If you really speak about Katanas, "IRL", Katanas are 2 handed swords. Try to use it with one hand, you'll be disappointed, unless you have a very high strength ...
And even though, the weapon is designed to be wielded with both hands ...
Personally, I like that the elven bonuses affect wakizashis and katanas. It brings a new dimension into the gameplay. If it was not the case, elves in BG:EE would always wield Varscona.
@Tanthalas I've got to agree. A sword is a bladed weapon (edged weapon) used primarily for cutting or thrusting. So, every weapon consisting of the blade and the hilt, counts as a sword. The mechanic of battle with different types of swords is more or less simular. At least, compared with club weapons or axes. Thus, elves can have the bonus with 2-handed swords, katanas, scimitars etc.
No the weight, balance, weight distribution, etc makes vastly different foudation of useage.
It's like a stock car racer vs a F1 racer and a soap box car, vastly different mechanics.
Hm... Guys, it's not that I don't appreciate some discussion about rules, but in this case it's useless: the pen & paper designer assigned a bonus to elves when they used long swords and short swords, not 1-handed swords.
All the fighting about the realism of this and that isnìt the point of the thread.
(Also, there's a joke that I like running in some p&p rpg scenes, and it goes like this: "Oh, so you say that these rules are not realistic because a fireball can go up a slope? Let's test it! I'll incline the table, you bring the fireball.")
I'm aghast at the poor lore in the previous page. The katana (uchigatana) is predominantly wielded with two-hands, much as a bastard (hand-and-a-half) sword was. This is because the wielder can use a push-pull motion to increase the cutting power of the blade. It is wield-able with a single-hand technique, of course, but this does not optimize the weapon's effectiveness.
The tachi is another Japanese sword (nihonto), which essentially pre-dated the uchigatana.
Anyway, the extra leverage of the second hand is not as necessary for a long sword, as the hilt provides the counterbalance for the hand (hilt of nihonto is to keep the opponent's blade from hitting the hand of the wielder, only), which matches the hilts and baskets of scimitars.
and show proper hand position, the distance between the two hands enabling the higher application of torque to the weapon.
Again, the weapon is wieldable in a single-handed fashion. I won't argue that point with anybody. However, it was designed to be a two-handed slashing weapon. Hence, of course, the long tsuka (handle).
@Aasimar069 OMG play oblivion Dai-Katana is 2 handed aKatana is 1 handed lol (legitimately valid troll post)
But seriously a lot of katana-wielders do use it with two hands, and some styles require this and make it difficult to use without using two hands with that style (martial art). I beleive this is one of the reasons behind the Two-handed Katanas mod in BG2Tweaks.
Didn't Musashi-san stress that you must learn to handle the long sword with your right hand? I do remember he said it takes a good while to learn to do so. Moreover, the katana was ALWAYS worn on the left hip, so it could only be drawn with the RIGHT hand.
Based on what I've seen from your links, I don't know why you make the assumption that a katana was always a one-handed weapon? But based on the fact that samurais were the only people in Japan to be allowed to wield two swords at once, the katana and the wakizashi, it makes a lot of sense for it to be a one-handed weapon. Though as I said, we train a fighting style with two-hands. I'll try to ask our sensei about it when I see him again
People, please, stop. Since asking politely doesn't cut it, I'll pass to brute force: I don't give two flying fucks about katanas and their supposed utilisation as two handed weapons. Elves don't give three flying fucks about katanas too: they have a +1 bonus with short swords and long swords. STOP. That's it. Quit fighting about freaking katanas.
In the description elves get +1 ThAC0 when wielding a long sword (or a bow), but in it's current state they also get the benefit for all other kinds of swords including katanas. Is it still considered as a bug or is it part of the new rules in BGEE?
The thing is, I'm planning on doing an elven swashbuckler with the goal of importing him to BG2EE. I don't wanna go with scimitars for example only too see that I get rid of the bonus in a later update.
In the description elves get +1 ThAC0 when wielding a long sword (or a bow), but in it's current state they also get the benefit for all other kinds of swords including katanas. Is it still considered as a bug or is it part of the new rules in BGEE?
The thing is, I'm planning on doing an elven swashbuckler with the goal of importing him to BG2EE. I don't wanna go with scimitars for example only too see that I get rid of the bonus in a later update.
Yes, I'd like some confirmation of this too. I'm currently running an elf fighter/mage dual-wielding longswords, but my next picks will be at least partially dependent on which weapons get the elf swords bonus...
AFAIK, according to PnP rules (not that BG adheres to this strictly anyway) elves should get the bonus at least for Long Swords *and* Short Swords (as well as bows), so at worst should be nerfed to that, though I don't think it's game unbalancing to leave it as is (after all, the shorties get huge con-based save bonuses, and gnomes can be specialist mages and multiclass, so elves need to be good at something...)
I would rather keep it as it is. After all, if you like to roleplay you can always limit yourself to use only long and short swords (and bows) as I do.
Currently in game as far as I know, all blanded weapons (except for daggers) fall into the "Sword category". I've argued to change it to only long and short swords but I'm not sure if it ever will happen.
AFAIK, according to PnP rules (not that BG adheres to this strictly anyway) elves should get the bonus at least for Long Swords *and* Short Swords (as well as bows)..
As far as I know, 2nd ED PnP rules Elves only get the bonus for Long Swords, not for Short Swords as well.
