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about NPC mods

XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
After finally completing my first (albeit quite simple) NPC mod for BG:EE I started getting a HEAPload of ideas, and was wondering about the thoughts of the community. SO, here's the poll, and this will influence my next creation which will probably be terrible (therefore not shared because I'm not actually a modder... YET) but I was wondering on everyone's opinions nevertheless.

What Kinds of NPC mods does everyone like (All being well written of course)

about NPC mods 77 votes

NPCs HAVE to follow the guidelines of the game, no illegalities.
9%
LiamEslerMartySilverbladeAlexDeLargeDeltaslayerDarkDoggDjimmyLapa 7 votes
NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
62%
Montresor_SPDrugarmlneveseSpaceInvaderlunarStargazer5781SuiboonPeccaFlashburnzwadekNadroirGrottenolmDelvarianNeonfiskPhyraxshawneXavainePaheejThe_Guilty_Partydarkkhaine 48 votes
NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)
19%
lansounetXavioriaAHFrevaarstyggaDJKajuruOxford_GuyKaigenDurothScytheKnightJackkel_DragonNifftzupskyLord_TansheronFafnir 15 votes
I don't like NPC mods whatsoever
9%
ParysAramintaielementVnavekulchickenhedNoonMathmick 7 votes

Comments

  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,206
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    Irregular stats or class/race combinations are fine imo, though not a fan of multi-class with kits.

    Xavioria
  • KaigenKaigen Member Posts: 1,567
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)
    I voted the third option, but it's really more of a mix between two and three. NPCs with illegal class/race or alignment combinations don't bother me because A) I consider most of those restrictions to be entirely arbitrary, and B) they generally have a minor impact on game balance. NPCs with kitted multiclasses or super stats, on the other hand, strike me as unbalancing. If I'm installing an NPC mod, it's because it provides a class option that the official NPCs passed over, or because the story/personality interests me. If I wanted a party of super characters, I'd make them all myself from scratch.

    Xavioria
  • ScytheKnightScytheKnight Member Posts: 220
    edited February 2013
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)
    One thing to keep in mind is that there are a few 'illegal' NPCs already in the game and most of them are pretty well balanced out by weaknesses (Dorn, yes, I AM looking at you as an exception here).

    Coran is an AMAZING archer, but can't really get any better than he already is, is pretty weak outside of archery and can't make use of the new compound bows.

    Kagain can take a hit like nobody else... but his STR is so-so and without Gauntlets of Dexterity he's going to get hit a LOT.

    Xavioria
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)
    @ScytheKnight well I do know about those. Among them is Dorn, Coran, and Kagain (who you mentioned already). Then there's Aerie (Elf Cleric/Mage) and Anomen (Dualed with a low wisdom score). I am just curious as to people's reactions to them, because I am QUITE sure that there are the purists who believe that this is absolutely wrong and needs to be fixed. I just want to see how much in number among the community they really are.

  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,206
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    As long as a character is well-written/interesting and (within the setting) believable, I think most people are willing to accept irregularities in mechanics. There's several examples in the base games allready and the purists doesn't seem to be up in arms about them. Maybe they're given slack because they're "official", but I don't think so. BG isn't lauded as being a great RPG because of its system/mechanics/ruleset, but because of the story and characters.

    Xavioria
  • KaigenKaigen Member Posts: 1,567
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)
    I think Dorn is a good example of an acceptable irregularity. Is he slightly more powerful than a Human Blackguard could be? Sure, but only by a small margin, and there's no good reason why only Humans should have the ability to be Blackguards. Likewise, Valerie (NPC Mod) has very minor innate elemental resistances, but nothing that puts her head and shoulders above other NPCs. The only official NPC who seems to have people up in arms is Mr. Spoiler from the latest patch; though I'm not sure if that's because they feel he goes too far beyond what Sorcerers are supposed to get, or because he's new and so doesn't get the same slack that the likes of Edwin and Coran are afforded.

    On the other hand, if you make a Half-Orc Ranger/Priest of Lathander with 19 Str/Con, I'm unlikely to download your NPC mod or take it very seriously.

    DJKajuru
  • Jackkel_DragonJackkel_Dragon Member Posts: 103
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)
    I'm willing to ignore race/class restrictions entirely if the NPC isn't horribly underpowered or hilariously overpowered. I'm very certain that whatever "balance" was attained by making gnomes only good as thieves and illusionists isn't important enough to limit me to only ever having such characters (this is my personal gripe/example. I love gnomes and hate how they're treated in 90% of the D+D products I know of.)

