My modus operandi for characters often involves utility, and a cleric/thief has just piles of utility. Others have pointed out various spell combos you can use to micromanage a powerful setup, but the reason I say this combo is awesome is because it is a toolkit that gives you what you need, especially in BG2 when there are practically no thieves running around. You have the various heals, slow poisons, attack/buff spells and thief skills you need to survive through something like Durlag's Tower, and any group of adventurers would be lucky to have you.
Final point of interest: clerics and thieves both have fast experience tables, so this isn't such a painful multiclass combo as, say, fighter/mage (both of those classes have relatively slow progressions).
as an actual character? who backstabs with goddamn quarterstaves? no. just no.
Before having played this class that would have been my initial reaction, as well.
But since having tried it out... I find that using a staff for backstabs is kind of cool actually. The character presumably would stand a bit farther back and heft a mighty swing. With an enchanted stave the high damage makes more sense than otherwise. But as we well know, not everything in AD&D is logical/realistic.
Honestly, using a quarterstaff to attack an unsuspecting enemy from behind isn't significantly less believable than using a longsword let's say. I mean the whole business of "sneaking up" on enemies, often without any sort of cover--and especially in broad daylight--isn't believable to begin with, either. It's more or less a supernatural skill akin to invisibility, such as a Shaolin monk might pull off in the mythos of martial arts films (but it's then based in spiritual energies). Indeed, a cleric-thief can Sanctuary and backstab, both, (IIRC... think so, been a long time) which is the only way "backstabbbing" is actually makes sense for those 'broad daylight with no cover' backstabs.
Anyway, just sayin'. And again, just one man's experience, but I was surprised at how satisfying it actually turned out to be to have a half-orc backstab with a stave!
Good and thought provoking post. One minor point is that you can backstab from invisibility but you can't from sanctuary.
as an actual character? who backstabs with goddamn quarterstaves? no. just no.
Before having played this class that would have been my initial reaction, as well.
But since having tried it out... I find that using a staff for backstabs is kind of cool actually. The character presumably would stand a bit farther back and heft a mighty swing. With an enchanted stave the high damage makes more sense than otherwise. But as we well know, not everything in AD&D is logical/realistic.
Honestly, using a quarterstaff to attack an unsuspecting enemy from behind isn't significantly less believable than using a longsword let's say. I mean the whole business of "sneaking up" on enemies, often without any sort of cover--and especially in broad daylight--isn't believable to begin with, either. It's more or less a supernatural skill akin to invisibility, such as a Shaolin monk might pull off in the mythos of martial arts films (but it's then based in spiritual energies). Indeed, a cleric-thief can Sanctuary and backstab, both, (IIRC... think so, been a long time) which is the only way "backstabbbing" is actually makes sense for those 'broad daylight with no cover' backstabs.
Anyway, just sayin'. And again, just one man's experience, but I was surprised at how satisfying it actually turned out to be to have a half-orc backstab with a stave!
Good and thought provoking post. One minor point is that you can backstab from invisibility but you can't from sanctuary.
True, though Sanctuary can be used to get you out of trouble after a backstab, so that you can go and hide again an repeat. You can also search for traps/open locks etc. under Sanctuary
@Darkovan O.o wow, you have some patience! the build sounds awesome, but isn't it realized only in the endgame?
that aside, i'm playing swash/cleric right now and i'm quite enjoying it. dualled at level 7... -.- seems i'm basically playing a cleric that can set traps, open locks and has minor bonuses. still better then plain cleric i think.
Ya, It did happen quite late, i did it more for the make an awesome toon fun of it though so i didn't mind, one of my earlier toons was swashy10/cleric and was also quite fun to play through most of SOA though i switched to the charname i mentioned earlier close to the end of SOA after reading a post on this forum about about summoned weapon proficiencies of all things...someone mentioned that if you had pips from an earlier duel-class the summoned weapons could still use those pips...which got me to thinking about use any item for this build.
Speaking of use any item, I'm using The Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization for the extra 1/2 attack a round, it stacks with the second longsword pip from Swashy for 2 mainhand and 1 offhand attack. 3attacks/round +haste/Improved Haste. As well as Montolio's Cloak for 0 off-hand penalty. Neither of those items are available to the build without use any item.
For me, if it is changed, cleric - thief will be one the favourite characters. The reasons also include some lack of choice between thief and cleric NPCs in BG2 if compared to fighters.
@Darkovan O.o wow, you have some patience! the build sounds awesome, but isn't it realized only in the endgame?
that aside, i'm playing swash/cleric right now and i'm quite enjoying it. dualled at level 7... -.- seems i'm basically playing a cleric that can set traps, open locks and has minor bonuses. still better then plain cleric i think.
Ya, It did happen quite late, i did it more for the make an awesome toon fun of it though so i didn't mind, one of my earlier toons was swashy10/cleric and was also quite fun to play through most of SOA though i switched to the charname i mentioned earlier close to the end of SOA after reading a post on this forum about about summoned weapon proficiencies of all things...someone mentioned that if you had pips from an earlier duel-class the summoned weapons could still use those pips...which got me to thinking about use any item for this build.
Speaking of use any item, I'm using The Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization for the extra 1/2 attack a round, it stacks with the second longsword pip from Swashy for 2 mainhand and 1 offhand attack. 3attacks/round +haste/Improved Haste. As well as Montolio's Cloak for 0 off-hand penalty. Neither of those items are available to the build without use any item.
Swashbucklers do not gain additional half-attacks from specialisation. If you gained them, 'tis a bug best reported.
Interesting. Never rolled one before because I really don't grasp the concept of someone who heals/smites and steals/backstabs at the same time. Probably because I've always seen clerics as the lawful types for good or evil while thieves are more on the fringes of society. But I wouldn't rule out a combo either.
Interesting. Never rolled one before because I really don't grasp the concept of someone who heals/smites and steals/backstabs at the same time. Probably because I've always seen clerics as the lawful types for good or evil while thieves are more on the fringes of society. But I wouldn't rule out a combo either.
This is the character concept that I dreampt up for this class. Sure enough, though, Thief and Priest is a strange combo of skills that at first glance don't seem to fit together.
Another concept to build from for Cleric-Thief is to be a priest of Mask or some other deity that fits well with thieving activity.
If anyone has read any of Scott Lynch's "Gentleman Bastards" series (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lies_of_Locke_Lamora ), There is a character called Chains, who is a priest of the Nameless Thirteenth god, the Crooked Warden, who protects thieves...
I never really thought of thieves as thieves heh, i always just considered the name to represent a path they may have taken. I was quite happy with the name change in 3.0 to rogue.
Comments
Final point of interest: clerics and thieves both have fast experience tables, so this isn't such a painful multiclass combo as, say, fighter/mage (both of those classes have relatively slow progressions).
Speaking of use any item, I'm using The Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization for the extra 1/2 attack a round, it stacks with the second longsword pip from Swashy for 2 mainhand and 1 offhand attack. 3attacks/round +haste/Improved Haste.
As well as Montolio's Cloak for 0 off-hand penalty.
Neither of those items are available to the build without use any item.
Yeah, there's already a thread about it.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/11743/clerictheif-replace-turn-undead-with-theiving-icon#latest
For me, if it is changed, cleric - thief will be one the favourite characters. The reasons also include some lack of choice between thief and cleric NPCs in BG2 if compared to fighters.
For Half-Orcs? Cyric or Mask.
Another concept to build from for Cleric-Thief is to be a priest of Mask or some other deity that fits well with thieving activity.