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Helm of Alignment Reversal

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
in New Players (NO SPOILERS!)
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  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    I'm 99% sure this is the case.
  • secretmantrasecretmantra Member Posts: 259
    You could always be Mr. Cheesebucket and EEKeeper / ShadowKeeper it in.

    Just curious: You planning to switch an NPC to a more party-friendly alignment?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • StickanStickan Member Posts: 136
    I had forgotten all about this... Perfect solution for my next upcoming all rogues run! Perhaps this will make Eldoth less whiny :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • StickanStickan Member Posts: 136
    Bhaaldog said:

    My memory is slightly fuzzy on this but defeating Mr. Demon in the right place at the right time requires some decent tactics.

    [Spoiler]A wand of paralyzation is a good start at least. But yes it's still hard to make it on time. I wonder if you can set up traps which will stay beyond the cut scene. Would be EXTREMELY cheesy though...[/spoiler]
  • secretmantrasecretmantra Member Posts: 259
    @Bhaaldog

    I wouldn't mind a Neutral Good Viconia--as long as she kept her snark about us "surface dwellers."
  • Copastetic1985Copastetic1985 Member Posts: 277
    A tame Viconia is a lame Viconia.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • FafnirFafnir Member Posts: 232
    Stickan said:

    I had forgotten all about this... Perfect solution for my next upcoming all rogues run! Perhaps this will make Eldoth less whiny :)

    Bards unfortunately cannot wear helmets.
  • StickanStickan Member Posts: 136
    ...how could I miss that. And I almost only play bards. Shameful! I got so exited by a non-nagging Eldoth.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I fear even if you could give Eldoth the helm, it wouldn't change his voiceset. He'd only stop using the complaint line about high rep, but he'd still be a jerk. ;)
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Have you accidentally posted this in the wrong place, @Bhaaldog? You're not a new player, and your question contains an unhidden spoiler. May I recommend moving it to General?
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    I just thought of something... Does she get holy smite instead of unholy blight if you put that hat on her?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • FafnirFafnir Member Posts: 232
    KidCarnival said:

    I fear even if you could give Eldoth the helm, it wouldn't change his voiceset. He'd only stop using the complaint line about high rep, but he'd still be a jerk. ;)

    A non-douchebag Eldoth wouldn't be Eldoth at all!
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    Tresset said:

    I just thought of something... Does she get holy smite instead of unholy blight if you put that hat on her?

    I just tested it. The spell list uses only the base alignment and ignores the helmet.
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    Wow, I had no idea this existed! Will definitely grab it for my next playthrough!
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    @PawnSlayer It may as well not exist. Yes there is data for it and yes I guess there is a way to get it without cheating but that way is technically an exploit. I don't think it was ever meant to be obtained by the player.
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,181
    Tresset said:

    @PawnSlayer It may as well not exist. Yes there is data for it and yes I guess there is a way to get it without cheating but that way is technically an exploit. I don't think it was ever meant to be obtained by the player.

    In that case, I don't think they would bother to include it at all. I think it's simply an easter egg, and it's very point is to be obtained as an easter egg.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Pecca said:

    Tresset said:

    @PawnSlayer It may as well not exist. Yes there is data for it and yes I guess there is a way to get it without cheating but that way is technically an exploit. I don't think it was ever meant to be obtained by the player.

    In that case, I don't think they would bother to include it at all. I think it's simply an easter egg, and it's very point is to be obtained as an easter egg.
    I agree with @Pecca, it's an Easter Egg.

    I don't think an exploit is essential, @Tresset. The Demonknight is susceptible to the Wand of Paralyzation, if you get a lucky first strike and he fails his save, and while stunned he can be killed in melee, if you have characters who can strike fast and hard before he recovers from the stun. That's not an exploit, it's simply using the weapons you're given in their intended way, although it'll work only occasionally because he'll usually make his save.

    However, I don't find his weird Helm useful, because by the time I've got characters who have a reasonable chance of taking him down without cheating, they'll already be my final line-up and have worked together for a while, and therefore are already capable of working together without needing to reverse anyone's alignment. To grab his Helm early enough that it might be useful for adding someone to the party who otherwise wouldn't be compatible, then yes, I reckon you'll need either extraordinary luck or an exploit.
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    Gallowglass said:

    Pecca said:

    Tresset said:

    @PawnSlayer It may as well not exist. Yes there is data for it and yes I guess there is a way to get it without cheating but that way is technically an exploit. I don't think it was ever meant to be obtained by the player.