    So as long as the NPC is a fair choice that doesn't overshadow other characters I might want or underperform and be better of dead I'd be willing to see whatever class/kit that makes sense for the character.

    If I see a halfling paladin of a drow god, though, you might want to give me a reason to not laugh. :)

    KaigenSCARY_WIZARD
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)
    @Kaigen and @Jackkel_Dragon I definitely see what you're saying and totally agree. Of course the NPC in question would make sense, but I really am just curious as where to take the first real NPC I make. I see that people think good writing is important, but that balance is equally or moreso important. I really can't wait to start this process, and maybe I'll make something that's interesting, maybe I won't :)

  • OYMEOYME Member Posts: 36
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    Pretty much agree with everything everyone has said so far. As far as illegal stats/class combos go, I'm ok provided with that provided that it makes sense for the NPC. If it's overpowered (or you think it might be) then let it start off weak and upgrade over time. Throne of Bhaal is a good time to bring Uber stats into the game (recruiting mr. deathbringer assault is a perfect example). You could also have a tradeoff and have it not being able to equip something for whatever reason like edwin and his amulet. Just make sure the NPC has an interesting story behind it. I know interesting will vary in an individual's taste so just use your better judgement and common sense in what "interesting" is. And of course, in general, evil NPC's tend to be more powerful then good or neutral NPC's (so far that's the trend anyways) because roleplaying an evil tends to result in less exp and worse quest rewards so evil people are more stronger to balance things somewhat. I myself have some ideas but unless I'm directly asked, I won't smother your topic with them. :)

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)
    I'm not a fan of kitted multiclasses for mods at all but don't mind an illegal stats/class combo. I would warn against accidently stepping into Mary Sue territory by creating some NPC that is soooo special he/she is just as unique and amazing as being a Bhaalspawn.

  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,431
    edited February 2013
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    As long as the character's backstory and mechanics are faithful to the lore of the setting, I'm fine. I'd rather see an elven Cleric/Fighter of Corellon Larethian or a half-orcish Assassin/Cleric (legal due to supplemental rules, illegal in most other AD&D rules) with a good story, than something like a human Fighter with a super-special destiny and...I don't know, Frostmourne? If there's something really "out there", like a minotaur Paladin or something, dude or dudette better have a good reason for being that way if I'm to play it!

    I hate, hate, hate NPCs that hijack the story too much. ...those NPCs, I want to trick into saying Luthic's name. Out loud. Fifty times. And then have them kiss a leper. They live so long as I tolerate it.

    One thing I found really cool about the Icewind Dale NPC Project, was how you could choose an NPC's classes from a list of likely candidates -- like Teri, a half-elven Fighter/Thief who could just as likely be a Thief, Mage/Thief or Fighter/Mage/Thief. I also like it when NPCs come with cool, optional perks! Though some of the banter accelerators might have given my Nalia Romance mod a minor tummyache...

    If I don't like somebody's character or mod, I just don't download the mod, and leave it at that. If I don't like somebody's character or mod after I install it, I skirt the content. Same with stuff that affects official NPCs.

    I absolutely adore NPCs like Finch and Indira, because they strike me as being believable, and I just like them. Same with Keto, and Aurora. I love Aurora. I...I want to hug whoever thought that mod up, it's a lot of fun. :D

  • OzzyBotkinsOzzyBotkins Member Posts: 396
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    There are a lot of Great NPC mods out there
    I like the ones that add to the story line and RP experience
    like the Nalia Romance mod

    SCARY_WIZARDEudaemonium
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    2 and 3. I see many race restrictions as weird, as there are some combinations that would make perfect sense to me (Dwarf Skald based on the general Norse theme with the race; half orc becoming a druid as a result of rejection from both humans and orcs...). I can also see how in some cases, a kit would fit in a multiclass, if it makes sense with the character's personality (i.e. Montaron would be believable as Fighter-Assassin due to his lines).
    What I don't like is bad writing and that does include ridicolously overpowered personal items. Solaufein's sword comes to mind. I do like NPCs with personal items if they are equal in power to items a PC can get, and if the items aren't so insanely awesome that you would be stupid to ever switch them out. This limits NPCs in my opinion because it takes away their versatility and the fun to try out different strategies with them. For example, an NPC coming with a personal mace and 5 pips in maces, and it's the best mace in the game, you wouldn't do yourself any favors by giving the NPC a different weapon. They would always do worse.

