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Baldur's Gate II - Serious Roleplaying Question (Spoilers)

BaldursCatBaldursCat Member Posts: 432
Okay, I'll preface this by saying I'm a rubbish gamer, my tactics are pretty much on-the-fly and I'm the screw it up. reload queen (yeah yeah, if anyone wants to teach me how to do this properly feel free) but the joy I get from playing this game is actually RPing it to the best of my abilities so I'm wondering how everyone justifies dropping Minsc and Jaheira from their parties before rescuing Imoen.

The way I see it, aside from Charname these two characters are Immy's continuity and if you're seriously RPing this game, given what she goes through she's going to want to see some familiar faces when you finally liberate her from Spellhold so how do you justify dumping them before you get there (especially when both of them both have very good reasons for revenge - Khalid & Dynaheir).
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  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    For me it's more about consistency. BG2 sets you up with Jaheira from the start, but since I never take her and Khalid along after the Nashkel mines in BG1, you might say that my personal roleplaying overrides the canon setting. So I keep Jaheira around for awhile and then go about collecting the characters that I did travel with in BG1 - the ones who are still alive anyway.

    Hence, in such a game neither I nor Imoen have created a particularly strong bond to Jaheira. Minsc on the other hand I almost always keep with me.
  • MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324
    I recently RP'd an "Alternate Good" runthrough of BG1 where I took all the non-canon Good NPCs (Kivan, Ajantis, Alora, Coran... Charname was a Cleric, though, so I confess to taking Xan instead of Yeslick). Conveniently enough, CHARNAME was the only one to survive the final battle against Sarevok, so it's okay that none of them showed up in BG2. The problem was that Imoen had gotten chunked in the Cloakwood Forest (uh, "accidentally." I'd been looking for an RP-friendly reason to replace her with Coran), so having her show up was a bit... unsettling? I immediately kicked her out of the party and mentally ret-conned her out of the game.


    Anyway, because I'd never met them, Minsc and Jaheira were just two randoms sitting in a cell. They gave me versions of our history together that didn't match up with what I had actually done, so I assumed they were dopplegangers or some other sort of trap to prevent my escape and just left them there. Then I made my escape (alone).


    Interestingly enough, when I did an evil playthrough of BG1, Edwin and Viconia were the only ones to survive the last battle. Even better, Shar-Teel killed Angelo in a one-on-one battle (I wasn't even thinking about it at the time, I just needed someone to deal with him and she was closest). Too bad she was cut down by Sarevok afterwards. Oh well.
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    edited August 2013
    I always dismiss them simply because I don't like them. From an RP perspective, my charname simply doesn't like them, lol. Since I don't take them in BG1, Imoen would not be familiar with them and wouldn't really care. I actually just tell them to take a hike in Irenicus' dungeon without ever letting them join my party. I'd rather go through the first dungeon with just Imoen than to take them along.

    Actually, I usually kill Minsc in BG1, so he shouldn't even show up for me in BG2.
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    edited August 2013
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  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861
    There is always going to be a problem RPing the start of BG2 because assumptions are made in the set-up that mean it may bear no relation to the game you were playing in BG1.

    For me the big problem is that I always find myself getting caught up in a bunch of side-quests before I go and rescue Imoen because I want to get up a few levels and get some decent equipment. But if I was RPing properly my character would set off as soon as she got the money together.

    That's what I'm trying on my current playthrough but I've got a bad feeling it means we are going to be hopelessly underpowered and our quest will be vain.

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  • BaldursCatBaldursCat Member Posts: 432
    edited August 2013


    For me the big problem is that I always find myself getting caught up in a bunch of side-quests before I go and rescue Imoen because I want to get up a few levels and get some decent equipment. But if I was RPing properly my character would set off as soon as she got the money together.

    That's what I'm trying on my current playthrough but I've got a bad feeling it means we are going to be hopelessly underpowered and our quest will be vain.

    Yes, this. Especially when I see that creepy Spellhold cutscene. Me the player wants to get there right away and kick wizard ass but then I remember Charname can't see that scene so whilst she's worried sick she doesn't know exactly what's going on. I must have something like ten different sidequests active at the moment, plus I've paid for the Shadow Thieves help, I did think about going to them right away but as I'm so bad at the actual gameplay it's probably better I get some xp first to give the poor buggers a fighting chance!

    I still have Jaheira with me but in the end I decided to leave Minsc in Umar at Valygar's cabin. I'm sure he and Boo will be happy there. The funny thing is I went from six in the party to four in a day as I released Keldorn and then Nalia was abducted when we reached Umar; I don't usually have her in the party beyond doing her first quest because her whining annoys me, though she does get less whiny the longer you keep her.

    I did like all your justifications for ditching them though. I especially like the amnesia route.



  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 418
    My last playthrough was a mostly premade party with Imoen as the only NPC... when I brought them over to bg2 I simply never went near Jaheira and Minsc's cells and completely ignored them.