    In that case, I don't think they would bother to include it at all. I think it's simply an easter egg, and it's very point is to be obtained as an easter egg.
    I agree with @Pecca, it's an Easter Egg.

    I don't think an exploit is essential, @Tresset. The Demonknight is susceptible to the Wand of Paralyzation, if you get a lucky first strike and he fails his save, and while stunned he can be killed in melee, if you have characters who can strike fast and hard before he recovers from the stun. That's not an exploit, it's simply using the weapons you're given in their intended way, although it'll work only occasionally because he'll usually make his save.

    However, I don't find his weird Helm useful, because by the time I've got characters who have a reasonable chance of taking him down without cheating, they'll already be my final line-up and have worked together for a while, and therefore are already capable of working together without needing to reverse anyone's alignment. To grab his Helm early enough that it might be useful for adding someone to the party who otherwise wouldn't be compatible, then yes, I reckon you'll need either extraordinary luck or an exploit.
    Admittedly, the Wand of Paralysation is obtainable very early, so it might be theoretically possible. Might need to hit him with it twice though. Would backstabbing help up the damage if trying that?

  • Copastetic1985Copastetic1985 Member Posts: 277
    Gallowglass said:

    Pecca said:

    Tresset said:

    @PawnSlayer It may as well not exist. Yes there is data for it and yes I guess there is a way to get it without cheating but that way is technically an exploit. I don't think it was ever meant to be obtained by the player.

    In that case, I don't think they would bother to include it at all. I think it's simply an easter egg, and it's very point is to be obtained as an easter egg.
    I agree with @Pecca, it's an Easter Egg.

    I don't think an exploit is essential, @Tresset. The Demonknight is susceptible to the Wand of Paralyzation, if you get a lucky first strike and he fails his save, and while stunned he can be killed in melee, if you have characters who can strike fast and hard before he recovers from the stun. That's not an exploit, it's simply using the weapons you're given in their intended way, although it'll work only occasionally because he'll usually make his save.

    However, I don't find his weird Helm useful, because by the time I've got characters who have a reasonable chance of taking him down without cheating, they'll already be my final line-up and have worked together for a while, and therefore are already capable of working together without needing to reverse anyone's alignment. To grab his Helm early enough that it might be useful for adding someone to the party who otherwise wouldn't be compatible, then yes, I reckon you'll need either extraordinary luck or an exploit.
    Once he maps in, have your Cleric or Druid ( who's near his spawn point ) cast Doom. Then use Wand. Better chance at getting him stunned. Might even interupt the first FB.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    @Copastetic1985 you are aware that doom takes a heck of a lot longer to cast now right?
  • Copastetic1985Copastetic1985 Member Posts: 277
    edited March 2013
    Tresset said:

    @Copastetic1985 you are aware that doom takes a heck of a lot longer to cast now right?

    Nope. They increased it? That's pretty darn lame. I haven't had the need to kill him.

    What's the new casting time? Even with the longer CT, do the same thing. Get close, pause when he spawns, cast Doom, halfway through casting Doom pause, then get your other spellcaster to use the Wand.

    You have plenty of time. If not, as soon as you see "Save vs. Wands" appear, pause again and give the Wand to a different character that hasn't done anything that round to repeat the process. You 'should' be able to get two Wand uses in before he maps out.
  • StickanStickan Member Posts: 136
    How about traps?
  • Copastetic1985Copastetic1985 Member Posts: 277
    Stickan said:

    How about traps?

    A Bounty Hunter should have some Slow traps available at low levels, and hold later on if I remember right. Those should work too, but I don't think they'll interrupt his FBs.

    Summon a Nymph for Hold Monster. I think that will hold him. Then again, it might be Hold Person she used one time on him. She has both.

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    Greater Malison + Doom + Wand of Paralyzation is fairly effective. Even if Doom does take a round to cast now, I believe the Demonknight sticks around long enough to cast it and still have enough time to use the wand.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    @Copastetic1985 It takes an entire round to cast doom now (boo).
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