  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,431
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense

    What I don't like is bad writing and that does include ridicolously overpowered personal items. Solaufein's sword comes to mind. I do like NPCs with personal items if they are equal in power to items a PC can get, and if the items aren't so insanely awesome that you would be stupid to ever switch them out. This limits NPCs in my opinion because it takes away their versatility and the fun to try out different strategies with them. For example, an NPC coming with a personal mace and 5 pips in maces, and it's the best mace in the game, you wouldn't do yourself any favors by giving the NPC a different weapon. They would always do worse.

    Thank you!
    Keto's non-removables were sort of neat, and so are the personal items that belong to Finch and Indira, but here I go again, with those three...

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    I've heard many good things about Keto and will try her out in a future BG2. I briefly had Solaufein installed back when it was the first NPC mod, and it sucked so bad, I never installed another.
    I really like NPCs having non-removable items, to a point where I make them with Shadowkeeper for NPCs that have none (Xzar's skull friend), even if they serve no other purpose than giving the NPC more personality. If it came down to a choice between "personal item that boosts 5 stats (sword with cool name)" or "personal item that boosts 1 skill (funniest-looking helm ever)", I'd take the unique/funny item any day.

  • redlineredline Member Posts: 290
    edited February 2013
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    I went with 2, though I'm much more likely to overlook nonsensical or impossible race/class/stat combos if the character itself fits into the game in other ways.
    Aosaw said:


    All that being said, I tend to be very skeptical of NPC mods in general, in the same way that I tend to be skeptical of fan fiction. Some of it's very good, and all of it has required a lot of work, but none of it is canon, which means that most of the time it sticks out like a sore thumb. More important to me than any part of the character's mechanics is how it fits into the story and the world of the game.

    A million times this. What matters most to me is if the character fits, though I'd take it a step further and say it's not just about the story and world but also about the overall style of the BG games themselves. That comes down to a lot more than game mechanics -- it's the style of the writing (i.e. dialogue only, not slipping into Planescape-esque descriptions within the dialogue mechanic), the portrait, the soundset, the story...

    And, yes, nonsensical class/race combos could potentially disrupt that as well. Ultimately, though, I'm way more likely to forgive a dwarven druid/mage in an NPC mod than I am a human fighter with 1000 lines of dialogue and a portrait that stands out from across the room.

    KidCarnival
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,431
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense

    I've heard many good things about Keto and will try her out in a future BG2. I briefly had Solaufein installed back when it was the first NPC mod, and it sucked so bad, I never installed another.
    I really like NPCs having non-removable items, to a point where I make them with Shadowkeeper for NPCs that have none (Xzar's skull friend), even if they serve no other purpose than giving the NPC more personality. If it came down to a choice between "personal item that boosts 5 stats (sword with cool name)" or "personal item that boosts 1 skill (funniest-looking helm ever)", I'd take the unique/funny item any day.

    From what I recall, Keto had a bottle of wine (could be drunk, but did not intoxicate) and a pair of pan pipes. I like her personality more than anything, her banters with the NPCs are fun, I like Stoplight Red's voice acting, and her personal quest isn't really hijackywowyouhavetogodothiscoolthingorI'llleavethepartyFOREVERRR. I also like that you can't romance her. Same with Valen. I've got some NPCs planned for the near future (currently looking into creating NPCs), and the most they've got going is "friendship paths". I'll get off my unicorn now.

    I'm currently playing with Valen right now. She's pretty strong, but I find that her being a vampire is counterbalanced by her being a vampire. She can punch things and drain levels from them, but only to a certain extent (so far?); if you need her to hit something immune to +2 weapons, give her something with a higher enchantment or teach her to dual-wield if for some reason you don't want to swap out. She can still love-tap mooks!

    KidCarnival
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    Friendship paths! Oh my! It would probably be a bit ironic if I said "I love you" now, but that is exactly what I look for in NPC mods. It seems strange that people you meet will either fall for you or be mostly indifferent, but not simply become friends.
    While you're not on the unicorn, let me ride it a bit: my dream mod has "mentor paths", where charname can become the student of an NPC with a similar class, leading to a reward for both (i.e. completing a path for a mage who becomes Xzar's student gives both charname and Xzar +1 int, like a tome). It would have dialogues stretched out by chapters, be limited to one mentor per charname and only be offered by single class NPCs. It always made sense to me that a 20 years old sheltered charname who just lost Gorion would look for guidance.

    SCARY_WIZARDredline
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    I don't really use NPC mods, so I can't fully comment. I would have no problem with minor illegalities as long as the character isn't crazy-powerful if I did.

