@satyrion but this IS the D&D way, sure it's modified from the PnP rules, but there are to achieve a sense of balance for an entirely pre-generated adventure with no DM oversight.
Just a wondering one thing, have you completed the game at all un-modified? Not an accusation, just wondering.
Yeah ive played it several times including BG2, TOB, icewind dale series and NWN series.
They nerfed fighter-mages, make sure to use Shadowkeeper to give yourself the kensai kit so u don't hack. And change your wisdom to 25 so u don't have to deal with nerfed wish spell. Better make it all 25s in case they nerf kensais later.
@satyrion but this IS the D&D way, sure it's modified from the PnP rules, but there are to achieve a sense of balance for an entirely pre-generated adventure with no DM oversight.
Just a wondering one thing, have you completed the game at all un-modified? Not an accusation, just wondering.
Yeah ive played it several times including BG2, TOB, icewind dale series and NWN series.
am not hacking am just following D&D rules and not nerfed Baldurs Gate rules...
Well, you are not following Baldurs Gate rules and wonder why something like that happens? LOL
I dont find that funny, i thought that BG followed D&D rules... it says D&D on the cover book from 1998...
It follows the D&D rules, and just like with tabletop D&D, the makers of BG are in the role of the dungeon master. If you think you can outlevel Drizzt, and cheese your way to victory, in 'real' D&D then you are sadly mistaken as well.
I met drizzt as a lvl 11 Druid Shapeshifter playing solo... summoned 2 werebears with conjure animal lvl 6 druid/cleric spell and than made them attack him. 3 SECONDS later he was dead... yes i said seconds not minutes...
I bet these 2 bears can just solo the final boss and his army lol...
I met drizzt as a lvl 11 Druid Shapeshifter playing solo... summoned 2 werebears with conjure animal lvl 6 druid/cleric spell and than made them attack him. 3 SECONDS later he was dead... yes i said seconds not minutes...
I bet these 2 bears can just solo the final boss and his army lol...
am not hacking am just following D&D rules and not nerfed Baldurs Gate rules...
Well, you are not following Baldurs Gate rules and wonder why something like that happens? LOL
I dont find that funny, i thought that BG followed D&D rules... it says D&D on the cover book from 1998...
It follows the D&D rules, and just like with tabletop D&D, the makers of BG are in the role of the dungeon master. If you think you can outlevel Drizzt, and cheese your way to victory, in 'real' D&D then you are sadly mistaken as well.
At least in real D&D you can play as a shapeshifter that is immune to normal weapons and do some good damage. In Baldurs gate you can play a druid in a werewolf suit with plastic claws from walmart...yay...
I met drizzt as a lvl 11 Druid Shapeshifter playing solo... summoned 2 werebears with conjure animal lvl 6 druid/cleric spell and than made them attack him. 3 SECONDS later he was dead... yes i said seconds not minutes...
I bet these 2 bears can just solo the final boss and his army lol...
i lol'd
so did i LOL
You lol'd because you killed the poor elf in 3 seconds.
FUN FACT: I tried my lvl 11 shapeshifter without mods VS Dorn lvl 5 Blackguard. Dorn won!!!
That proves right there how HORRIBLY nerfed the BG shapeshfters are. When i however applied the werewolf mod again and got real D&D stats back i killed him in a few seconds...
I met drizzt as a lvl 11 Druid Shapeshifter playing solo... summoned 2 werebears with conjure animal lvl 6 druid/cleric spell and than made them attack him. 3 SECONDS later he was dead... yes i said seconds not minutes...
I bet these 2 bears can just solo the final boss and his army lol...
i lol'd
so did i LOL
You lol'd because you killed the poor elf in 3 seconds.
I lol'd because you cheated to do that.
Yeah the conjuring werebears was cheating, way to OP to be a lvl 6 Druid spell... they could even kill a Dragon i bet.
Without werebears i was also able to solo him because he could not hit me lol, but if he had used his real wespons he would have destoyed me in seconds... even with the shapeshifter fix
There's one other point that @satyrion might be missing here... Contrary to other games (MMO's come to mind) and contrary to later editions of the game (DnD 3.5 and 4), same level characters aren't meant to be roughly equally powerful in melee, especially in toe-to-toe melee. They are meant to provide some equal degree of usefulness in a party.
If you force a 10th level druid against a 6th level fighter and expect them to fight in melee, the 6th level fighter winning is not a surprising result.
There's one other point that @satyrion might be missing here... Contrary to other games (MMO's come to mind) and contrary to later editions of the game (DnD 3.5 and 4), same level characters aren't meant to be roughly equally powerful in melee, especially in toe-to-toe melee. They are meant to provide some equal degree of usefulness in a party.
If you force a 10th level druid against a 6th level fighter and expect them to fight in melee, the 6th level fighter winning is not a surprising result.
I agree with that but come on a shapeshifter is a melee fighter hybird. He is lvl 11 and lost vs a lvl 5 fighter...
My druid did not use single spell and Dorn lvl 5 used poison sword in the fight but still i was shocked! My lvl 11 druid in werewolf form has like 85 HP AC-3 and taco of 10. This is all without the shapeshifter fix.