AFAIK, according to PnP rules (not that BG adheres to this strictly anyway) elves should get the bonus at least for Long Swords *and* Short Swords (as well as bows)..
As far as I know, 2nd ED PnP rules Elves only get the bonus for Long Swords, not for Short Swords as well.
AFAIK Baldur's Gate is based on 2nd edition AD&D and from the Player's Handbook:
When employing a bow of any sort other than a crossbow, or when using a short or long sword, elves gain a bonus of +1 to their attack rolls.
though I don't think it's game unbalancing to leave it as is (after all, the shorties get huge con-based save bonuses, and gnomes can be specialist mages and multiclass, so elves need to be good at something...)
I don't know... Elves already get 19 Dex, Infravision and 90% immunity to sleep and charm. Even without their +1 attack on long swords and bows I think they're quite a favoured race.
But I think just to be safe I'll go with long swords.
though I don't think it's game unbalancing to leave it as is (after all, the shorties get huge con-based save bonuses, and gnomes can be specialist mages and multiclass, so elves need to be good at something...)
I don't know... Elves already get 19 Dex, Infravision and 90% immunity to sleep and charm. Even without their +1 attack on long swords and bows I think they're quite a favoured race.
But I think just to be safe I'll go with long swords.
However Infravision is useless in this game, and the immunity to sleep and charm wasn't properly implemented in vanilla BG (i.e. it didn't work without a mod). I don't know if the immunity has been fixed in BGEE.
Edit: it looks like the immunity to charm and sleep may have been fixed in BGEE, but it would be nice to have a confirmation.
though I don't think it's game unbalancing to leave it as is (after all, the shorties get huge con-based save bonuses, and gnomes can be specialist mages and multiclass, so elves need to be good at something...)
I don't know... Elves already get 19 Dex, Infravision and 90% immunity to sleep and charm. Even without their +1 attack on long swords and bows I think they're quite a favoured race.
Comments
And even though, the weapon is designed to be wielded with both hands ...
You' re wrong. A katana is not a two-handed weapon, a tachi is. The tachi is a large, two handed sword similar in style to the katana. +http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?75589-What-is-the-difference-between-a-Katana-and-a-Tachi
+ http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/2442/two-handed-katana/p1
I have only been training with a bokken so far...
How are the results? ^_^
Personally, I like that the elven bonuses affect wakizashis and katanas. It brings a new dimension into the gameplay. If it was not the case, elves in BG:EE would always wield Varscona.
It's like a stock car racer vs a F1 racer and a soap box car, vastly different mechanics.
All the fighting about the realism of this and that isnìt the point of the thread.
(Also, there's a joke that I like running in some p&p rpg scenes, and it goes like this: "Oh, so you say that these rules are not realistic because a fireball can go up a slope? Let's test it! I'll incline the table, you bring the fireball.")
In our games elfs starts with basic sword proficiently (if they wouldn't normaly) and that's all!
Damn elfs....acting all high and mighty with their long ears and long swords....mumble mumble grumble.
In closing: elfs are terrible and if you play one you should feel bad.
Ps: Dwarfs rule!
Could you add this to the tracker, it's still an issue.
Per description Elfs only receive this bonus with longswords and bows. Shortswords should also be added to bring them up to par with PnP.
The tachi is another Japanese sword (nihonto), which essentially pre-dated the uchigatana.
Anyway, the extra leverage of the second hand is not as necessary for a long sword, as the hilt provides the counterbalance for the hand (hilt of nihonto is to keep the opponent's blade from hitting the hand of the wielder, only), which matches the hilts and baskets of scimitars.
Again, the weapon is wieldable in a single-handed fashion. I won't argue that point with anybody. However, it was designed to be a two-handed slashing weapon. Hence, of course, the long tsuka (handle).
But seriously a lot of katana-wielders do use it with two hands, and some styles require this and make it difficult to use without using two hands with that style (martial art). I beleive this is one of the reasons behind the Two-handed Katanas mod in BG2Tweaks.
Moreover, the katana was ALWAYS worn on the left hip, so it could only be drawn with the RIGHT hand.
http://www.123rf.com/photo_10066829_illustration-of-a-samurai-warrior-with-katana-sword-in-fighting-stance-with-tree-and-mountain-in-bac.html
http://abyrvalg.in.ua/poeziya/history/20-01-2011-2002-18.html
http://www.medieval-shop.co.uk/blog/type/katanas
So, katana is a one-handed weapon by default.
Of course, if you like you can use it wit both hands.
The thing is, I'm planning on doing an elven swashbuckler with the goal of importing him to BG2EE. I don't wanna go with scimitars for example only too see that I get rid of the bonus in a later update.
AFAIK, according to PnP rules (not that BG adheres to this strictly anyway) elves should get the bonus at least for Long Swords *and* Short Swords (as well as bows), so at worst should be nerfed to that, though I don't think it's game unbalancing to leave it as is (after all, the shorties get huge con-based save bonuses, and gnomes can be specialist mages and multiclass, so elves need to be good at something...)
Well there you have it!
It's been forever since I've actually read the PH, so I'm not too surprised that I misremembered it.
But I think just to be safe I'll go with long swords.
Edit: it looks like the immunity to charm and sleep may have been fixed in BGEE, but it would be nice to have a confirmation.