    I'm aware of an NPC sorcerer mod (Kelsey?) that is generally touted as being well balanced by having a kickass class paired with average stats.

    Variety/options are often better than pure power. Shar-Teel makes a great thief dual for example, but an average fighter. A human fighter with 15 str and 17 int & dex would open up a lot of options, for example.

    KidCarnival
  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    NPCs HAVE to follow the guidelines of the game, no illegalities.
    I don't quite understand what you mean by "illegalities", but I think that NPCs should follow the guidelines of the game in terms of gameplay. No funny dialogs from the future, for instance.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)
    I think what he means is irregularities like say class/race combinations that would otherwise not be possible like e.g. Elf Paladin or Half-orc Ranger or something like that; which imo can be quite alright, provided you back it up properly and logically.

    There are always limits, of course. The class/race issue for example has very little impact, but something like exceptionally high stats on an NPC can quickly turn OP and sour the experience. On the other hand, it can also greatly improve it. Take Minsc for example: his Berserk ability is out of class, but it's not OP and it fits well with his overall character and story. Such minor details spice up an already far too bland world and are imo a welcome addition, provided they are done right.

  • ErinneErinne Member Posts: 151
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    I don't see a problem with it. A number of canon NPCs already break the rules somehow (whether by illegal stats or special items and abilities). Bending the rules a little can give a character unique flavor.

    SCARY_WIZARD
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)



    I'm currently playing with Valen right now. She's pretty strong, but I find that her being a vampire is counterbalanced by her being a vampire. She can punch things and drain levels from them, but only to a certain extent (so far?); if you need her to hit something immune to +2 weapons, give her something with a higher enchantment or teach her to dual-wield if for some reason you don't want to swap out. She can still love-tap mooks!


    MODEST SPOILERS

    I love the Valen mod - it is my favorite NPC mod for (a) fitting the story pretty well, (b) not overwhelming the PC, and (c) helping me to play an evil (or at least non-good) play through. I do find the claws become OP'd, though, so I typically have her wield daggers so she doesn't shred opponents by massive level drain. (Her claws ramp up in enchantment and level drain over time). A naturally regenerating F/T is a great character even without the level drain and the perma death on higher difficulties is a nice RP feature.

    SCARY_WIZARD
  • RhymeRhyme Member Posts: 190
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    "(All being well written of course)"

    That quote is the beginning and end of the answer to this poll, and I don't think I'm alone in that belief. As others have said, most of us don't balk at official game NPCs that break the rules.

    The thing is, the options you list tend to be correlated with bad writing.

    If there's something illegal, but there has clearly been some thought given to balancing that character's power compared to the PC and other NPCs, that usually means we're entering somebody's fan fiction world, but the author is at least conscious of not wanting to let that NPC dominate the story. That's not bad, and if the official NPCs are any indication, these can wind up being people's favorite NPCs in the game. But the more min/max that balancing act gets, the worse the writing will be ("To compensate for this character's 25 Dexterity, we will have her die instantly if you tell her you don't like her new haircut. BALANCE!")

    If there's something illegal that is obviously overpowered, it's virtually guaranteed that the writing will be terrible, either because the character is a Mary Sue, or because the author was more interested in creating the illegal class/stats than in creating the character/story. If you see a Kensai/Assasin multi-class half-orc, I personally guarantee it's a terrible NPC mod.

    I also make a distinction between an illegal class/combo for a race (Elf cleric/mage, Dwarf Bard, ), and a unique race (Avariel, Tiefling, Half-Demon, Centaur, Mer-man). Illegal classes or class combos are usually easier to swallow, but unique races are much harder to pull off. The official NPCs have an easier time pulling it off for two reasons:

    1. There's only a few of them. The more incredibly rare and out of place NPCs you get, the more their supposed rarity begins to turn your party into a zoo. When you walk into a bar with a half-orc, a tiefling, an avariel, and two drows, that should be the setup of a joke. But in this scenario, it just means you've decided to roll with Dorn, Haer'Dalis, Aerie, Viconia, and Baeloth. The punchline is that nobody in the bar acts like there's anything weird about that.

    So why do the official NPCs get a pass, and mod NPCs don't? Because the official NPCs were there first. So it's the mod NPCs that get the response of, "Enough already! HOW ABOUT YOU MAKE A DWARF, A GNOME, OR A HALFLING INSTEAD?"