Dorn lvl 5 had 47 HP AC-4 Taco 11. If a lvl 5 fighter can beat a lvl 11 werewolf druid whats the point of playing a werewolf in the first place?
With werewolf fix my druid has Taco of 2, 85 HP, prot from norm weapons and more damage, i think 1d10 vs current 1d4 or 1d6
I tried again now using iron skin and barksin before i shifted to werewolf. Now i killed lvl 5 Dorn easy. Without any spells its a lot harder though about 50/50
Um werewolves are a 4HD monster in 2e, so as a level 11 druid with no spells on you, you become a level 4 monster whose biggest advantage is protection from normal weapons. Fighting anything with a +1 or greater weapon (Dorn comes to mind) they have a good chance of winning that fight.
From the 2e Monster Manual Lycanthrope, Werewolf No. Appearing: 3-18 (3d6) Armor Class: 5 Hit Dice: 4+3 THAC0: 15 No. of Attacks: 1 Damage/Attack: 2-8 Special Attacks: Nil Special Defenses: Hit only by silver or +1 or better magical weapon
Now the 2e supplement book for druids says nothing about becoming a werewolf, other than that in order to be a shapeshifter the druid needs some type of special lineage (it gives the taint of lycanthropy or silver dragon blood in you family line as examples). It says the benefit to the kit is the ability to shapechange at level 1 instead of level 7, and the benefit is to be able to change to an NATURAL animal of 1/2 the HD of the druids level.
Um werewolves are a 4HD monster in 2e, so as a level 11 druid with no spells on you, you become a level 4 monster whose biggest advantage is protection from normal weapons. Fighting anything with a +1 or greater weapon (Dorn comes to mind) they have a good chance of winning that fight.
From the 2e Monster Manual Lycanthrope, Werewolf No. Appearing: 3-18 (3d6) Armor Class: 5 Hit Dice: 4+3 THAC0: 15 No. of Attacks: 1 Damage/Attack: 2-8 Special Attacks: Nil Special Defenses: Hit only by silver or +1 or better magical weapon
Now the 2e supplement book for druids says nothing about becoming a werewolf, other than that in order to be a shapeshifter the druid needs some type of special lineage (it gives the taint of lycanthropy or silver dragon blood in you family line as examples). It says the benefit to the kit is the ability to shapechange at level 1 instead of level 7, and the benefit is to be able to change to an NATURAL animal of 1/2 the HD of the druids level.
Those are the breaks as per ad&d 2e rules.
Yeah with real D&D rules i owned Dorn in a few seconds, but with BG's nerfed version i lost to him
I would suspect that some players don't want "The D&D way", but that they want the rules that they have learned to abuse. or at least the game play elements that were very over powered. And sans a real DM in charge, those rules become eminently more abusable. Which, I suspect, plays right into some players mind sets. This is just a hunch on my part.
In all of my games, no DM ever let you play as a Were-character. No, strike that. One did. Once! And he made it so much worse of a curse than any benefits you could possibly gain that no one asked him to do it again. We ended up questing for a cure. And ultimately had to kill off the character, at the player's request. And Lycanthropy is supposed to be a curse, not a game feature. This isn't Skyrim after all. Not to say that everyone needs to play this way. Just to say that my DM's had house rules and I lived by them.
And I think that, primarily, for a computer program that is supposed to do the job of a DM, the program does a good job. I have had a number of DMs in my day. And each had their own views of how to play the game. Each has had their own 'House rules' to contend with. And if you didn't like them, or tried to challenge the DM, he ALWAYS won. So maybe I am a bit jaded into saying 'Accept the rules sets (those that aren't thoroughly broken) implemented in the game. Accept that those are the "DM" house rules. If you don't like them, play Neverwinter Nights or some other game. But just because you can't run the table, Just because you can't slip through X, Y, and Z loopholes, doesn't mean that the rules are any less legit."
Um werewolves are a 4HD monster in 2e, so as a level 11 druid with no spells on you, you become a level 4 monster whose biggest advantage is protection from normal weapons. Fighting anything with a +1 or greater weapon (Dorn comes to mind) they have a good chance of winning that fight.
From the 2e Monster Manual Lycanthrope, Werewolf No. Appearing: 3-18 (3d6) Armor Class: 5 Hit Dice: 4+3 THAC0: 15 No. of Attacks: 1 Damage/Attack: 2-8 Special Attacks: Nil Special Defenses: Hit only by silver or +1 or better magical weapon
Now the 2e supplement book for druids says nothing about becoming a werewolf, other than that in order to be a shapeshifter the druid needs some type of special lineage (it gives the taint of lycanthropy or silver dragon blood in you family line as examples). It says the benefit to the kit is the ability to shapechange at level 1 instead of level 7, and the benefit is to be able to change to an NATURAL animal of 1/2 the HD of the druids level.
Those are the breaks as per ad&d 2e rules.