    I sent Yoshimo on his way and after Imoen was taken I recruited Nalia to do her story and then proceeded to cycle through other npc stories till I felt I was ready to proceed with the main story, got Yoshi and then went to Spellhold. Imoen stayed for the rest of the story after that.
  • SparrowhawkSparrowhawk Member Posts: 5
    If I'm playing a moody/broody type of character, I can justify breaking with Minsc and co. after we escape the prologue together on the basis of being emotionally troubled and wanting to seek answers alone. Then, during the course of the side quests one inevitably does to gather funds, you can pick up new companions who grow on you, and you can even come back to old friends later on if you feel the need.

    Remember also that Charname and co. don't know that Irenicus is still at large and still a big bad after he gets taken into custody. You could conceive of a goodly Charname convincing Jaheira and Minsc to lay their grudges to rest, believing that Irenicus has already been brought to justice. Again, when you later discover the plot thickening, if you feel morally obligated to get back in touch with old friends, do so!

    I know most people despise the BG novelizations, but I was always particularly fond of the scenario in which Minsc becomes a hard-working, blissfully unaware employee at the Copper Coronet >.<

    You could also use your cosmic awareness as the player to create a situation in which your old friends suffer an accident and don't make it out to Athkatla alive, despite their best efforts....but this is grim and cruel from a roleplaying perspective, so metagaming like that is always my last resort.

    Again, this is all assuming that your Charname -does- have some history with these characters, which is not a requirement. And if you're worried about Imoen, I think it's completely fair to assume that the one comfort she really wants/needs is her surrogate big bro/sis, Charname.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    It's pretty easy for Evil PCs: your objective isn't rescuing Imoen but killing Irenicus. You're going to Spellhold anyway, but the last thing you need is people like Jaheira and Minsc questioning whatever difficult decisions you have to make. Korgan, Viconia and Edwin are much better-suited to the task.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 880
    I usually ignore Jaheira completely in both BG1 and BG2. I just pretend she doesn't exist and have no dialogues with her whatsoever, let alone have her join my party.
  • DurenasDurenas Member Posts: 508
    Wow, so you left her in the cage? You heartless bastard!
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,438

    Okay, I'll preface this by saying I'm a rubbish gamer, my tactics are pretty much on-the-fly and I'm the screw it up. reload queen (yeah yeah, if anyone wants to teach me how to do this properly feel free) but the joy I get from playing this game is actually RPing it to the best of my abilities so I'm wondering how everyone justifies dropping Minsc and Jaheira from their parties before rescuing Imoen.

    The way I see it, aside from Charname these two characters are Immy's continuity and if you're seriously RPing this game, given what she goes through she's going to want to see some familiar faces when you finally liberate her from Spellhold so how do you justify dumping them before you get there (especially when both of them both have very good reasons for revenge - Khalid & Dynaheir).

    List by Alignment!

    Good - I CARE TOO MUCH ABOUT YOU GUUUUUYYYYSSS but not enough about these other people I'll recruit.
    Neutral - Here, you're out. On your way!
    Evil - Screw you, you never did anything for me, look at where we are! You're on your own.
  • Durlag_ThunderaxeDurlag_Thunderaxe Member Posts: 71
    Jaheira is really annoying. Even though I roleplay a Good Dwarf, I usually just allow her to die 'tragically' fairly on.

    But Minsc... why would ya ever leave him and Boo behind?! He's the only groundling worth his bread and Boo is a minature giant space hamster!
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 880
    Amberion said:

    Wow, so you left her in the cage? You heartless bastard!

    But she doesn't exist (in my game). It's just an illusion that there is some irritating half-elf in a cage. I refuse to fall for that trap!


    But Minsc... why would ya ever leave him and Boo behind?! He's the only groundling worth his bread and Boo is a minature giant space hamster!

    I always release Minsc, and often keep him in the party throughout the game. (He's in my current BG2 run.)
  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    I think both Minsc and Jaheira are really annoying, to be honest. I usually march them into a house, up a flight of stairs, then boot them so I don't have to deal with the heartbreak of kicking them out :)
  • BeetleBeetle Member Posts: 46
    On the rare occasions when I ditch Jaheira and Minsc, it's because Charname has decided that they are in no shape emotionally to be running around adventuring. So they get time off to grieve while Charname recruits new people to rescue Imoen.
  • Durlag_ThunderaxeDurlag_Thunderaxe Member Posts: 71
    rdarken said:

    I think both Minsc and Jaheira are really annoying, to be honest. I usually march them into a house, up a flight of stairs, then boot them so I don't have to deal with the heartbreak of kicking them out :)

    Bah... you're clearly a pansy elf or pesky gnome! Too stuck-up to appreciate the honest strength and honour of Minsc and his extraordinary minature giant space hamster. A giant space hamster is rare, a minature giant space hamster is truly priceless!
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    I am exactly the same type of player as OP.

