LN familiars. In BG2, a ferret-type familiar could be used to smuggle Drow items out of Underdark, and even to obtain Rift Device permanently." A familiar was the part of the game back then.
Is Invisibility a cheat? Nope. It is game-breaking, though. Are traps a cheat? Nope. They screw up the balance so hard. Is Defensivse Spin a cheat? Nope. But any competent Blade can be virtually untouchable while keeping full movement rate. Is Stupefier +1, with its no-save 25% stun on hit, a cheat? Nope. But show me another weapon that paralyzes any enemy and makes you auto-hit.
What I mean to say is that with your approach, we risk to end up proclaiming only pure Human Fighters using, dunno, axes (the least appealing melee weapon class in BG:EE) do not abuse cheating techniques.
Of course, everyone should draw a line separating between cheese and cheating for himself, there are no objective criteria in these matters. I had mine explained in detail in this thread.
I've never really done that combat tutorial more than once (since you don't gain xp from it I think?) so I'm unclear on this point, but are those people you're grouped with really supposed to be illusions? They are the default characters that can be used as player character, which to me along with the fact they can join you, always would seem to suggest they're other Candlekeep residents.
I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, after all this is a game you play by yourself or with people you know, and as such your playing style and views on what does and does not constitute cheating, does not impact me or my game-play in the slightest, which is a good thing since we clearly look quite differently on these things
Suffice to say, for me the distinction is quite clear: am I supposed to do this, or am I exploiting the fact that the computer is not a human being, and as such can't call me out on any douchey moves on my part.
@Silverstar
I'm not 100% sure if the people, too, are supposed to be illusions actually, but that's how I remember it. Like you, I rarely bother to do it - in my case, because it breaks the whole illusion of emergency that Gorion is trying to give off. Same reason I usually don't bother curing hungover guards, or finding books for careless people.
Judging by your reply to Silverstar, you are quite a RP-minded type. I can see your point, even though, to be honest, trying to pickpocket people for magical items with a familiar might not be out of character for a neutral-aligned mage
So since this is a role playing game, I'm applying THOSE standards to it as well.
In a role playing setting, you'd try to take the items from the NPCs that are given to you for group combat practice and they'd be like "why are you taking my stuff?" and you wouldn't get to leave without them having their stuff in their inventory again.
Finding some obscure trick is fine and all, but don't go ahead and claim it's legit. Amazing, I didn't recall that - that makes it even worse.
Now don't get me wrong: Play it however you like. And I would argue that it's more legit than CLUA or export/import, but "absolutely" is a very strong word.
I suppose continuing to discuss the issue with you is somewhat counter-productive, so let's leave it at that.
Well, it can be either legit or non-legit, so the superlative 'absolutely' is out of place here, indeed. I don't think there are gradations to legitimacy
Indeed. And yet you were the one to start the legitimacy discussion. With some fervor and arrogance, I might add
you do realize that I did not create this thread, which claims to have found a legit method to keep the items? So claiming I started the discussion is just wrong.
I just replayed the combat tutorial, they are not illusions, just the monsters are. Still, doesn't change the fact that they're people who wouldn't give away their possessions, and most certainly not let you leave with them.
A legit way in my book would be killing everyone and taking their stuff, or pickpocketing it. But going into their inventory and moving the items out is not pickpocketing.
Correct me if I am wrong, but when you are in the Candlekeep Catacombs, don't you meet the dwarf Arkanis and the halfling Deder? They talk about how they aren't dopplegangers and that they will help you out, so they clearly aren't illusions (unless they prove to be illusions later, in which case feel free to ignore this--but I remember them being quite real.)
I used to export/import the shield, the wand, and the plate mail, but I now don't for two reasons. 1.) I learned how to get decent early game gear without exporting/importing. 2.) I realized that I didn't need those particular items with so much money/gear available elsehwere. 3.) The gear is mostly bugged, and certain classes can use it when they shouldn't be able to. This felt wrong to me, so I decided to not use it.
Example: My Stalker and my Kensai were able to equip Arkanis's (the dwarf's) plate mail, because it is coded to work for fighters, but isn't coded to exclude kits. I assume that means that a Ranger and a Barbarian might be able to equip this Plate mail too, since it seems to exclude who can use it, rather than include who can use it (some gear might work differently).
Now can you both shut up.
@Quineloe: Knock it off. Your antagonistic tone needs to calm down.
>Now can you both shut up.
Mind your manners, please. It's not LoL forums here, you know.
@Tanthalas, I'll submit a patch to close this exploit.
Cheating accusation: It's not cheating. It's an exploit. Exploit =/= cheating.
Legit argument: It's certainly not legit either. It's an exploit. If you think an obviously unintentional, gamebreaking mistake on the developer's part is "legit" you are crazy. It's called an exploit.
That's all. Now that I haven't put any other words in to distract you, how's that?
>My Stalker and my Kensai were able to equip Arkanis's (the dwarf's) plate mail, because it is coded to >work for fighters, but isn't coded to exclude kits. I assume that means that a Ranger and a Barbarian >might be able to equip this Plate mail too, since it seems to exclude who can use it, rather than include >who can use it (some gear might work differently).
Yes to Barbarians being able to wear IPLAT01. No to some gear working differently. As far as classes/kits/races/alignments are concerned, the requirements are always defined by exclusions. Attribute scores are a different matter, however.
Excellent, thank you for that clarification. I assumed that some items, like Carsomyr in BG2, only *included* certain classes (such as the Paladin kits), but it does make more sense that they all function on exclusion (except for attribute scores).
>Haha, it's great how you don't know me.
Neither do I have any desire to know you, to be honest