Yeah with real D&D rules i owned Dorn in a few seconds, but with BG's nerfed version i lost to him
Umm, did you actually read @Fighting_Ferret's post? He just described the werewolf as per "real D&D rules", and as far as I can tell, they won't be 'owning' anyone unless that person doesn't have a magical weapon.
Um werewolves are a 4HD monster in 2e, so as a level 11 druid with no spells on you, you become a level 4 monster whose biggest advantage is protection from normal weapons. Fighting anything with a +1 or greater weapon (Dorn comes to mind) they have a good chance of winning that fight.
From the 2e Monster Manual Lycanthrope, Werewolf No. Appearing: 3-18 (3d6) Armor Class: 5 Hit Dice: 4+3 THAC0: 15 No. of Attacks: 1 Damage/Attack: 2-8 Special Attacks: Nil Special Defenses: Hit only by silver or +1 or better magical weapon
Now the 2e supplement book for druids says nothing about becoming a werewolf, other than that in order to be a shapeshifter the druid needs some type of special lineage (it gives the taint of lycanthropy or silver dragon blood in you family line as examples). It says the benefit to the kit is the ability to shapechange at level 1 instead of level 7, and the benefit is to be able to change to an NATURAL animal of 1/2 the HD of the druids level.
Those are the breaks as per ad&d 2e rules.
Yeah with real D&D rules i owned Dorn in a few seconds, but with BG's nerfed version i lost to him
Umm, did you actuall read @Fighting_Ferret's post? He just described the werewolf as per "real D&D rules", and as far as I can tell, they won't be 'owning' anyone unless that person doesn't have a magical weapon.
They would be owning a lvl 5 Fighter at least
i pretty much soloed Baldurs Gate with my D&D shifter
Comments
Darksun from 1991 was my first D&D pc experience http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Sun
I love the game though i just dont like how they nerfed the shapeshifter. Makes me want to start all over again with a fighter/mage.
They nerfed fighter-mages, make sure to use Shadowkeeper to give yourself the kensai kit so u don't hack. And change your wisdom to 25 so u don't have to deal with nerfed wish spell. Better make it all 25s in case they nerf kensais later.
haha they nerfed fighter/mages too?? WOW... is there any class that it NOT nerfed?
I lol'd because you cheated to do that.
That proves right there how HORRIBLY nerfed the BG shapeshfters are. When i however applied the werewolf mod again and got real D&D stats back i killed him in a few seconds...
Without werebears i was also able to solo him because he could not hit me lol, but if he had used his real wespons he would have destoyed me in seconds... even with the shapeshifter fix
If you force a 10th level druid against a 6th level fighter and expect them to fight in melee, the 6th level fighter winning is not a surprising result.
My druid did not use single spell and Dorn lvl 5 used poison sword in the fight but still i was shocked! My lvl 11 druid in werewolf form has like 85 HP AC-3 and taco of 10. This is all without the shapeshifter fix.
Dorn lvl 5 had 47 HP AC-4 Taco 11. If a lvl 5 fighter can beat a lvl 11 werewolf druid whats the point of playing a werewolf in the first place?
With werewolf fix my druid has Taco of 2, 85 HP, prot from norm weapons and more damage, i think 1d10 vs current 1d4 or 1d6
As i said he is a hybird...
You might not want druids to be a spell casters, but just a werewolves, but that won't make it so.
From the 2e Monster Manual
Lycanthrope, Werewolf
No. Appearing: 3-18 (3d6)
Armor Class: 5
Hit Dice: 4+3
THAC0: 15
No. of Attacks: 1
Damage/Attack: 2-8
Special Attacks: Nil
Special Defenses: Hit only by silver or +1 or better magical weapon
Now the 2e supplement book for druids says nothing about becoming a werewolf, other than that in order to be a shapeshifter the druid needs some type of special lineage (it gives the taint of lycanthropy or silver dragon blood in you family line as examples). It says the benefit to the kit is the ability to shapechange at level 1 instead of level 7, and the benefit is to be able to change to an NATURAL animal of 1/2 the HD of the druids level.
Those are the breaks as per ad&d 2e rules.
Taco mod?
In all of my games, no DM ever let you play as a Were-character. No, strike that. One did. Once! And he made it so much worse of a curse than any benefits you could possibly gain that no one asked him to do it again. We ended up questing for a cure. And ultimately had to kill off the character, at the player's request. And Lycanthropy is supposed to be a curse, not a game feature. This isn't Skyrim after all. Not to say that everyone needs to play this way. Just to say that my DM's had house rules and I lived by them.
And I think that, primarily, for a computer program that is supposed to do the job of a DM, the program does a good job. I have had a number of DMs in my day. And each had their own views of how to play the game. Each has had their own 'House rules' to contend with. And if you didn't like them, or tried to challenge the DM, he ALWAYS won. So maybe I am a bit jaded into saying 'Accept the rules sets (those that aren't thoroughly broken) implemented in the game. Accept that those are the "DM" house rules. If you don't like them, play Neverwinter Nights or some other game. But just because you can't run the table, Just because you can't slip through X, Y, and Z loopholes, doesn't mean that the rules are any less legit."
All IMHO.
i pretty much soloed Baldurs Gate with my D&D shifter