    However:

    1) Just because the player might personally be all fuzzy bunny about saving Imoen, doesn't mean that the character is. They could just as easily be about killing Irenicus and not caring about Imoen and her plight or how she is going to feel once she is rescued.

    2) Charname might be concerned that he has the most efficient squad to take out an obviously powerful and intractable enemy such that keeping Imoen's 'Pals' along for the ride might fall a bit below the mark in importance

    3) Who's to say that Minsc and Jaheira aren't forming their own parties to make a multi-pronged attack?

    4) Just because you travel together, doesn't mean that you like each other that much.

    5) Minsc can pluck the nerves at the best of times. And Jaheira constantly pining on about Khalid can really bring someone down.

    6) Jaheira has a perfectly valid reason for leaving the party at a certain point regardless of the reasons for being there in the first place.

    Just to name a few reasons.
  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660

    rdarken said:

    I think both Minsc and Jaheira are really annoying, to be honest. I usually march them into a house, up a flight of stairs, then boot them so I don't have to deal with the heartbreak of kicking them out :)

    Bah... you're clearly a pansy elf or pesky gnome! Too stuck-up to appreciate the honest strength and honour of Minsc and his extraordinary minature giant space hamster. A giant space hamster is rare, a minature giant space hamster is truly priceless!
    Nope, sorry - I play Human :)
  • elementelement Member Posts: 833
    edited August 2013
    fellow rp'er here,

    your character could have a bunch of reasons heres a few of the top of my head:

    1)maybe you feel guilty about there losses and dont want them to be part of the journey fearing it may cause them more harm

    2)maybe you feel the task is hopeless and want to spare them your fate

    3)maybe you dont want a harper in your group because you fear ulterior motives

    4)maybe your allergic to hamsters!

    but yeh i feel theres lots of good reasons to justify it remember just because they arent in charnames party doesnt mean they arent charnames friend or that they are completely out of contact with them




  • blackchimesblackchimes Member Posts: 323

    Amberion said:

    Wow, so you left her in the cage? You heartless bastard!

    But she doesn't exist (in my game). It's just an illusion that there is some irritating half-elf in a cage. I refuse to fall for that trap!
    How does Baldur's Gate Trilogy handle this? Will Jaheira and Minsc be in the Chateau even if you never had them in your party in BG?
  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    Depends on how I'm role playing, sometimes I used imoen, minsc and jahiera in bg 1 and use them in 2, sometimes I used them in 1, hated them and left the rot in 2. In one play through I was a racist elf who only recruited other elves, in another imoen scarred charname in childhood accident and kills her outside candlekeep. When she reappears in bg 2, I try killing her again, she runs off gets taken by irenicus and I vow to track her down and put her in the cold dark ground...for realsies
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    mjs said:

    Depends on how I'm role playing, sometimes I used imoen, minsc and jahiera in bg 1 and use them in 2, sometimes I used them in 1, hated them and left the rot in 2. In one play through I was a racist elf who only recruited other elves, in another imoen scarred charname in childhood accident and kills her outside candlekeep. When she reappears in bg 2, I try killing her again, she runs off gets taken by irenicus and I vow to track her down and put her in the cold dark ground...for realsies

    In one run through that I played, Imoen and Charname had a drunken one-nighter and things just got awkward after we found out the horrible truth.

  • ThunderSoulThunderSoul Member Posts: 125

    Okay, I'll preface this by saying I'm a rubbish gamer, my tactics are pretty much on-the-fly and I'm the screw it up. reload queen (yeah yeah, if anyone wants to teach me how to do this properly feel free) but the joy I get from playing this game is actually RPing it to the best of my abilities so I'm wondering how everyone justifies dropping Minsc and Jaheira from their parties before rescuing Imoen.

    The way I see it, aside from Charname these two characters are Immy's continuity and if you're seriously RPing this game, given what she goes through she's going to want to see some familiar faces when you finally liberate her from Spellhold so how do you justify dumping them before you get there (especially when both of them both have very good reasons for revenge - Khalid & Dynaheir).

    I never took Minsc, ever, in any of the playthroughs, BG1 or BG2. However, I agree with Jaheira. Who could let someone like her go! She's an awesome druid and a great friend. (I never took Minsc so that's why I don't feel anything for him).
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018


    I never took Minsc, ever, in any of the playthroughs, BG1 or BG2.

    Boy are you missing out. Minsc is a wonderful font of good fun.

  • kabkab Member Posts: 75
    In my game Imoen never even met either of them and CHARNAME killed Minsc in self defense. So justifying dumping them isn't so much an issue as trying to ignore the glaring continuity break.
  • kabkab Member Posts: 75
    edited August 2013

    How does Baldur's Gate Trilogy handle this? Will Jaheira and Minsc be in the Chateau even if you never had them in your party in BG?

    Yes, and even if they're both dead. BGT doesn't change much about the transition. It just adds a cut scene between the two games and keeps the stats and experience consistent.
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