    2. The developers got to create the world that these characters fit into. Mod NPCs have to be shoehorned in. Often this means they get shoved into somebody else's storyline, where they proceed to either trample all over that storyline (which is off-putting), or be an afterthought (which isn't fun).

    FafnirKidCarnivalSCARY_WIZARD
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)
    I understand where everyone is coming from, and I just want to say that I absolutely despise Baeloth being there. One drow was enough to flavor the game, why put in another one? Unique races and Unique classes are things I find very different. For instance: There was Ariena who came with a unique class, but it seemed to work, and I believe alot of people liked tht mod (not sure if that's true though) Then we come with CERTAIN mods which I will not mention that have some ridiculously random race that is not a choice in between the already available races and the only people who would understand the references, are the people who have alot of backstory to the world. The people who haven't read up on all of it, or haven't played tabletop and have ONLY played BG don't know what a Fey'ri (or whatever) is! I personally skip over those mods.

    Particulars where people are from different dimensions, and from heaven, or hell, or OMFG! What is so wrong about having an NPC that is in that world that was BORN there and is just trying to make a name or life for themselves?

    Suffice to say that I don't even powergame with my CHARNAME let alone a custom made NPC. I was thinking of making a halfling Stalker (Thief turned woodsman (insert story plot here)), or maybe a Dwarf Druid (brother said something about one of Drizzt's companions). I personally want to include a Dwarf, Halfling, or Gnome that is sufficiently interesting and useful AND unique to the point where people will find them interesting and fun, yet still replaceable if they only want to use them in their party for a limited period of time.

    SCARY_WIZARDKidCarnival
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,154
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    As long as the NPC is not an Hyperchicken I'm ok with it... :)

    EudaemoniumSCARY_WIZARD
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,206
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense
    Xavioria said:

    I was thinking of making a halfling Stalker (Thief turned woodsman (insert story plot here)), or maybe a Dwarf Druid (brother said something about one of Drizzt's companions). I personally want to include a Dwarf, Halfling, or Gnome that is sufficiently interesting and useful AND unique to the point where people will find them interesting and fun, yet still replaceable if they only want to use them in their party for a limited period of time.

    Sounds good. Go for it!

    Xavioria
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,431
    edited February 2013
    NPCs can be illegal class/race or alignment or kitted multiclass as long as it makes good sense

    Friendship paths! Oh my! It would probably be a bit ironic if I said "I love you" now, but that is exactly what I look for in NPC mods. It seems strange that people you meet will either fall for you or be mostly indifferent, but not simply become friends.
    While you're not on the unicorn, let me ride it a bit: my dream mod has "mentor paths", where charname can become the student of an NPC with a similar class, leading to a reward for both (i.e. completing a path for a mage who becomes Xzar's student gives both charname and Xzar +1 int, like a tome). It would have dialogues stretched out by chapters, be limited to one mentor per charname and only be offered by single class NPCs. It always made sense to me that a 20 years old sheltered charname who just lost Gorion would look for guidance.

    Ooh, that gives me ideas, actually. One NPC I have in mind is loyal to Deneir...I'm sort of collaborating with a friend, whose experience with Skyrim mods is like my experience with Infinity Engine mods. Good, and bad.
    AHF said:

    MODEST SPOILERS

    I love the Valen mod - it is my favorite NPC mod for (a) fitting the story pretty well, (b) not overwhelming the PC, and (c) helping me to play an evil (or at least non-good) play through. I do find the claws become OP'd, though, so I typically have her wield daggers so she doesn't shred opponents by massive level drain. (Her claws ramp up in enchantment and level drain over time). A naturally regenerating F/T is a great character even without the level drain and the perma death on higher difficulties is a nice RP feature.

    Tha-ha-hank you! :D Glad to know that I can still Frostmourne-punch things later on.
    Xavioria said:

    Suffice to say that I don't even powergame with my CHARNAME let alone a custom made NPC. I was thinking of making a halfling Stalker (Thief turned woodsman (insert story plot here)), or maybe a Dwarf Druid (brother said something about one of Drizzt's companions). I personally want to include a Dwarf, Halfling, or Gnome that is sufficiently interesting and useful AND unique to the point where people will find them interesting and fun, yet still replaceable if they only want to use them in their party for a limited period of time.

    Sounds well enough thought out, I say go for it!

    Xavioria
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    NPCs can be illegal, but ONLY if there is some sort of balancing factor (stats or whatever)

    Tha-ha-hank you! :D Glad to know that I can still Frostmourne-punch things later on.

    If you want to get crazy, you can also dual wield the claws for total destruction.

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